Mamiya 7 vs. Horseman SW612

[bill_glickman]

I am trying to make a decision between buying the Horseman

sw612 or the Mamiya 7. I see some advantages to the Horseman

including:

 

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1) Ground glass option for critical focus work.

2) Larger format backs available (6x7, 6x9, 6x12)

3) Rodenstock lenses, although outrageously priced, does anyone know

why?

4) Rugged with lens protector, nice when ya drop it.

5) Only a pound heavier and about the same size.

6) A look at filter effects on image when using ground glass.

 

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The disadvantages I see of the Horseman ...

 

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1) Horseman only seems to offer lenses up to 90mm? With the use of a

lens adapter, can this camera use other view camera lenses such as

the Schneider 150mm Super Symar XL?

 

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I must be missing something, because the Mamiya 7 is so

popular and the Horseman is rarely mentioned or carried by phot

stores, could some one fill me in on what I may be missing here?

Thank you in advance for your help, I expect this camera to last a

long time!

[jim_chow]

The camera you choose should really be dictated by its intended

use. If you're shooting landscapes, I'd go with the horseman sw612.

I think most people have not even seen it let alone used one. On the

612, you have to view the ground glass to see the effects of

focusing, as there's no coupled rangefinder (or guess according to

the DOF scales on the helicoil) and no meter. The M7's meter isn't

TTL, so there's no advantage over a handheld meter. The Rodenstock

lenses are basically Rodenstock 4x5 lenses w/ an integrated

helicoil and mount. You can actually buy the helicoil as a separate

accessory in the horseman catalog, but you'd need to make your own

mount/bellows rig to fit it to the 612 body if you want to use, say,

a 150 apo sironar.

[bob___8]

Regarding Horseman products. I asked a rep a couple of years ago why

Horseman didn't advertise their products. (Ever seen a Horseman ad?)

He said at least with respect to the VHR, it was not economic to

advertise them. That not enough sold to warrant advertising them and

the supply of used ones filled the demand. I told him I thought it

was unfortunate that such a tremendous camera was one of Japan's best

kept secrets. I believe that most anything made by Horseman is top

quality, but don't hold your breath to see their products advertised.

With the lack of promotion it's a wonder they sell at all!

[martin_drazsky]

I considered both systems and finally bought the Horseman SW612, principally because of the format flexibility (I use the 6x12 format extensively and the 6x9 format occassionally) -- in comparison, I find the 6x7 format of the Mamyia too "square" for landscape work. I went for the 55 mm Rodenstock lens(for 6x9 this is equivalent to 24 mm in 24x36 mm)-- the lens is very sharp (I have had a 18" x 36" Cibachrome print made from a Velvia slide and the detail is incredible), but it is also quite prone to flare and needs to be shaded from direct sunlight rigorously. With retrospect, I find the 55 mm a bit too wide and would probably now opt for the 65 or 75 mm as it is difficult to find interesting foregrounds that suit the panoramic format with an angle this wide. For the 6x12 format, using the centre spot filter is essential, otherwise the corners come out too dark (the filter is very expensive though). Compared to the Mamyia, the Horseman requires much more concentration in handling -- you need to remember to advance the film as this is done separately from cocking the shutter (I have double-exposed a few times). The film change is also very basic and you have to remember to remove the dark slide. On the other hand, if you follow a fixed procedure of "mental checks", the camera can be used quite efficiently. It is also lightweight, compact and sturdy and travels well. I do not use the ground glass focusing screen as I find the depth of field with such a wide angle lens focused on hyperfocal distance more than sufficient at f22 even for big enlargements. Besides, the optical viewfinder provided is pretty good to determine composition. I agree though that the ground glass screen would be useful for work with graduated filters - unlike the Mamyia, the Horseman at least gives you that flexibility, at least if you are prepared to fiddle with a dark cloth and a ground glass screen. My conclusion is that the Horseman is an excellent and highly recommendable landscape camera (I find the 6x12 format very effective and in fact the biggest selling point) but much less useful for any other purpose, compared to the Mamyia. With accessories, it is also more expensive than the Mamyia. While lenses can be changed, you are in practice unlikely to do that as (i) they are expensive, and (ii) each is supplied with a dedicated conical mount fixed to the body with four screws -- this makes extra lenses impractical to carry around and change in the field. I would be interested to hear about other people's experience with this camera -- I agree that it and the 6x12 format deserve more popularity among landscape photographers.

[jim_chow]

Martin, all the pro panorama cameras have shutter cocking and film advance as independent operations. Ditto on the Linhofs and Fuji 617. It's more like a LF camera with no bellows. I always advance the film to the next frame after each exposure. Besides, on the Fuji 617, if you use the shutter release on the body, it will not permit you to double expose. For that, you have to use the shutter release directly on the lens. I do the same thing with my roll film back for my 4x5...advance the film immediately after every shot. The added benefit is that after the last frame, you won't accidentally open up the filmback before winding up the entire roll!

[doug_dolde]

When you consider how extremely sharp the Mamiya lenses are you probably can get just as good an image by cropping to a 1:2 ratio. I'm forever regretting selling my Mamiya 7II and 65mm lens. Nothing else compares (that I have seen anyway) to the detailed sharpness it produces.