mf newbie P67 or Mamiya RB?

[dane_skye]

Hello-

 

I am a 35mm user going to take the plunge to Medium Format. I shoot

landscapes/nature/outdoors. Nothing inside and no flash work. I

always use a tripod and either Velvia or E100VS. My 35mm lenses of

choice are 24mm, 100mm and 21mm. I will start with a wide angle and

would hope to add a short tele in the fall.

 

After some looking around the MF digest and the forums here, I have

narrowed down to a 6x7 format(looked at a 6x6 c330 but think slr body

style and rectangles are more for me). Narrowed that down to a

Pentax 67 or a Mamiya RB67.

 

Pentax I liked the 35mm style design, prices of new gear, and lens

selection. Worried about mirror slap. Mamiya, like the swivel back

and close bellows focusing, worried its more of a studio camera.

Really like wide angle lenses, I like Pentax having the 45 and 55,

how do they compare to Mamiya 50?

 

Either way, buying used for now, probably KEH Bargin or EX- grades.

Inexpensive but usable, that I can upgrade around later if I like it

(and my telecom stock options go up-yeah right! :-)) Would love to

drop the $4G for a new setup, but money does matter. Besides as an

Olympus OM shooter I have bought alot of second hand equip over the

years, and with OM now disconinued thats all there will be. I will

still keep my 35mm gear, just want to be able to take a landscape on

a big 6x7 frame of film.

 

For about a grand either way I could get a 1 lens set up.

Pentax "6x7" model plus a 45 or 55.

RB67 body w/WL , back and a 50mm.

 

Pentax 67 users can you comment on 45/4 vs. 55/4, vs. 55/3.5?

 

Any thoughts or insight on these choices or ideas on what might be

better would be most welcome. Thanks!!

[joseph_verdesca]

This does not directly respond to your question, but I would also consider the Fuji GSW690III (or II) with 65mm fixed lens. Advantages - RF design (no mirror slap); larger negative (6x9); sharp lens. A used one should cost you less than a grand. Disadvantages - can't change the lens, RF design (I prefer SLRs from a visceral perspective). Owning both 6x7 and 6x9, I prefer the 6x9 for landscapes.

[frank_bunnik]

Both systems are excellent. Prices, both new and secondhand, of pentax 67 lenses are usually lower than those of Mamiya. Both camera's are more for tripod use, even if the pentax does not look like it. With the pentax you can turn the mirror up, prior to shutter release, so no need to worry.

 

Overall, I would say that the pentax is the easiest to use, for instance: setting hyperfocal distance (possible with mamiya but involves a little bit more work), no need to compensate for close range focussing (except for pentax macro lenses) (mamiya shows how much to compensate but again, more work involved), the mamiya allows flash with every speed but you will not need that with landscape shooting, the pentax has a topspeed of 1/1000th while the mamiya goes "only" to 1/400th. I have no idea about how easy it is to damage the bellows of the mamiya, still it involves a bit more care.

 

However, the mamiya has the possibillity to change filmbacks, and it has a polaroidback to see instant results.

 

Remember, if you shoot slides, it is difficult to find a projector for 6x7 (not to speak of frames) for a low price. 6x6 offers more projectors. Ansel Adams shot most of his later work with 6x6.

 

Hope this helps a bit, good luck, Frank

[roberto_manderioli]

The answer to me is the P67 without a doubt. If you go for the 67II with

metered prism it is almost like 35 mm except bulk & weight.

You can handhold it in some cases, you can even lock the mirror-up while handheld , with some practice. Lighter and less bulky than the RB. Lenses are excellent and cheap. There is a 45 mm you can obtain enough DOF with for your landscape shots.

For landscapes this is one of the best choices, unless you go to LF.

 

Just my 0.2 � ...

[trooper]

I'm a P67 user with great respect for the RB and its features and optics. That said and with the caveat that there are those who use the big RB in the field, I would probably still lean toward the Pentax for field work. They are surprisingly light as are the lenses (though bulky).

 

I have the 45 on the wide end and find that I rarely rely on the full field. I have had many second thoughts on whether I would have been better off with the 55. Some of this comes from the fact that the 55 is so highly regarded optically (I'm -very- pleased with the 45 though). The 45 would be roughly the equivalent or a bit wider than the 24 and just slightly less wide than the 21 on your Olympus for field coverage. I had the 75 so decided to go with the 45 to give a bigger gap in my lens selection and it sounds like your eye sees things in the wider perspectives. The 75 is okay, but the new 75 2.8 is supposedly a fantastic optic and would make a great all-around optic for you.

 

With either system you're considering, don't short yourself on a good tripod. What is sufficient for your easily controlled Olympus is quite easily too little for the RB or P67. Watch eBay for a proper Gitzo rig. There is a significant performance difference that pure appearance or weight do not accurately portray. I won't bore you with the details, but after much testing, I've gained a real respect for the Gitzo line and believe that choosing right on this part of your system will have more effect than optics choices!

 

Make certain you're sitting down when you open your first batch from medium format. If you are like most in this forum, you'll find that your 35mm equipment will see little activity in the next few years! There will certainly be many projects and occasions where the Olympus will be the better choice, but when you venture out for important events and work that will potentially be enlarged much, you'll grab the MF every time.

[frank_bunnik]

I agree and forgot to mention myself that a good sturdy tripod is absolutly necessary. Although I have no experience with Gitzo, I have read, seen and heard many complaints regarding the screw type setting of the legs from both amateur and professional users. Either put them too loose and the whole thing collapses with the camera on top of it of too tight and you can hardly get them loose.

 

Personally I like the Manfrotto/Bogen tripods. I have 2 of them, a 055 type and a smaller one, both with a good ballhead, both are excellent for my 6x6 work and will probably be very good for 6x7 as well.

[peza]

<i>With the pentax you can turn the mirror up, prior to shutter release, so no need to worry.</I><br>

<a href='http://www.luminous-landscape.com/pentax67ii.htm'>You need to worry</a> because not only mirror acts like hammer, but shutter as well.<br><br>

 

Mamiya RZ without prism is a bit lighter than P67 WITH prism, so - depends on your shooting style. P67 is smaller though.<br>

I'm thinking about MF/LF, but I decided to stay away from P67 because of vibration issue. Lenses are reported to be a bit better by Mamiya, but this vibration is anoying..

[frank_bunnik]

well, I never had any unsharp pictures because of the shuttersmack with the pentax.

[brian_c._miller]

Boy, do I have some photos which are blurred from shutter slap!! Of course, I had my P67 on a Benbo Trekker and I was using a 300mm lens. No problems with my big Bogen, though.

[robert_potts1]

If you like big imposing equipment at 6x7, go with an SLR. If you want to consistently produce really sharp large images, buy a rangefinder. The rangefinder is much easier to focus accurately and hardly ever shows any vibration in the photo. Rangefinders also have lenses with better central sharpness. I have a Pentax 67 and a Mamiya 7II. I prefer the color and contrast of the Pentax, but the clarity of the Mamiya is amazing. For landscapes, the benefits of a rangefinder are numerous.

[dave_t]

Not really answering the question, just extending the box a bit ...

<p>

Seriously consider a technical camera like a VHR or a baby Technika. For the uses you describe, I think these are better suited than either the P67 or the RB. They have the close focusing bellows and interchangeable backs of the Mamiya, but they also provide movements. Not as much as a real view camera, but generally plenty for landscape/nature. They're also smaller, especially if you're carrying a few lenses, and the lenses are lighter and often cheaper than the Pentax/Mamiya counterparts (compare Fuji 240A or 150 Sironar N/S or APO-Grandagons to the Pentax or Mamiya versions) They're a bit slower and far less forgiving of mistakes (did you forget to close the shutter before pulling the dark slide?) than the P67 or RB, but let's face it, all 6x7s will be cumbersome and slow compared to 35, and you won't keep making the obvious mistakes forever. You can also use these handheld with certain lenses. They're older cameras (the Linhof is still made, at nosebleed prices) but competitively priced when used. They might not work for you (eg., as a portrait camera the RB would be much better) but you should at least check them out. <a href=http://www.keh.com>KEH</a> had a decent Tech IV at an excellent price last time I looked. Or consider a proper monorail, like the Galvin (or the Technikardan 23S or Arca-Swiss 69 if your stocks go <i>waay</i> up).

[allan_jamieson2]

I can certainly recommend the 45mm and 55mm Pentax 67

lenses as being very good performers when used with a good,

solid tripod. I wouldn't even look at the older 55mm f3.5 lens, I

saw one once and it was huge, very big filter size and quality not

as good as the newer f4 versions from what I have heard.

 

If you go this route, buy the best condition lenses that you can

afford and don't be too fussy about a camera body/prism that

looks a bit scruffy. Eventually, you can buy a better condition one

when you can afford it.

 

But, if you are coming from Olympus cameras with their relatively

sophisticated and very accurate metering ( particularly in the

OM4ti that I have ), you might find it hard to get used to un-

metered prisms with the Pentax 67. I went this route some years

ago and found it a bit of a culture shock, although I soon bought

a hand held light meter and got the hang of it all. There are basic

metered prisms available for the older cameras, quite literally a

bouncing TTL needle as per a 20 year old Russian camera.

 

However, the Pentax 67 system and for that matter the Mamiya

RB as well, are big, heavy cameras, which you will certainly be

aware of as you carry them around with you. The Fuji GSW690

rangefinder is an excellent camera, with a fixed lens equivalent

to 28mm in OM terms. I bought a mark II version of the Fuji and

much prefer it to the Pentax these days, especially when carrying

for any distance.