Which motor?

[red_buckner]

I have an FM2 and am considering an MD-12 motor for it. Is the F3

with its motor a more rugged and faster setup? I don't want to get

an MD-12 if it's going to beat the FM2 to pieces or be unreliable.

[richard_cochran]

I've got both the FM2n/MD-12 combo and F3HP/MD-4 combo. They both

work, but there's no question that, for motorized use, the F3/MD-4 is

nicer, though heavier.

<p>

The MD-12 is very loud, and occasionally jams, requiring you to take

the motor off the body, short out its electrical contacts (a dime

works fine for this), and power cycle it until it resets to its

starting position. The MD-4 is quieter, a bit faster, and jam-proof,

as far as my experience goes. The MD-4 also features power rewind of

the film, while the MD-12 makes you do the work of rewinding the film.

<p>

The only advantages to the MD-12 are that it's significantly lighter,

and it lets you easily add/remove the motor while film is in the

camera. The F3/MD-4 has a cover on the bottom plate, and it's at

least theoretically possible for light to enter this hole and fog the

film if you attach or remove the motor with film in the camera --

people often get away with it with no harmful effects, though.

<p>

I don't think an MD-12 will "beat an FM2 to pieces", and the combo

does work pretty well, but the F3/MD-4 is sturdier and a bit faster.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>Is the F3 with its motor a more rugged and faster setup?</I><P>Duh!

[stanley_chao]

First, The FM2 is 100% manual camera compare to F3 which has some electronic control. I owned both the MD-12 and the MD-4 and they are both reliable, the MD-12 is a bit noisy and had the auto battery shut off. If you want to get the FM2 then go for the MD-12, but do not get the MD-11 , because it might drain the battery if you forget to turn it off.

 

It comes to personal preference as to 100 % mechanical (battery for meter only) or some automatic function (Battery dependence). It's your choice. They are both good to have.

 

I hope this helps....

[loreneidahl]

I had a Md-12 jam up a FA something horrible. I ended up selling both for parts.

 

I have never had a problem with the MD-4 on F3. The MD4 is also cabaple of high speed (6fps) with the nikon battery pack.

 

The F3/MD4 is bulletproof. The MD-12 is bullet challenged

[blake_abbott]

My MD-12 jams occasionally as well, but I've had it on my FM2n for 5 yrs. and it still works fine. It (the MD-12)was bargain grade from KEH and works fine. I mainly use it as a grip rather than a motor, it just feels better, especially with longer lenses.

I've not used an F3, but undoubtedly it's a more robust setup.

[red_buckner]

Ellis, in such a short passage, it's okay to have parts of a sentence implied. That's why the other chaps understood the sentence. However, I'll provide a full form:

 

"Is the F3 with its motor drive more rugged and faster than the setup of an FM2 and its MD12 motor drive?

 

If the non-parallel "more rugged and faster" is puzzling, I don't know of a way to fix it without being wordy. You can't say "ruggeder" or "more faster," so the only solution would be a fair amount of additional language. Or am I wrong?

[david_kelly1]

Loren, the FA had it'sa own dedicated motor drive, the MD15. It

was never meant to be used with the MD 12, which is why your

attempt to do so destroyed both.

[susan_smith5]

I've got both - my F3P/MD4 is an old newspaper camera and has taken a beating, but still works. Sometimes the L/S/C switch plays up, but that's not a problem in terms of the film advance function. Sometimes the FM2/MD12 jams at the end of a roll. Somehow I manage to unjam it, but I haven't worked out the exact steps to do it.

 

Get the MD12 and go for it - you won't regret it.

[Ed_Ingold]

Syntax aside, in defense of Ellis, Red is asking whether a $1500 top of the line, professional camera with a $500 motor drive is more rugged than a $250 body and a $200 motor drive (new street price considered).

 

Three guesses - the last two don't count.

[Michael R Freeman]

David Kelly Jan 27, 2005; 04:53 p.m. ...

<i>Loren, the FA had it's own dedicated motor drive, the MD15. It was never meant to be used with the MD 12, which is why your attempt to do so destroyed both.</i><P>

 

Nikon would disagree with you David, as the MD-12 is listed as an optional motor drive right under the MD-15 on page 64 of the FA manual. :-)<p>

 

I had a MD-12 for my FA for a short time. It is <B>LOUD!!!!</b>. Definitely not a combination to use if you want to remain inconspicuous or discrete. I sold it after a few months. I have a MD-4 with me now that I will be selling for a friend. It seems a lot smoother and quieter.

[lex_jenkins]

The simple answer is, yes, the F3 with MD-4 is a pro setup and therefore is more likely to last longer and give fewer problems.

 

On the other hand, I run my F3HP with MD-4 virtually 99.5% of the time and my FM2N with MD-12 about 90%. Until last week I've never had a hitch with either and that was with the F3/MD-4. It began losing electrical continuity somewhere.

 

And that's a potentially serious problem. When the MD-4 is detached from the F3 there's a hole in the bottom plate that exposes the film compartment to light, risking fogged film. There's no such problem with the FM2N and MD-12. The motor drive can be attached or detached anytime midroll.

 

The tradeoffs are:

 

1. Strength of the physical connection. The connection between the F3 and motor drive is much stronger. A slightly tight film cassette that might bind a lesser camera won't make the F3/MD-4 even blink.

 

2. Power rewind. The F3/MD-4 has it, the FM2N/MD-12 doesn't. To have power rewind the FM2N/MD-12 would either have to be designed like the F3, with the bottom plate hole, or have a less strong physical connection between the rewind prongs and the cassette.

 

My FM2N/MD-12 have never even hiccupped, let alone jammed. Neither had the F3/MD-4 'til last week. I use the F3HP/MD-4 about 60% of the time and the FM2N/MD-12 about 40%. But the FM2N/MD-12 are much younger and probably have far fewer shutter cycles. My F3HP/MD-4 were beaters when I bought 'em and looked like they'd been used by a photojournalist or NatGeo photographer.

 

The two feel entirely different. The MD-4 grip is squarish while the MD-12 is rounded. There's a big difference in size - especially height - and weight between the two camera/drive packages.

 

Neither camera or drive is quiet. The shutters emit a metallic sound. The F3 mirror thunks while the FM2N clinks. The MD-12 has a nasal whine but is not significantly louder than the MD-4.

 

I put together a homebrewed blimp box for shooting theatre performances. It was made from a heavy Gevalia coffee delivery box and pieces of closed and open cell foam cut to fit. Holes for the eyepiece, lens and cable release. It was handheld or propped atop a tripod but not tripod mounted.

 

The F3HP/MD-4 could be virtually silenced by this blimp box while the FM2N/MD-12 still had a slight nasal whine that I couldn't quite eliminate.

 

Also, FWIW, tho' this won't matter to many shooters, the long eye relief finder on the F3 makes it easy to use with a blimp box. With the FM2N I had tunnel vision.

 

I just recently replaced the 8 AA batteries in each motor drive after 3 years of use. That's pretty good, especially when considering the F3 meter, shutter and viewfinder light run off the motor drive when the two are combined.

 

I wouldn't be dissuaded by my recent trouble with my F3HP/MD-4. As I said, it's a beater and has probably never been CLA'd. I'm lucky it's run this long reliably.

 

Neither would I be dissuaded from buying the FM2N or FM3A and MD-12 as an alternative. Lots of pros have used the FM series bodies so by that logic they must be "pro" cameras. ;>

[david_kelly1]

I stand, or rather sit, corrected - had the camera but never the

manual .

[chris_berry]

"I don't want to get an MD-12 if it's going to beat the FM2 to pieces or be unreliable"

 

From my experience that will not happen. Years ago I used to work as a cruise ship photographer. We would shoot dozens and dozens of rolls each and every day. Generally, we would do this for 6-9 months but I've done a couple of stints that lasted over a year on the same ship! Obviously this was extremely demanding on our cameras which were the personal property of each photog. We all used a mixture of FM2s/MD12 and F3HP/MD4s. Due to the 250 sync speed we used the FM2s for all the outside shoots. The F3s were mainly used inside where the fast rewind came in really useful especially for shoots like "Captains Handshakes".

 

Both setups were extremely reliable and rugged. On the rare occasions that we experienced problems it was always a result of dropping the camera onto a hard surface or a finger/film going through the shutter while on a tender boat etc. On occasion I have experienced an MD12 jamming but only on a camera that needed to be serviced or if it had worked at little loose from the camera body (the MD4 never seemed to work loose). I've never heard of either an MD12 or an MD4 requiring service but I'm sure it's happened. Obviously the MD4 is faster especially with the MN-2 NiCad but both units should serve you well. In my opinion the big difference between the two drives is the fact that the MD4 powers the F3 body and the MD12 does not provide power to any camera body. This is also the main difference between an MD12 and MD15 on the FA; the MD15 provides power to the FA. Obviously, there are pros and cons to the body being powered by the motor drive. However, be careful of the MN-2, it's a great piece of kit but like all NiCad batteries, when it goes flat, it has a tendency to die quick and without warning leaving you with no choice but to use the awkward mechanical release on the F3 body.

[wh]

I asked a similar question a while ago, the thread is <a href = "http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00A0r8">here</a> (cheers all for answering!). Swayed by the advice I received, when a cheap MD4 came up on *Bay I pounced on it. My F3 has been looking very snug for a week now. Heavy, wow it's heavy, but smooth, and the noise it makes is not too obtrusive.

 

<p>Will.

[loreneidahl]

Yes the FA has its own motor drive. md-15 I owned one. It died.

 

I was using the MD-12 as backup ( for some time ) when it went belly up too.

[lex_jenkins]

"On occasion I have experienced an MD12 jamming but only on a camera that needed to be serviced or if it had worked at little loose from the camera body (the MD4 never seemed to work loose)."

 

==============================

 

Chris brings up a good point. Check that thumbwheel frequently to be sure the connection between the camera and motor drive is secure. I do this reflexively now. The motor drives will loosen slightly from both my F3 and FM2N after long sessions of rapid, vibration inducing shooting sessions.

 

It might be a good idea to put a single, tiny drop of the weakest strength Loctite on the threads to keep the motor drive secure. I forget the Loctite number but it's the stuff that's intended only to resist loosening of threaded connections with a very slight bit of friction. It can withstand a few detachments and reattachments before the old dried stuff needs to be wiped off and a fresh droplet applied.