Photographing Bears in the night...

[angelo_smaldo]

hy i need some tips about both Behavioral aspect and technical aspect

about photographing bears in the night in urban envirovment

 

i want start my next project(i m free lance and i want editorial

quality photos) in late spring in east europe (from balcans to

carpatian mountain)

where there are some cities where in the night go foraging in the

city (in the zone there are more then 7000 brown bears)

 

people go to see bears from just 2-3 meters (little dangerous i think)

 

by the way what i m thinking is:

 

better with or without flash?a my friend said resident dont are happy

with flash couse they think it scare bears (altough i see on a VHS

that a lot of guys and girls go with digicams nears bears to take

photo with flash)

 

i think flash is the best option

 

if not i have to take a very open lens (1.4 50mm)and using hight iso

with a monopode take pics

 

i dont know ?what i ll find , about what i saw in VHS there are

lights in the streets, but i dont know about how much

 

if with flash, it could be useful to use a slave flash to put where

they forage (garbage or other place) and use at not maximum power.....

 

or put on the top of the camera???

 

THE only problems is that my camera now a kodak DCS 760 (alias Nikon

F5 digital 6MP) has max iso about 400 iso, but i can underexpose to

have 800 -1600 iso , but about quality i dont know.

 

for now i have a sigma 70 200 F2.8 and a tamron 28 -105 f.2.8 SP(i

use it for cover professional italian basketball),but i m planning

to buy new lenses....first a good wide angle ,the old just sold.

 

with flash it will be more easy

 

or i use flash or i buy a second body with high iso performance (not

in nikon now....)so i have to buy a 20D or new 350D that has georgeus

iso performance at 1600-3200( ahh i have also a 50mm 1.8 canon in my

home now)

 

last question: about pepper spray for bears?where i can buy in italy

and how i have to use it?(brown bear in the zone are very big, i read

that was found there the biggest brown bears in the world :480kg)

 

thanx to all kind of advise

[stephen hazelton]

Flash vs no-flash- take the flash, take the monopod, when you get there, see what shutter speeds you can use without the flash, and that'll tell you right quick whether you need flash or not. And preferably do this while there aren't any bears around.

 

I would guess you'd have trouble getting a slave flash in the right place at the right time to do much good. Maybe having somebody else hold it off at an angle would work.

 

I know you can get glowing-eye syndrome with deer with a flash- and assume bears would be the same problem.

 

For pepper spray, try backpacking stores. You may have trouble finding it in any place that doesn't have a bear population. You probably can't carry it on a plane with you if you plan to fly to your destination, either.

 

Wandering around late at night with a camera in a strange city, dealing with people that approach bears too close...you might find that the people are more of a threat than the bears.

 

Be sure and have your will in order before you go. :)

[pvp]

In addition to carrying pepper spray, many people who work around brown bears will tie a number of small bells to their clothing so the bears will hear them coming.

 

Also, if you will be in an area that contains both brown bears and smaller black bears, it is a good idea to be able to identify them from their droppings (poop.) Black bear droppings contain lots of seeds and smell bad, while brown bear droppings contain many small bells and smell like pepper.

[stemked]

If you are more interested in behavior rather than quality photos I'd look into some of these super low-light products. I've seen Kiwi videos where the only light used was starlight!

[angelo_smaldo]

Hy stephen , yes i think it could be a problem to go in night with equipment, but as my fried that was there suggested, to take taxist as guide with we for the evening bear tours (yes they do it for tourist common:-)and if you are with a taxist that assist you u dont have problems

i have also contact with people who live there, this is very important and i m also contacting researchers who study this phenomen.

 

by the way as you saw i dont carry so costly equiment (i think is not safe go with a new D2x or eos 1DMII ,also lens i use sigma and tamrons

the risk is ust some hundreds euros

 

my other idea is to take with me my brothers Fuji S7000 (very good quality camera that produce 12MP files)is very compact and has a 210mm at 2.8 if i m not wrong,so the first days i ll carry that camera to look as a "normal"tourist to inspect the situation:-)

 

ps for pepper spray, how tu use it??

[mark_chappell]

<I>Also, if you will be in an area that contains both brown bears and smaller black bears,

it is a good idea to be able to identify them from their droppings (poop.) </i><P>

 

Ahhh.... this guy wants to work in eastern Europe, where there are no black bears (black

bears are in North America only). The Eurasian brown bear, <I>Ursus arctos</I>, is the

same species as the 'grizzly', 'brown', or 'Kodiak' bear in North America. <P>

 

<I>(brown bear in the zone are very big, i read that was found there the biggest brown

bears in the world :480kg)</i><P>

 

That's about average for male Alaskan coastal grizzlies, some of which get a lot bigger

(~600

-700 kg).

[angelo_smaldo]

hy Mark, no advise;-)?

 

only specifications?i know no black bear in EU,but i can understand why alaskan coastal "brown bear"is bigger then european brown bear.

 

i remember a my old post that you are very qualified,i waiting also your advices;-)

 

as you can see from my web site, i m a photographer specialized in cultural reportage,it will be my first nature wildlife reportage,i m very interested of human/animal - urban/wild envirovment encounters.

 

http://george-orwell.virtuale.org

[mark_chappell]

<I>hy Mark, no advise;-)?</I><P>

 

I don't know all that much about the details of bear behavior, but I would be extremely

nervous about photographing them at close range, especially at night with a flash, and

especially animals that are habituated to people (and hence aren't afraid of us). If I

<I><B>had</b></i> to do this, I'd get a longish lens (300 mm f2.8 or so; your 70-200/

2.8 might be fine), a DSLR with

high ISO capability (out to 1600), a flash

extender

(Better Beamer or similar), and take all my photos from inside a car, with the keys in the

ignition so I could leave <I><B>quickly</b></i> if necessary. <P>

 

I have no idea where you could get pepper spray in Italy... not sure how much good it will

do you at night, when you might not be able to see where to aim it.

[bonsignore_ezio]

Angelo, forget about getting TRUE pepper spray in Italy or any other EU country without a firearms licence. At the very maximum you could get (mild) tear gas, that wouldn't impress me that much if I was bent on doing harm to you and is completely useless on wild animals. And in any case, if you really want to get into serious trouble, just try to carry one of these things with you on a plane (cabin or checked baggage, it doesn't matter). Further, are you sure to you will be able to stand fast while a bear is charging onto you, waiting for it to come within spray range (2-3m)??? Bottom line = forget it, and just be careful. The above advice about shooting from inside acar makes a lot of sense.

[phyrpowr]

I think I'd have someone trained backing me up: trained with a large caliber rifle, and, oh yes, equipped with one

[angelo_smaldo]

this are enough big city, how do people when go out in the night while 20 or more bears forage in the city;)?

 

they carry a larger rifle;-)?

[j._scott_schrader]

Do your homework and learn everything you can about Brown

Bears. Fortunately for us we are not part of the food chain. We

can be a threat and a anoyance but certainly not a meal. ...Yes,

there have been news stories about those who have been

partially eaten by bears...and the ones that I have looked into

have all been people who were doing stupid things around

bears. Treadwell crawling around with them within arms length

...this shouldn't shock anyone that he was killed. ...Hoshino

made it a habit of eating, cooking and storing food in his tent. He

was eaten because he smelled like food! In my opinion these

news-makers were all living on borrowed time. They did not use

the appropriate etiquite in bear country. The best weapon is

knowledge and respect. I urge you to look at field guides, talk to

bear biologists, study their behaviors and posturing.....and most

of all never believe that the bears accept you as one of them.

You are human...they are bears...they can tell the difference...no

matter you you might want to think you are not one of them.

[mark_chappell]

<I> We can be a threat and a anoyance but certainly not a meal.</i><P>

 

I'm not such an optimist although your advice is excellent. Bears are very opportunistic

and they do (rarely) initiate predatory attacks on people. There was a highly unusual

example of a black bear attack in Great Smokey NP last year (IIRC), in which a woman was

killed and eaten by a female bear with cubs. It's not typical but I don't believe bears have

some innate or learned aversion to eating us (although most of them likely will go out of

their way to avoid people). Basically they're just big predators and like most big predators

(mountain lions, alligators, big pythons, lions, tigers, etc.), the occasional one will take it

into their head eat somebody -- especially if that 'somebody' does something stupid.

The one possible exception is North American wolves; I could be wrong but I don't think

there are any reliable records of non-rabid wolves spontaneously attacking people in this

hemisphere. The picture for wolves isn't so clear in Eurasia, however. <P>

 

Agree (strongly) that Treadwell was -- despite his apparently pure intentions -- asking for

it. He might as well have painted a target on his back and smeared himself with steak

sauce.

[herman_hiel]

Angelo, I don't know how wise it is to go around at night looking for bears. I have dived with sharks, been on safari very close to lions and all sorts of dangerous wildlife but always in the company of knowlegeable people, who's job it is to protect and guide their clients.

The suggestion of getting in touch with a biologist or someone with experience in this field makes a lot of sense.

Maybe you could consider another project...

[angelo_smaldo]

please look here and give your opinion especially on guy feeding bear

 

http://www.siemelink.com/romania_files/2july.htm

 

ps and for photographic tecnique, i hate that effect of flash....but there are other alternatives?

[mark_chappell]

<I>please look here and give your opinion especially on guy feeding bear</i><P>

 

My opinion: this guy is taking his life (or at least his arm) very casually. Stupid, stupid,

stupid. It looks like a young bear, which means the mother is probably close by,

making the situation even more dangerous.

[j._scott_schrader]

My opinion on the guy feeding the bear? He is an IDIOT. These

are exactly the kind of people who end up in the news after the

person is killed or mauled. Then...public outrage that the bears

are dangerous...then the bear will be hunted down and

killed....the other bears will be "relocated" or taken to a rehab

center. ...The bears haven't done anything wrong! It is the idiots

like the one in the photo that are the problem. It pisses me off to

see this kind of irresponsible behavior. It is detrimental to both

the bears and those of us who respect and appreciate wild

creatures.

[phyrpowr]

Re: the guy feeding the bear

 

We can only hope he thinks it's safe and does it again, tends to clean out the gene pool, don't ya know?

[matthew_green]

Angelo,

 

I can tell you about some bear behavior. I raised and trained (worked with) 3 North American Black bears and have also worked with Grizzles Kodiaks in direct contact not protective contact. I also have had experience caring for Yellowstone rehab Grizzlies along with Spectacle and Himalayan black bears. So I believe I can speak on bear behavior a bit.

 

Your question on photographing bears at night in an urban environment is very risky let me tell you. One, for the confined space that you will be working in there are only so many exit points and if the bear wants to leave you?re blocking one not to mention other people that add to the mix. Secondly bears that are habituated to people and feed on garage ?dump bears? can get very aggressive and their wild normal nature can turn to an unpredictable one. Of course 6.5 to 10 feet is not a safe distance for a wild animal I don?t care if it is a raccoon let alone a 600-700lbs bear. You are invading a personal zone that animals have just like humans a bear con become aggressive if you invade a zone of theirs. I would never even think to do this even with my experience.

 

First I want to tell you that documenting this problem which is very sad as it will result in death either a bear or people. I think you should take a photojournalist approach and tell a story as appose to just capture wildlife images. This is a powerful story and one that people need to know about. So it can stop.

 

Here are some options I think you can do:

 

First watch for a few days where the bears go and then preset your cameras with remote flashed use wide angle lends and pre stage them as you can capture close hand with out being there. Also do not use a flash if people are present try to use the street lights or house or some other source. Flashes are very stressful on an animal at night and in a confined space can cause problems.

 

Or you can use a long lens with remote flashes if no people around. I of course resommen fast film and a long lens a 400 2.8.

 

Angelo, on pepper spray unless you know how to use it you should not be handling it. First off bear spray is different then pepper stray I have used both and can talk about the differences. Bear Spray is pressurized 3 million times cyan pepper. If the wind shifts and as you spray you will get hit and you will instantly be on your knees throwing up. I promise you. So it is very effective but very dangerous in an urban environment with someone that does not know what they are doing or hoe to use it. Counter Assault is the only kind you should consider but I do not recommend you getting it for this trip.

 

Alan I hope you were joking about the bells. Those thinks are so stupid and do not work. If you are in an wilderness environment just talk to your partner and you do not need to shout or yell just talk normally and you will be fine bears have great hearing and a very powerful nose so they will be gone before you get there. Attacks happen usually from people traveling at a high rate of speed, on a bike, and come around a turn in the trail an there is a mother and cubs. Or if you sneak around the woods then you?re asking to get in some trouble.

 

Angelo the Taxi idea is pretty good if you can still keep a good distance get a window mount by Kirk and a long lens 400 2.8 and you should be good, stay in the car.

 

Mark about the black bears being only in North America that is not correct. Only North American black bears are in North America. Himalayan black bear (Asiatic Black Bear) are of course found throughout the eastern Asia, including Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Cambodia, China, India, Islamic Republic of Iran, Japan, Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Lao People's Democratic Republic, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, Pakistan, Russian Federation, Taiwan and Vietnam.

 

Jack your post about ?think I'd have someone trained backing me up: trained with a large caliber rifle, and, oh yes, equipped with one? is not wise at all. I do think Angelo you should have a local bear biologist or someone from the local park service there. But to have a rifle in a urban area is not wise. Plus you and all the others that are converging on these animals are causing the problem and the locals that feed the bear are actually causing the problem. A feed bear is a dead bear. Do not have a gun present stay far away and be safe. Adding a gun to a bunch of ignorant people is not smart.

 

J. Scott I agree one should do your homework and Angelo you of course should read up and know about the brown bear as I always do study a subject before I go in the field and document it. But your comments about the ?we are not part of the food chain? is of course technically correct bears are not man hunters but they do eat meat and a lot of it , they are omnivores and will most defiantly take out a threat and if you are a threat then one swipe of a paw can take down a full grown deer so they are very powerful animals and not respecting them and not realizing that you are in their environment not the other way around is a very stupid choice to make.

But J. Scott, your totally right about the last post you had about the bears doing nothing wrong so I am not sure what you where trying to say in the first post. Your totally right about the idiots that cause the problems.

 

Sorry for the long post but this is very important stuff. Angelo I hope this helps.

 

Matt

 

[mark_chappell]

<I>Mark about the black bears being only in North America that is not correct. Only North

American black bears are in North America. Himalayan black bear (Asiatic Black Bear) are

of course found throughout the eastern Asia, in...</I><P>

 

Correct, but there are no "black bears" of any kind in eastern Europe (outside of a zoo at

least).

[tom_walker1]

I quote from one post: "Hoshino made it a habit of eating, cooking and storing food in his tent. He was eaten because he smelled like food." The person who wrote this, in short, doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Michio was a personal friend of mine. I met him when he first came to Alaska in 1979. When very young he was a novice camper and learned to do things right. He was killed in Kamchatka while asleep in his tent at night - all the cooking was done in a cabin. He only slept in his tent. To compare him with Treadwell is a great disservice because Treadwell, who I also knew, was a loose cannon and doing things Michio never attempted or thought of. Get your facts straight before you disparage someone.

 

Tom Walker

[drc]

Angelo it is great that you are asking for advice. But don't even consider this. Brown bears are unpredictable at the best of times, habituated ones are akin to looking down the barrel of a loaded gun with a faulty hair trigger. They are going to go off sometime, you just don't know when.

 

 

J Scott Schrader <Hoshino made it a habit of eating, cooking and storing food in his tent> I have read every report i could get my hands on pertaining to this tragedy & have never come across this. Please share your source with us?

 

 

 

David Crossley/Crossley Photography....

[angelo_smaldo]

thanx to all

 

and for mattew:yes i think a photojournalistic approach is the best thing as you said

 

i think also that bears with a tradition of feeding from people like in the zoo or in that places in east europe could be dangerous if you dont forage them or they found the city without garbage or food,and could became aggressive really

 

for now no dead people (expect a woman that had a hearth attack seeing the bear out her door)

 

and people in the forest taking mushroom that met a female bear with anger (i dont know the exacly veterinary term)who killed 4 or 5 person,but not in the cities but in the forest in her wild envirovment

 

 

 

ps i m scanning new pics about romania and bears in urbans i found in a magazine about boys "joking"with bears and feeding with a bottle of milk

[mark_chappell]

<I>ps i m scanning new pics about romania and bears in urbans i found in a magazine

about boys "joking"with bears and feeding with a bottle of milk</i><P>

 

Perhaps for variety, they should take up something like "joking" with live hand grenades or

juggling angry cobras. All of these flavors

of "joking" offer the fun possibility of getting into serious trouble, very quickly.

[mat]

Hi Angelo!

 

It's a hard and dangerous project, and I think it's not a good idea to try it as a first wildlife photo project. You should consider to choose a less dangerous think.

But if you decided to to this....

 

You should know that there were some death, at least in the western Romanian region (Brasso, etc), which can be one of the "best" place for you. If I can remember good, last attacks were in December 2004, and there was on death. Even the rescue personels were attacked. Unfortunately finally the bear was shooted down.

 

These bears have little fear from us of course and they are surprisingly fast. It's much safer to photograph them from a car I suppose. You should avoid using flash, I think it's better for you as a photographer as well. If you try to use flash, you should use more than 1, and it's also a big problem. I don't think leaving ANY equipement out (even a cheap slave flash) without attendace is a good idea.

 

And don't forget the social part of the project. These countries and people are extremly pure. Don't think it's safe to be out in the night "only" with a Kodak DSC and third party lens! It can be a major problem in Romania, and even worse in other countries in the Balcan penninsula. Try to avoid "popular" bear places with many local people in the first time. The problem is not some 100s bucks to loose, but your life to save!

 

About pepper (better said bear) spray: I don't think you can buy this in Hungary (i'm quite sure) or Romania, but I don't know much about the other countries in the region.

 

So, think it again and if you feel you can do it, go for it. But do your homework, and don't forget to acclimatise yourself first with the people and wildlife!

 

I hope you can cope with the problems and can shoot a well-done report. It's a very sad story and would be good to know aboutit much more in a correct style.

 

You can contact me if you would like, i have friends in Romania.