Leica MP: Built for Extreme conditions.. how extreme?

[andy_piper2]

Paul:</p>

</p>

After I took <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/380526">THIS</a> picture, I turned around and my M4-P got blasted by one of the fountain's water jets (equivalent to a small fire hose). Soaked, droplets and fog inside the viewfinder, etc.</p>

</p>

Took it home, dried the outside, put it in a VERY slow oven (110 degrees F or so) for 4 hours with the bottom plate off and back open - and it was as if nothing had happened. Worked fine for 2 years before I sold it to get an M6.</p>

</p>

OTOH David Alan Harvey got his M6 hosed by a champagne bottle in Puerto Rico, and the camera was totalled (he said).</p>

</p>

I personally would take/risk any M but the -7 in most of the places I'd take a Nikon F/F2/FM2.</p> They aren't water-proof - but the gears can shrug off a certain amount of wet compared to electronic circuits.

[cheec]

Hi Stephen. I said titanium melting point is <i>well</i> past 1600F. That means Frank's

G2 when put in the crematorium oven over a short few minutes, should be ok but then it'll

just be an empty shell.

<p>

The most extreme conditions that I subject the old pentax 645 and xpan to, is sea water.

got splashed a few times, lost the cell phone, car keys but the cameras are still ok.

[max_fun]

Might be worth looking into the Contax S2; fully mechanical (batteries for metering only) and has weather seals. Couple with the amazing Zeiss lenses and you'll be left wanting nothing.

[claudia__]

get an antique Barnack Leica and some CV lenses. no batteries for the camera, just for a meter. i was able to load my IIIf in a Tasmanian rain forest in the rain (under an umbrella) so don't let the "hard to load" thing scare you off. i think the III series are cooler looking than all the rest (~_*)

[wai_leong_lee]

They said extreme, so probably means desert, cold, on top of mountains, in space, etc. Being all metal except for the glass and vulcanite parts, it can probably go through temperatures that humans and batteries wouldn't survive. That's extreme enough.

 

We all know it's not a weatherproof camera like the Canon EOS 1's so it's not meant to go underwater, in the rain, etc. Even if the camera is fine after drying out-- do you want to run the risk of your film getting wet?

[dennis_couvillion]

"They said extreme, so probably means... on top of mountains..."

 

...like where mountain goats live. So the question becaomes whether goats can stand the cold better than Leicas, right? ;>)

[frank granovski]

Extreme? Winnipeg in January; Winnipeg in July; Winnipeg during a tornado; Winnipeg under water (Spring time). There's also a desert 65 miles west of Winnipeg, it you need that type of extreme.

[Brad_]

The amount of bad information passed off as valid on this forum never ceases to amaze

me. The comment on the deterioration of plastics is just one of the latest. I have dozens

of consumer items made out of plastic, such as TVs, phones, cameras, hedge trimmers,

radios, glasses, computers, outdoor tables, electric power tools, clocks, printers, jars, and

on and on, that are greater than 20 years old with no deterioration.

[claudia__]

Brad just had to share this...thanks. no doubt it will make us all want plastic cameras (The Graduate is available on Netflix)

 

(~_*)

[Brad_]

No, I doubt it Claudia. However if you're really concerned about making photographs in

the rain and under "Extreme conditions," buying a couple of Oly Stylus film cams makes

more sense than a couple of MPs - and saves more than $6K. Unless of course the aim, as

William Faulk suggested, was to own a nice fashion accessory.

[Guest]

<I>I have dozens of consumer items made out of plastic, such as TVs, phones, cameras, hedge trimmers, radios, glasses, computers, outdoor tables, electric power tools, clocks, printers, jars, and on and on</i><P>So you're a collector, then? ;-)

[dennis_couvillion]

"The Graduate is available on Netflix"

 

LOL... (Claudia, I wonder how many people caught this...) ;>)

 

 

"I have dozens of consumer items made out of plastic... that are greater than 20 years old with no deterioration."

 

Brad, have any of these items ever benn removed from the original packaging? No deterioration whatsoever after 20 years? No wear? No discoloration? No microscopic changes? That is too ridiculous to even respond to...

[les_lammers]

Have a look at a Canon Sure Shot A-1. Waterproof, 32mm f3.5 lens. Nice big VF. I have had a Minolta Weathermatic for 14 years and it still works just fine.

[Brad_]

<I>Brad, have any of these items ever benn removed from the original packaging?

</I><P>

 

There you go again Dennis, putting up another silly argument that has nothing to do with

the poster's assertion - that deterioration makes plastics unsuitable in 5 years - which is

just silly. My claim wasn't no microscopic changes - but I think you knew that. As far as

wear goes on plastic, sure - but reasonable wear that doesn't degrade or hinder the use of

such items. What about the so-called brassing on leicas that supposedly proves one is a

real photographer - is that wear? Or do you fall in the other camp where having pristine

looks and finish is paramount?

 

Why not add some value and address the theme of the original post about having a camera

solution that will stand up reliably to the extreme conditions listed? Too difficult?

[Brad_]

<I>So you're a collector, then? ;-)</I><P>

 

Now, that is funny...<P>

 

No, but I don't throw stuff away that still works just because it's old. For example, I have a

25 year old TV that works and looks fine. Microscopic changes and all to the plastic - for

Dennis' benefit - I know he lives to play Gotcha...

[dennis_couvillion]

Settle down, Brad. You may want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills because no one said plastic products were unsuitable for use after five years. I understood the point that Rene was making and didn't need a fifteen page dissertaiton on the chemical breakdown of plastics to understand him.

 

But yet, once again, you choose to bash the entire forum over inconsequential nonsense. It's not enough for you to just disagree with what Rene said you have to add:

 

"The amount of bad information passed off as valid on this forum never ceases to amaze me."

 

If you would actually read what people say you would discover that what you consider to be "bad information' usually has some basis in fact and many times is simply a statement of opinion.

 

But, tell us what you really think about us, Brad... ;>)

 

Dennis

[peter_obaldo]

'...that may or may not live longer than a goat. ;>)'

 

Put a camera, any kind - plastic/titanium,battery/no battery in a room with a goat, guaranteed the goat will live longer ....

[Brad_]

<I>I understood the point that Rene was making and didn't need a fifteen page

dissertaiton on the chemical breakdown of plastics to understand him.</I><P>

 

No, but then why did the no changes at the microscopic level seem to be such an

important point with you? Or were you just playing your typical game of Gotcha? Add some

value to the discussion and propose a solution. It's not that tough...

 

With respect to bad information, without even having to delve into digi-vs film debates,

one can always expect to see gems, such as the recent claim the music industry today

largely using analog recording to tape.

[william_todd_faulk]

One commodity that this forum does not lack is the capacity to spin an interesting and genuine query into an inane circus of the clinically insane.

 

The man is planning on attending 'Burning Man', and inquired about durable cameras. Not about molecular structure of various plastics, not about metals fatiguing under stress or about the movie "The Graduate", nor did he specify vacationing in such god forsaken localities such as Winnipeg.

[dennis_couvillion]

"Put a camera, any kind - plastic/titanium,battery/no battery in a room with a goat, guaranteed the goat will live longer ..."

 

LOL..

 

Peter, we may have stumbled upon a new marketing slogan for Leica (I hope Solms is reading this):

 

"LEICA! Tough as a goat!" ;>)

 

Let me share this observation...

 

I'm sure my M6 is a durable camera... but I've always regarded my older Leicas (M2 and M3) as "tougher"... and treated them accordingly. Maybe the heavier brass construction and vulcanite finish has something to do with it. I found myself less reluctant to throw an M2 or M3 around (or even a IIIF) than I did my M6, which just doesn't "feel" as heavily constructed. "Perception" may have something to with what we are talking about. There are indeed very durable space-age plastics but sometimes they may not give the same feel as a more heavily constructed metal instrument. When Leica decided to construct the MP in brass perhaps they were attemting to re-create that "feel" of durablity and the confidence it instilled in the owner with respect to the construction of the camera.

 

Regardless, generally speaking, Leica makes a tough, durable camera. I don't think anyone is saying Leica makes the toughest camera ever known to man... but if one is cataloguing tough cameras I think you'd have to put Leica in that group. The question is whether a hobbyist wants to expose his expensive MP to extreme conditions that might cause wear and tear to the camera. I don't care how tough the camera is, plastic or brass, extreme conditions are likey to cause wear and tear. In that regard, cheaper (more disposable cameras) may be a better choice for amateurs for limited use in extreme conditions. However, if I was a professional on assignement in extreme conditions I wouldn't hesitate to bring an MP or an M3.

 

Gotta run... going shopping for a new goat. ;>)

 

Dennis

[brambor]

Brad, you offer no evidence to the contrary. Your post is empty.

 

I am not prepared to write a dissertation of plastic chemical process. Also, I did not want to delve into details as it wasn't 100% on topic in this post. I said in my previous post that it is probably something we should discuss as another topic in a separate post.

 

My experience is not only with cameras but with other everyday items. Whenever I was researching certain purchases, I have read many times about the breakdown of plastic when exposed to air and sun. For example a kayak. After about 5 years of use you still have the same kayak but the plastic no longer springs to form like it used to when new. It looks a little like a plastic banana on the roof rack and it does not perform in the waves the way it used to. The surface of plastic over time is no longer smooth and shiny. That is because of the chemical breakdown. The plastic slowly changing it's chemical structure. It is slowly evaporating. It becomes brittle, not elastic as it used to be...

 

From my personal experience in mechanical devices that use combination of metal and plastic parts it is the plastic parts that break first. Wear and tear on a plastic coupled with aging chemical process will make that happen.

 

Yes, plastic will last for centuries but not in the same shape. After a few years it looks like crap and crap it remains for the other 100 years in the landfill.

[dennis_couvillion]

"One commodity that this forum does not lack is the capacity to spin an interesting and genuine query into an inane circus of the clinically insane."

 

LOL.. you're right. But it cracks me up to hear someone assert that they have a collection an extraordinary collection of plastic household goods over twenty (20) years old that are impervious to the natural break-down that occurs with chemical compounds... and then assert that the forum is a bastion of bad information. Cracks me up... ;>)

 

Anyway... it's silly to argue over stuff like this.

 

Dennis

[Brad_]

And Rene, where is your <I>evidence</I>?

[brambor]

The fact that plastic deteriorates with age is such a common knowledge Brad, I didn't think I had to. Here is an decent excerpt from one link I found on google:

 

Some consumers prefer plastic because it won?t rust and it doesn?t require the sort of maintenance steel does. Plastic doesn?t last forever; however, despite its rust-free nature it does deteriorate. Plastic gives off ?free chlorides? in a process that begins the day the item is manufactured. Over time, as free chlorides are released, the plastic becomes more brittle.

 

Plastic that loses its flexibility will eventually crack. While oxidized steel can be repaired - brittle and broken plastic cannot. Plastic disintegrates and there?s not much that can be done to stop the process. Plastic has its place in the home and is perfect for certain items. When you?re considering a major purchase, weigh the useful life of the product against the initial cost and long-term maintenance.

[Brad_]

And Dennis' constructed straw men are even more hilarious, putting words in others'

mouths and putting forth arguments that are just plain silly - but that's what he lives for -

the Gotcha!. Maybe he's a lawyer? He does have a very keen eye for microscopic

breakdown in plastics, though... And for insults for when things get tough...

 

And, taking issue with the bad information claim, he no doubt agrees to the notion that

music

today is recorded using analog tape.