Does anybody know what this is?

[jon_noble]

Ive got this camera available to me. I need to know what film it uses

and a rough estimation on getting mould removed from lens and fix the

shutter so that T+B modes can be used.

 

Any help would be gratefully recieved

[conrad_poulin]

I'm poking around the internet for info. So far I think pre ww2

Zeiss Ikon folder, 120 film 6x9. ( I know it marked zeiss ikon). I

could not find an exact match. Have you opened the back to find

any printing or a takeup spool. I assume of course you checked

carefully for film. If I find more info I will post it.

[tito sobrinho]

It is a roll film camera from the 20s or 30s. Any marks on the camera which you can read? For B & T, you don't need to cock the shutter. Use B and or T on the speed dial and after that, just press the release lever i.e one time for B and twice for T.

[glenn_thoreson]

Don't know what the camera is but I can offer a little help on the shutter. Do NOT try to cock the shutter for using T and B. Looking at the front of the shutter, there is a small disk on the left with three marks on it, which vary by age, country of origin, etc. When the disk is turned all the way clockwise, it should be on the T setting. Use the trip lever one time to open, second time to close, WITHOUT cocking. Center symbol on the disk is B. Hold the trip lever down to hold the shutter open and release it to close. Again, without cocking. This is very important, as if you try to cock the shutter for T&B, and apply force, you will severely damage the shutter. Turn the disk all the way counter clockwise for timed speeds, which are set by the dial on the top. Set the speed, cock the shutter with the lever on the right and trip to expose. Do not move the speed dial to high speed settings with the shutter cocked or you will damage the shutter. There you have it - now go take some nice photos and enjoy.

[silent1]

The camera is most likely for 3A format, 9x14 cm on 122 film (not available in a long time), but judging by the Plate and Film focus range settings on the (camera's) left side of the bed, opposite the focusing lever, probably originally had a plate back as well as the roll film capability. There are, of course, film sheaths available for the plate backs on these cameras, allowing use of cut-down film. It should also be relatively simple to adapt to use of (still available) 9x12 cm sheet film.

 

I can faintly make out a Ziess-Ikon emblem on the bed (near the end, between the focus rails), as well as on the shutter. There weren't a lot of possible Ziess-Ikon 3A models to choose from; this should narrow it down a bit. Lever focus narrows it down still more; this is a feature I associate more with Voigtlander than Zeiss-Ikon, who were more likely to use rack focusing even on their lower end cameras.

 

The other side of the lens from what we can see in this photo will give the lens type (on the outside of the lens rim), likely either a Novar-Anastigmat or a Tessar; the former is good, and the latter excellent. The front and middle elements are relatively easy to take apart for cleaning, and unless the fungus is advanced, it can likely be removed without damage -- this uncoated lens would only be harmed if fungus etched the glass. If the lens is a Tessar, however, the rear element is a cemented pair, and if fungus has gotten between those elements, all bets are off.

[mfophotos]

Looking at the latest McKeowns' on page 1039 I see a Zeiss Ikon Cocarette, 1926-1930.

It says rollfilm is loaded by removing the winder and film track from the side of the

camera, somewhat like a Leica (The back does not open), also made in plate format. 64

different lens/shutter combinations. Variations include #207 (5x7.5 cm), #209 - 6x9 cm,

etc. etc., $45-70...

[mfophotos]

Or maybe it's a Nixe, 1927-34. Double extension folding camera, Nixe on handle or in

body leather. 8x10.5 cm rollfilm, or 9x12 cutfilm, or 8x14cm rollfilm, or 9x14cm cutfilm,

$70-120. Man, Z-I made more cameras than anybody...except Kodak.

[mfophotos]

After looking more carefully, I am pretty sure it IS a Zeiss Ikon Nixe.

[Troll]

That neat lettle gadget on the near side of the front bed is a little doojigger

which shifts the lens just a smidgen depending on whether a plate or film is

being used (my Zeiss Ideal has a similar gizmo, but Maximar doesn't). Also,

it's interesting that the distance scale is in feet!

[silent1]

Mark, if that's a Nixe, it's a variant model -- that is *not* a double extension bellows, not with lever focusing. Double extension requires a rack, because it allows the bellows to extend to nearly the 1:1 range -- and that kind of focal range wasn't useful with a roll film camera that didn't permit ground glass focusing anyway. Further, I looked at the Nixe and rejected it on the grounds that this camera has a "longer" format than either 8x10.5 or 9x12. Knowing the focal length of the lens would help -- "normal" for postcard is something like 150 mm (most 135 mm lenses of the day wouldn't cover 9x14), while the 135 mm or 13.5 cm would be normal for the Nixe. Measuring the frame mask would tell the format also, of course.

 

A search I made while composing my last post failed to turn up anything from Zeiss-Ikon that was definitively sold in postcard format including roll film capability, but the format was popular in the teens and twenties, and the 122 film was available into the 1960s, I believe. That 122 roll rilm, BTW, was definitely wider than 8 centimeters; the reel that holds 122 or 124 (same film width, different frame length; 124 was essentially 3x4 format on a roll) is a bit wider than 9x12 cm sheet film. There was at least one Ziess-Ikon plate camera sold in postcard (there was also a postcard Speed Graphic at one time), but it would have required an adapter to accept roll film.

[mskovacs]

What is the focal length of the lens? This will help to narrow down the format, either 122 as Donald asserts, or the more common modern standard of 120 format, likely 6x9cm. Does the shutter have a top speed of 1/200?

 

I'm starting a CLA on my dial set Compur shutter shortly if you want me to post a few photos. On mine, the front element pair unscrews from the shutter as a unit by simply turning the knurled filter ring CCW. The nameplate has two round holes for a spanner wrench, so likely that's how you get the two front elements apart for cleaning (mine are foggy inbetween). The rear is set with a slotted spanner nut, which probably removes the rear cell and/or the shutter from the standard. Once you have the shutter free, then you'll have to partially or totally disassemble it for cleaning.

 

Some notes on the dial set Compur: 1. as stated, B and Z setting are self energizing. The cocking lever is only used for the timed speeds, when the second dial is in I (interval) mode. 2. Don't turn the speed dial the wrong way. Follow the arrow or I've been told bad things can happen.

[jon_noble]

Thanks everybody for your help. The shutter is fine, its just that i cannot turn the dial so that i can use the B or T modes, its jammed. I dont think it takes 120 as i have tried before (was a long time ago).

 

Mike Covacs, the pics would be much appreciated.

 

This camera does have a plate thing at the back but looks so hard to use. Ive taken the plate out before and was such an arse to use.

 

Does anybody reckon theres a way to mod the spools of 120 so that it could fit? If not, i shall try to fig a way out and post the results but i cant promise anything.

 

The shutter seems to be in good nick but how much would it cost to get the B and T mode dial thingamebob fixed?<div></div>

[Troll]

Is it so much trouble to post thefocal length, speed, and name of the lens?

[mfophotos]

Dammit, the name is embossed on the leather, but I can't read it. Maybe it says

Cocarette!!

[jon_noble]

Ah, cant. im at uni and the camera is at my parents house. Im goin back on friday so ill get the info then.

[mskovacs]

Was it too small or too big for 120? If too small, its likely 127 format which you can still buy film for.

 

122 you cannot realistically shoot because there is no roll film available that wide. Even 70mm isn't wide enough. 122 sounds like a cool idea (LF sizes with roll film convenience) but I bet film flatness must have been a big problem. Now if someone could invent an active polymer matrix that stiffened as tight as glass on demand, then we'd be talking :)

 

Did you trip the shutter before trying to switch to T or B? It could be gummed up so much that it isn't winding down when you trip it. That would be the best case scenario. If things are bent/broken inside, then that would be too tough for me to deal with and defnitely not economical for what a dial set Compur is worth.

[mskovacs]

Some info for you to look at Jon:

 

<p><a href="http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/zeiss/cocarette/coca.htm">Cocarette</a>

<p><a href="http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/zeiss/nixe/nixe.htm">Nixe</a>

[jon_noble]

Cheers Mike. If i remember correctly 120 was too small. That link you gave me was helpful and almost completely describes it, except for the oading mechanism they talk about. The 1 ive got does do that. The back comes of, not even hinged.

 

Ta

[silent1]

The only size larger than 120 that commonly came with plate backs on the camera was the A3 or postcard format. This one (I think) seems to say Icarette, which is listed as one of the names in the family to which the Nixe belongs; it came in both 124 and 122 versions, it seems (9x12 and 9x14 on sheet film, respectively) and judging by the shape of the wire frame, this camera is the postcard version. However, the one illustrated at Pacific Rim has rack focusing and double extension, while Jon's version has the plate/film selector and lever focusing, clearly not double extension. Given that other price points of effectively the same camera were called Lloyd and Halloh, and under Ica, at least, there was actually an Icarette, it seems to me that Jon has a postcard format Icarette, an economy model but still with the plate back (which was sold separately for many A3 format cameras).

 

With an appropriate ground glass back and plate holders with film sheaths, and given restoration of shutter function, it would still be usable after cutting film from 5x7 or 8x10 (the latter gives three cut sheets from each original, so is more economical), or as I suggested earlier, adapt the film sheaths to use 9x12 film. Use with modern roll film is pretty unlikely; the framing window is in the corner of the 122 frame, and 120 would have to run along the camera-right edge of the frame mask in order to read any of the framing numbers -- on that edge, it'd be the 4.5 cm track, and you'd have to use 4, 8, 12, 16 to get 4 shots appr. 6x14 on a 120 roll (plus mask the finder to assist in framing for the off-center film).

 

Now, if you had some 122/124 spools (actually, pretty easily fabricated) and a source for suitable backing paper with framing marks (potentially, you could make this, as well; the backing on J&C Pro 100 in 120 seems to be nothing more than heavy black construction paper with white ink markings, and I haven't had a fog-through so far), you could slit down 5" or 9.5" (2 usable strips from this width) aerial film to load the original format. You would then, of course, need a 122/124 reel to load the film into for developing; IMO, more work than finding and using the plate backs for the camera, and sheet film will stay flat better.

 

All that said, postcard is a nice format, and the images I've seen in this format suggest most of the cameras made for it were at least pretty decent.

[mskovacs]

Really interesting thread - the wealth of knowledge around here is very impressive!

[peter_4711]

Hello,

Well is possible a Ica camera before 1925 goes in the ZEISS IKON AG.

This camera have don't included ZEISS or ICA marks. Is typical the ICA cameras have a Zeiss shutter and lens in this time but not trade marks and a camera name on the hand strap.

 

peter

[jon_noble]

Cheers Mike Covacs. My camera almost looks identical to the Cocarette Luxus except that its black. However the back of mine is similar to the Nixe. It must have been made somewhere between i suppose. I shall be seeing my local camera repair shop soon when i return to Plymouth and he might know.

 

Thanks all and i shall let you know what happens

[jon_noble]

Well, i have found out what it is. Its an Icarette not a Nixe or cocarette. The film capture size is the same as 6x9 but the film which it takes is larger than 120 film. A mod may work but not too sure anymore.

[deny zeiss]

Hello John thi sis Denis a french Zeiss Ikon enthusiast, fist let me congratulate you on your camera its a marvelous camera and has a high resolution in lenses TESSAR being as you know the summon of Zeiss Ikon lesnes and optics still to this day. The camera you own is an ICATRETTE and it may use film spoll number Kodak 116 which was produced in color and black and white. you can obtain them from a dealer in the USA called films for Classic -- Dick Haviland tel 001 716 624 4945 -a nd the address is : Film for Classics POB: 486 Honeoye Falls NY 11472 NY. otherwise you have another dealer which i have but cannot retrace it if you give me some time i'll locate it for you if you need it but bear in mind that the price per roll is approx situated between 25 to 30 us dlrs

if you wish write back to me at my email : denyzeiss@wanadoo.fr

ill be most happy to assist you if you need any additonal informaton.

Yours Truly

D. Morins

France

[deny zeiss]

try and use film number 116 i have similar cameras of this format is it a 6.5. x 11 cm let me know my email address

denyzeiss@wanadoo.fr

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have a nice day and hope to hear from you dont forget to give me your email is you resopnd through this site but I feel you shoudl reply to my at my email address mentionned