dabitz Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hi everyone, I intend to do portrait and glamour shots indoor mostly. I am trying to put together a small light system, since I am in a very tight budget. I am shooting with a Nikon D70. Setting I have in mind: SB-800 Master flash mounted on bracket/on cameraSlave SB-600 mounted on tripod behind model 2 Tote-lights (tungsten) with umbrellas on the side, 700watts each. The idea is to use the SB800 tungsten filter and diffuser so I would be matching all my light to tungsten. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=285942&is=REG Does this setting make any sense at all? It sounds like plenty of light to me. I don't know if the SB600 comes with a tungsten filter as well, but I guess could get a gel filter. Thanks so much for your advise. Totelights sound very affordable, specially with the stand/umbrella sets from B&H. I just want to hear from the experts before I jump on it. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_fontanilla Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Depends how far the hot lights are to your subject. It can work but since the hot lights aren't your main light source, you will have to adjust output of the flash units way down for the hot lights to have any affect. Depending on the positioning of the hot lights, you will have to drag the shutter speed pretty slow. It brings up other obstacles like ambient light and body movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terribletomterrific Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 Hi David, Sounds a little awkward, but it should work. Someplace in the back of my mind I remember hearing that type B film doesn't respond well to the very short flash duration of strobes. There may be some reciprocity problems there. You'd have to do some tests. Mixing light sources can be very nice--also very garish--but using type b film and key lighting the model with the totelight and umbrella, and then using the strobe to create a blueish skim light from the back could be very nice. But you can balance the sources too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabitz Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 I don't understand why I would have to use slow shutter speeds with so much light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_fontanilla Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 David, With your hot lights positioned into an umbrella and far from your subject, the light output will be nothing more than ambient light. If you take a meter reading without the flash and just the hot lights, you will see how slow your reading is. Maybe the speed will be acceptable to you. To get the highest output from hot lights (in your case just two) and to match it to the flash, the hot lights have to be as close as possible to the subject to retain a fast shutter setting. The positioning of the hot lights is obviously restricted. If you want to even out the lighting but keep the hot lights far (in your case into and umbrella,) you have to turn down the power of the flash (because you can't power up the hot lights) but you will have a slower speed. If you want full flash output and keep the hot lights far, you have to drag the shutter and the hot light output will just be ambient light. That is because the output of a flash is WAY brighter and hot lights are too weak. You need a lot of hot lights to match a small flash/ strobe. It just doesn't appear that way because the duration of a flash is very brief and hot lights are just, well... hot. If I were on a budget, I'd just get one mono light instead of the hot lights to go along with the flash units because it will be much more versatile. If you must have the setup you mentioned, I think it will be easier to use the hot lights as you main and your flash into the umbrella... but with that setup, you might as well use all hot lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabitz Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Can you explain how you would setup and use the monolight? Yes, I want to use my flash as main light source, I might have a second SB600 as well working in wireless mode. But I figured I would need more than that to light up a background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_fontanilla Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 David, My main objection to your setup is the mixed light sources. But not with the color or quality of light, but rather with the output differences, the way you intend to use them and the restrictions you will have. Without going into specific lighting arrangements, (because there is obviously more than one way,) if you are going to use a mono light(s), you might as well take the flash off the camera. You know all you need is a hotshoe/ pc adaptor for your D70 right? I use mine through a soft box on a stand but you can use an umbrella as well. You can use your SB's for side, accent or background lighting. With three strobes, you will be more versatile than with two stobes and two hot lights. You probably can get two mono lights and one speedlite on the same budget which may be even a better setup for you... but hey, it's your call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabitz Posted March 14, 2005 Author Share Posted March 14, 2005 Thanks Allan. I guess it is not a good idea after all. So basically I should not be mixing them, unless I use all SB's. Perhaps it will be cheaper to get 2 SB600's with the following setting. SB800 main on camera SB600 to the right of subject SB600 to light background Large reflector on the left of subject We are talking about an additional $500.00. Can you mix the SB800 with strobes? Have one good strobe on the side with a reflector on the left? That way I think I could retain the SB800 iTTL, and trigger the strobe in wireless mode hopefully? I am really confused about all this. If there is a good package for about 500.00 please post a link. I would assume I would have to measure light and lock the camera's exposure setting. Hoping there is a light at the end of the tunnel! Thanks again! Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_fontanilla Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 David, It's not that it's a bad idea mixing light sources; it's just that there are restrictions in the scenario that you want so it won't work so well. I guess you need to decide if you want a dedicated system for indoor portrait/ glamour photography with more light power for the buck or something that's a little less powerful but more versatile and can be used for other things as well. Sounds like the later for you since this will be your entire equipment for now. Perhaps one mono light and one speedlight? You can mix any light sources you want with simple pc cords if you have too. Consider the difficulty in adding light-shaping accessories to a speedlight if that's what you get- it's easier on a strobe. You don't really need a meter anymore since you can check your exposure with the picture or histogram in the camera LCD. Scrap the TTL feature for studio work- the lighting doesn't change unless you change it yourself so get use to manual mode. Get the flash off the camera. I don't have one, but check our Alien Bees... Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmeyer Posted March 14, 2005 Share Posted March 14, 2005 You should try making portraits and "glamor" photos with just one light and some reflectors. Then add a second light, possibly just on the background. After exploring this for several hundred exposures, you will have an excellent idea which way to go with further equipment choices. <p>I suggest you start with just one tota-light in a large umbrella with a substantial weight bag to stabilize the very sturdy light stand you will certainly have the sense to invest in. These lights are HOT, and the descriptor "glamor" implies the presence of bare skin and flimsy accouterments... t<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetlevel Posted March 15, 2005 Share Posted March 15, 2005 I mix sources like this all the time... works very well using the tungstens for overall illumination, and then using my SB-80dx on a bracket with a sto-fen dialed down for fill flash/motion stopping only. I do this with black and white mostly, so the filter is not an issue for me, but I don't know why it wouldn't work. The portrait of the young boy with dreads in my portfolio is made with the setup I just described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyr_. Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g._armour_van_horn Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 David, you certainly can mix the SB800 with strobes - the SB800 is a strobe so there's no mixing going on. I would suggest, however, that you are approaching this in a very expensive way. Tungsten bulbs draw a lot of power, and some of them have very short life. You're also throwing away a lot of light, first because tungsten film is 1/3 to 1/2 stop slower and you're filtering a good chunk of the light output from your SB800. And if that's not bad enough, last time I looked tungsten emulsions were more expensive than daylight - sometimes dramatically. I would recommend you start with the two flashes you mention and build yourself some reflector panels rather than bringing in the tungsten sources. Van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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