Price of used medium format lenses bottomed out?

[photom]

Is it my imagination or has the price of lenses started to drift back

up slighly or at least holding steady? I have been looking for a

newer 65mm lens for my RZ and KEH has not shown one available for a

few months. I recall seeing them rather frequently earlier in 2004.

At least for this camera it seems like the downward drift in prices

has stopped. Anyone else notice a trend?

[eric friedemann]

This could be part medium format film making a come back of sorts. In Vivid Light, Jim McGee recently wrote:

 

 

"(W)hen I'm shooting for the magazine where deadlines and workflow are most important, I shoot digital. When I'm shooting for myself or for my personal image archive, I shoot film, either slides or negatives as the occasion dictates. In some cases I've shot both - so I'd have the digital images for the magazine and the slides for my personal use.

 

 

It turns out I'm not the only one who's come to this conclusion. Unreadable CDs and the cost of moving digital images every eighteen months to new hardware have now burned many photographers. The result? Fuji reports that while consumer film sales continue to decline, professional film sales have increased dramatically in the past year. Professional photographers are expressing their concerns with their wallets. As a result, Fuji is focusing heavily on creating a workflow based around shooting film, scanning and post processing."

[Aoresteen]

I've been watching Hasselbald prices on ebay over the last 2 years and I would agree that prices have leveled off. Items that are in low demand with high availablity are still dropping. Example: I just bought a used A24 back for $99 in exec shape. Most Buy it Now offers are at least double that. 70mm backs are now around $75.

 

Other items that are in demand (150mm, 50mm lenses), recent bodies, newest E backs and the SWC/m all have remained fairly consistant over the last 9 months. As supply get readjusted to demand I would expect to see prices rise a bit as price increases from Hasselblad & others start to take effect.

 

There has never been a better time to buy MF equipment than now.

[tarashnat]

Tom,

 

Someone had once made the observation that prices bottom out in the winter and get

higher in the summer on top of the more general trends.

 

Taras

[mike_elek]

I think the mass-hysteria move to digital has bottomed out. The market may have found a settling point, given current technology.

 

And there is supply and demand. I think we've all seen a large jump in the number of first-time MF users right here. That's encouraging.

 

On the pro side, some photographers may not enjoy being the photographer and the lab. While you get ultimate control, that comes in the form of time. And time is money. There's something to be said about dropping off 10 rolls and picking them up the next day for review, as opposed to sorting through 500 RAW images, toning each, resaving as TIFFs and burning to two CD's (one for client, one for the photographer's archive).

 

But there will always be more technology, not less. So whatever shape this takes, it's very possible that film will become a niche artistic form, just like painting and cave drawing before it. I still like the Flintstone's idea of an instant photo (bird inside a box chiseling an image on a stone tablet).

[zachariah_edwardson]

I am a rank newbie when it comes to photography, let alone MF, but I am thankful for the drop in prices, as it allowed me to have fun in 6x6. Though I have not looked long enough on ebay and other site s to really see any change in upswing (or downswing) of the price of equipment.

[simonpg]

My guess is that they have shown signs of firming up in the past 6 months. I got a couple of insane bargains mid last year and they are just not around now. Possibly the "dumping" has run its course and even some pros are getting back in (a few pro dealers have seen these signs in LF especially). But the signs are in pockets of the market. Here in Australia there is an excess of Mamiya and Bronica gear around, but good Hasselblad and Rollei is getting harder to find.

 

Similar signs in LF too.

 

Glad I moved in 3 years ago as I'd find it much harder to afford now!

 

I do still find that KEH continues to have good value, but the stock levels are much lower now.

[OCULUS New York]

I have been running digital SLRS for 5 years and came back to film--in a big way--Rolleiflex. Shooting more film than ever, but for journalistic needs, I fire up the Oly E-1. Everything for ME is usually film, although I sold my first digital pieces this past fall.

 

I think there's room for both, and we will see a leveling. Now, I'm looking for an AF Rolleiflex to ease the pressure on tiring eyes. There's always a market....

 

Cheers,

Ray Hull

[scott_eaton]

Given the general pain in the neck that's incurred with scanning film, and then spending hours dust spooting and otherwise screwing around spending more computer time than ever, I still get baffled at these responses about how shooting MF film is less hassle than digital.

 

If I may ask a polite and objective question, how much does a quality MF/drum scanner cost compared to a digital camera, and how many of you require the assistance of somebody at a lab somwhere to do the printing for you? I look at the workflow required to get a decent color print from my RB and slide/print film vs my 10D, and the 10D wins. I don't have a color darkroom in my basement, and I didn't get into this hobby to be a slave to somebody else making print decisions for me. I'm also not into creating boxes of 6x7 slides I can't do anything with {shrug}.

 

I still think MF lenses are absurdly over priced. Given quality wide angle shooting is such a pain in the neck with sub full frame dSLR, it's what I primarily use my RB for. Still, a decent 50mm for my RB costs more than what I can get an entire Fuji 6x7 Rangefinder system for, and the Fuji has better optics.

 

Prices have stalled because dealers have already lost their money - not because digital has lost demand or film sales are increasing. Camera dealers have dropped prices to the point they could care less how long it takes to sell the gear as long as they have a lease on the space where they can keep it boxed till somebody wants it. Conventional supply chain economics and not some fantasy about film making a comeback.

[eric friedemann]

Scott-

 

 

1. In the last year, I've had to take a number of family group shots with ten or more subjects to be enlarged to a 14 inch width or wider. If you think a 6MP DSLR would be better for such images than a 6x7 cm piece of color negative film, we'll have to disagree.

 

 

Sure, it'd be great if it were cost-effective for me to spend $20K or more on a digital MF system. Maybe I'll try the Nikon D2X when they ship and will find it to be an adequate replacement for my Mamiya 7IIs from a standpoint of resolution. But to date, if I know I'll want to make big prints, I'll shoot 6x7 cm film over my D100s.

 

 

2. I think one point you skipped over is the photograper having a stable original image. Obviously, there have been numerous posts on p.net and elsewhere about the questionable archival stability of CD-Rs and DVD-Rs and/or how often images may have to be changed from drive or other storage medium to another over a period of years to keep up with changing computer operating software, so that the images can still be accessed. I have decades-old films that I can scan and print with no problem.

 

 

3. There is no fantasy about MF film. As is noted above, Fuji has reported that its 120 professional films are a stable, vital market. At my store, 120 film sales have remained steady over the last few years and aren't fading.

 

 

All-in-all, MF film cameras are an attractive alternative to high-priced, 35mm-style 6MP DSLRs. I'm not married to my MF film cameras, but I'm not selling them yet either.

[simonpg]

It's about the users' need and choice of media rather than best or even the format.

 

As with film, MF digi is ahead of 35mm digi - bigger imaging.

 

It's a question of media and equipment cost (for the near future anyway) - which media suits your needs better and is the cost affordable. But in any format, the equipment cost of digi at a level comparable to the same format's film media alternative is still huge. For pros the workflow issues also come into the cost and need equation.

 

It's certainly not an issue of 35mm digi versus MF. However, for all we know that could change in years to come.

 

But as ever, LF enables the largest image printing, then comes MF and then 35mm, regardless of media used - "horses for Courses".

[jonathan_brewer1]

I struggled for quite some time with dust on my negatives and the issue of scanning those negatives and then spending an inordinate amount of time removing dust/cloning out hairs, I complained at some point w/my lab about the 'soup' they were using, the owner of the lab put his ego aside and suggested we put out heads together to try to solve the dust and hair problem.

 

We put out heads together, the answer to 99% of my problems with dust and hairs was of course static electricity, I've always blown my negative w/gentle air, and then applied film cleaner if needed. I now clean my negs the way the lab does it, first w/gentle air, the w/ilford static cloth, cleaned this way, most of my negs can be scanned with little or no time wasted on dust and hairs.

 

The rest of this has been hashed and rehased ad nauseum, ad infinitum, and a couple of folks read posts like this at night, stick their head out and see the full moon and go nuts, nobody needs to understand why anybody else uses what they choose to use.

 

My reason for sticking w/film-scanning is that I have mult-format gear, I can scan any of my negs from any camera, and it doesn't squeeze my wallet, but I digress.

 

One pleasant thing about this is that this subject seems to be discussed with less flame throwing nowadays.

[photom]

Nobody would argue that it is easier to use direct digital capture in terms of time savings (although I rarely have dust problems by using a hand blower and a quick clean along with ICE).

 

One thing that I like about med. format film is when I want to keep a lower priced camera to kick around with, such as keeping in the back of my car. Theft scares me to death with higher priced digital SLR equip. (including the download equip. that is often with it). The other thing a like about it is that you can still have the reliability of pure manual operation. No electronic connection with lenses, auto focus, etc. to screw up and need repair.

 

I did notice that Epson/Cosina is trying to come out with a 6 MP digital rangefinder with manual operation. I wonder if this will be successful. I have not heard that it is available yet and it is a bit over-priced.

[david_m]

Film is on the way out and nothing will stop it. These value drifts are probably fantasy but even if true are just a temporary blip. One by one the MF camera manufacturers will all go out of business or convert to other product lines. Kowa and Bronica have already done it. It's supply and demand. We can only hope the supply dries up, but professional MF gear tends to last a long time and if no-one wants it, prices will eventually drop precipitously.