recommendation on everyday use of kiev 2 camera

[j_h]

since a few months i am experimenting with kiev camera's, because i

am new with kiev i started reading articles on internet, it seems

that the older models (built before 1955) are the best built camera's

 

but are these older camera's also good enough for daily use, or is a

newer model kiev4 or kiev4-am (overhauled or serviced) as good as a

kiev 2 model??

[Andrew in Austin]

Yes, the older cameras are doable in so far as every day shooting goes. While I'm not a KIEV / Contax owner I do have a 1954, Zorki 3 which travels with me in a bicycle pannier. It ain't perfect. Doesn't permit the use of any type of flash unit. It does however usually get the shot.

 

Here are two examples.<div></div>

[Andrew in Austin]

The lens use was an old collapsible Industar 22 and I called it a Sunny 8 type of day. It was one of thoses days which the overcast skies were breaking up. The snaps were definitely spur of the moment.<div></div>

[Andrew in Austin]

My built before 1955 trio. Notice the 5cm finder on the 6x9 Record III, which makes it much easier to compose.<div></div>

[mskovacs]

I think with a proper overhaul, all of the Kievs are equally good for use as a daily shooter. The fit and finish of the early Kievs is better than the later ones, though still shy of a Zeiss Contax II or III.

 

Which model of Kiev are you shooting with now?

[nicolas_douez]

Older 1950's Kievs 2 and 3 tend to get sold for more and more (very unrealistic prices).

 

Yes that's true they generally are much better built than very later ones. But keep in mind that in a very old Kiev, you will get very old grease changed in black graphite powder and expanded everywhere in the camera body, very old shutter ribbons, mostly a dead lightmeter if it's a Kiev 3 or an early Kiev 4, and also rust.

 

So the best deal might be a 1959-1969 Kiev 4 or 4A. Old enough to be well built (and still quality controlled before it left the factory) but not too old yet, so that you might get a +/- reliable working shutter with decent ribbons.

 

With later models, it might be a lotery actually. I had a 1976 Kiev 4A-M that was terrible.

 

Now I have a very nice and very well working 1971 Kiev 4A.

 

Read the good Kiev Survival Site pages at :

 

http://www3.telus.net/public/kaylalyn/index.html

 

Take your time and buy it from a reputable Ukrainian seller on ebay. You can find a very well working model for around $25.00 plus $15.00 shipping. With a 2/50 Jupiter-8 of course.

[marco_vera1]

Yes, do buy a pre 1955 Kiev and use it everyday. The cameras are VERY close in quality to

the prewar Contax and the the extra $50to75 over the newer Kievs is well worth it.

 

Keep in mind that when using most classic cameras daily little things might go wrong and

need attention, but don't waste any CLA money on Kiev-4's!

[j_h]

mike, i have a kiev-2 (1953) and a kiev 4am (1983)

[william_barnett_lewis]

I use a 1977 Kiev 4a and a 1972 Kiev 5 daily. They are both solidly built cameras that are far less expensive than what early Kiev 2s are going for these days. That being said, with a bit of care in looking, you can still find deals. I have a $29 1954 Kiev 2 somewhere in shipping.

 

It's more important to buy the camera from a reputable dealer than worry too much about the year of production. Any Kiev can be a good camera and any can be a dog. The only thing I think that can be said with accuracy is to avoid a pristine Kiev. If it's too pretty, then it's probably because it sat in a drawer someplace because it probably never worked. If you want to use the camera, get one that has been used instead.

 

William

[mskovacs]

Oh you have both a 1953 and 1983? You are the best person to answer your question :) If I were to spend money on a Kiev overhaul, I'd fix the older one. On the other hand, as a daily shooter, maybe the hot shoe flash synch and rewind crank is worth more to you. I've fixed Kievs myself but they require a LOT of hours to really do a proper job. Both of the Contax II's I own were purchased with a prewar Sonnar for around $100, i.e. less than many Kiev II's go for on ebay.

 

I have to disagree with Nicolas. The difference between 1953 and 1969 is not enough to matter because they should both have a proper CLA.

 

PS: That's a Kiev II (Roman Numerals like Contax). The next model in the series is called the 2A, differing by addition of flash synch.

[nicolas_douez]

Ha ! Let us clarify Mike ;-)

 

My situation then with the Kievs I successively & recently bought (well, that's enough for me now ;-) :

 

- Kiev 4A-M, 1976 : working at high speeds, not working at slow speeds, shutter catch problem, VF/RF fine, ST working, flash synch. working, loosy lens mount, no take-up spool, ribbons broke after 1 month

 

- Kiev 2A, 1956 : working at high speeds, not working at slow speeds, flash synch. not working (unsoldered), VF/RF very good, body full of rust, congealed grease and graphite powder (got an eye disease), ST sticky, soiled leather but no bumps, ribbons broke very quickly, no take-up spool

 

- Kiev II, 1952 : working at 2 upper high speeds, not working at all other speeds (and got jammed when I tried at B), filthy VF/RF, ST working, no take-up spool, lens mount excellent, very nice leather and chrome, gave it back to seller on the following day (bought on a week-end photo fair) and bought, instead :

 

- Kiev 4A, 1971 : very well working at all speeds, VF/RF excellent,

ST working, flash synch. working, lens mount binds with other lenses than the Jupiter-8 (now it's fixed), plastic take-up spool, very nice leather covering on front, but vinyl covering on back (now replaced by the black leather covering of the 2A)

 

- Kiev 4, 1959 : excellent RF/VF, ST a bit slow, shutter very well working at all speeds but slight catch adjustment problem (now it's fixed), lens mount perfect, lightmeter perfect (working and accurate), original metal take-up spool, leather bumps everywhere, now covered with a red lizard custom kit :-), from far the best of all, and the cheapest (bought on Eastbay for $29.00, quickly came from Ukraine for $15.00 more)

 

So : I probably was not the most lucky with my Soviet bears, but at least I have now two well working Kievs, and a lot of spare parts, for the future...

 

:-)<div></div>

[mskovacs]

1960 Kiev 4A - fully functional, dirty, bug in viewfinder, bumps, stiff focus

 

1936 Contax II - filthy but fully functional, flash synch added, bumps, stiff focus

 

1938 Contax II - not too dirty, working accurately at all speeds, self timer jammed, bumps, stiff focus. 97 was engraved inside speed dial and shutter frame, probably indicating 1997 CLA. (straps look new)

 

I also CLA'd a couple of other Kiev 4As for a friend. I think they were 1970's models, one a type I, one a type II. Again, the shutters were good but there were other issues such as improperly shimmed lens mounts. One had a rangefinder cam that was poorly cast and needed some filing. (Contax is machined)

 

I guess my viewpoint is tempered by working with Contax cameras that are another 10-15 years older than the Kiev II. They almost all need some sort of work after 30+ years. All of these cameras are now in top shooting condition with bumps removed. I have a good technique worked-out now for dealing with Zeiss bumps if you haven't tried fixing yours.<div></div>

[gary_turner1]

I have the Kiev II, 4A, 4AM plus a few collectible Contaxes. The Kiev 4A (1965) looks to be the nicest of the Kievs in my opinion. The II (1955) is my collectible, the 4AM (1982) is the shooter that looks new, works fine and takes great photos. 4AM Cost: under $50 w Jupiter J-8 lens and that included shipping via eBay auction. Maybe I lucked out? The ones I now have all appear to work at every shutter speed although the timer delay is now jammed on the 4A. All were acquired for $25 to $60. Based on my limited experience I would not hesitate to buy and use a newer Kiev. That said I understand others have had bad experiences. Contax reliability would appear to be not so great either based on the descriptions of many being sold on eBay. Tons of inexpensive Kievs out there to pick from. Got to be a lot of good ones in the bunch.

[nicolas_douez]

Ooooooohh please Mike don't be of such a crualty, as my first Contax II with its collapsible 2/50mm prewar Sonnar is still taken apart in the cupboard with an inoperative shutter despite some new ribbons (must have another problem), and "my" (well, it's fully mine, as I paid for it) second Contax II with its 1.5/50mm prewar Jena Sonnar has probably been stolen in the mail and now in the hands of someone who has no idea of this thing's value...

 

About the bumps, yes, [brecknell saddle soap + a smooth toothbrush + one night under the Encyclopaedia Britannica] makes a good cocktail.

Here is what my heavily bumped Contax IIa back looks like now.

 

The red lizard covering for the Kiev 4 is a gimmick, and might be removed one day... and well, I like it.<div></div>

[mskovacs]

Nice looking job on the IIA! I wanted one of these but the vertical allignment and 1/1250 issues that many experience (recurrently) are holding me back. (that and they are &*(&% expensive!)

[nicolas_douez]

Mike, don't stop at that : RF vertical alignment problems are not so often met on a IIa (and it is not the hardest problem on a RF : an horizontal disalignment is much more fuzzing while composing the picture), and for the @=~%* 1/1250s problem, well try to think of how often you shoot at 1/1000 or even 1/500 with other cameras. On mine, yes that ?*]=@* 1/1250s still does not work, but now 1/500 works perfectly, as well as all the other speeds, so I do not mind actually.

 

Regarding the IIa prices, well it's true to say that they are something unreasonably climbing : I wonder if the growing interest at this camera the sellers could read at Classic Camera forum might not be partly responsible of that situation :-)

[peter_4711]

Hello,

yes is true KIEV-2 rangefinder are near to the Zeiss Contax rangefinder cameras included like my KIEV- 2 export model with

3 engravings in the attachment shoe.

Please remember KIEV cameras and lenses are don't copys the are produced on genuine Zeiss machines in first time, a result of WW II repair cost that Germany destroyed the UdSSR.

So the pre-war Contax camera have a new birth with a name called KIEV a big city in the Ukraine.

Please remember too,KIEV rangefinder cameras are long time runner 1947-1987, against the genuine pre-war Contax with a low quantity and a high priced.

The Contax IIa and IIIa are produced 8 years in West-Germany only, and the are everyone hand made,and with an different shutter that maked Zeiss many problems. The lubrication problems of

Contax IIa and IIIa are with KIEV models unknown, but only for the russian lenses with the out bajonett fitting or helical that can to dry.

 

Is true the KIEV long time runner that included later a quality problem, but a overhauled KIEV is an hard photographic worker.

Today you can't buy a rangefinder with a extremly rangefinder base, like the KIEV and pre-war Contax, of nominal 11cm and real 9,5 cm.

 

The modern Leica M 7 and MP included a mirror rangefinder that value

are under the KIEV/Contax rangefinder base.

Kiev and all Contax rangefinder without Contax I will work with a precise prism rangefinder.

 

I liked all my KIEV rangefinder models.

 

peter

[bacsa]

Jelke...So you did not sell your Kiev II '53 in the end?:) I was the one who asked a question about it; next time I went back to the marktplaats, it was already gone.

[j_h]

hi csab'józsa, the world is very small............, it was one off my two kiev 2 camera's

[rick_beckrich1]

Please let me second the notion of a CLA for all KIEVs

no matter which year or model. My 4am (CLA by Oleg at

OKvintagecameras) works every bit as smoothly as my

early 4a. Both produce negs as good as my N*k*n gear

(OK, so maybe with a little more work).

;o)

Rick

[zhang_xk]

This seems the place to show off ones' treasures. Now this is only part of my kiev gears collection. These are the same kind of precision intruments as those Zeiss microscopes.<div></div>

[ruben_bittermann2]

<p>The basic problem of the Kiev rangefinders is the illusion of the buyer that in exchange of $100 (2014) he will get a working camera. <br>

It is the same with a $300 or $ 400 Contax. With both rangefinders what you are buying at those ridiculous prices are bricks in their way to the repairman. It cannot be otherwise taking into consideration the age of both cameras, and the level of knowledge required to operate them, which many times is the source of the problems you inherit from the previous user.<br>

It is true that there are exceptions in which you get a rough working camera. <br />But on those prices you will not get a top notch camera. In order to get a top notch camera you must know beforehand what should be working, and this implies first of all an additional knowledge of the many many features of the Kievs and Contaxes. For this level of knowledge you will have to make some research, as the information in the manuals is more or less to prevent you from ruining the camera at your very first roll.<br>

What you do can expect at least is that the camera after being sent to a good repairman will not have issues, specially with the very delicate shutter mechanism. Up to this point everything goes equal both for the Kievs as for the Contaxes.<br /><br /><br>

The status of the Kiev user and the Contax user vis a vis having a top notch camera is different. It is easier to have a full and decent and honest CLA from Mr Henry Scherer, www.zeisscamera.com, given several hundred dollars and time to wait. The issue here is having enough money. Other repairmen you cannot be sure they will tell you have bought a Kiev in Contax clothes, and will do the CLA anyway, and at a lower level in any case. Since the Contax market is very very profitable, hidden traps are waiting at next corner, one after the other. <br>

The problem of the Kiev user is that no one performs a full CLA, even not a non-decent one, no matter what the seller claims. After that, no repairman offers CLA to the Kievs, no matter what they advertise. Once you start asking deeper, the repairmen will confirm what I am saying, Or will pose as he takes offense from you, for not trusting him blindly despite his 40 years knowledge in how to reap you.<br>

Vis a vis the decent Kiev repairman, who will gently answer your detailed questions, specially "what exactly your CLA includes, what do you check ? ", you have to tell him exactly what do you want to repair. No CLA available. In exchange of the little money you pay (compared to the Contax CLA, after all they are the same mechanism, and the same work-time) you cannot expect otherwise. Therefore the Kiev user, in order to have a top notch Kiev must be even more knowledgeable than his fellow Contax, and do some minor works by himself.<br>

To complain about the defects of those cameras after paying cheap and not sending them to a repairman, it is a bit of practical no-sense.<br>

As for which Kiev model to buy, the issue again is the repairman and your knowledge of what should be checked. The list is not short.<br>

Now that you hear me "knowledge, knowledge", you can make better sense of the meaning that these are professional cameras. The meaning is not the professional wedding photographer, but technical knowledge. You may not have the talent to fix the camera yourself, but you must know what it is about.<br>

Nevertheless, here are there, there are Kiev 4 cameras never used since manufacture, that will astonish you if you get them. But you have to be lucky and concentrate your attention on models from the decade of the 60. Most of them, of the relatively few being sold at the same low price, will have non working meters, and this should be no issue at all for you. The issue is to have a fine mechanism. Pay great attention to the cosmetics in order to select those new-from-Arsenal beauties. Here is where the real lottery exists.</p>

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