Any recommendation for a "folder" (compact) Medium Format camera ?

[sassan_hazeghi]

I am considering getting a "folder" type medium format (6x6 or 6x9) rangefinder

camera to take along on hiking trips and am wondering what would be a good

choice in terms of image quality (sharpness & contrast.) I realize the

condition of these old cameras can vary quite a bit but assuming one can find

one in good condition (or restored professionally), I would like to know if

there is a consensus on which camera/lens combination would come closest to

what we have come to expect from the modern versions (Mamiya or Fuji

rangefinders.)

 

Thanks for any advice !

[jonathan_james]

Shortly you will get at least several responses saying that folders are nothing but trouble and you should steer clear. I disagree. I have about 15 folders as I am somewhat obsessive about them! At present I am a big enthusiast for Japanese 1950's versions. The Japanese manufacturers built their cameras to a high standard. The front standard is far more rigid than most European brands and many of them have coated four element lenses with unit focussing rather than front element focussing.

 

I suggest you search for the Konica Pearl, Takane Mine, Super Fujica 6 or Mamiya 6. The most compact of these is the Konica, but it is a 645 rather than 6 x 6. All of these have coupled rangefinders (in Konica's case from model II onwards).

 

Of the European brands, the Voigtlander Bessas are great at 6 x 9 but are pricey. Look out for the Heliar lens here - it's a five element unit focussing model of extremely high quality. The ultimate in compact cameras is the Voigtlander Perkeo which is 6 x 6 - the best lens is the color skopar. It doesn't have a rangefinder though, so you would need to guess the distance or buy a supplemental rangefinder.

 

I suggest that you check out Jurgen Kreckel's site at http://www.certo6.com as he is an acknowledged expert on folders.

[paul ron]

Ah yes, folders. They are sweet little gems compared to their big brother MF cameras. What I like is the fact you can put it in your jacket pocket and have that MF format negative with all teh sharpness to boot.

 

Zenobias are simply beautiful, Zeiss Ikontas with wonderful Tessar lenses, VBoitlander Bessa 66 is such a little lady with a great lens. The 6x9s are a bit larger but not much gain in weight, just size but the negative quality is gorgeous.

 

Some may need a bit of work since these cameras are old adn haven't been used in some years but that's half the fun. Since most of these old folders can be had relatively cheap, you can own many of em as most of us do.

 

Shop around, check the classifieds or try hitting some of us camera junkies, we have surplus and are always willing to help another aspiring camera junkie. I have almost 50 of these babies in my closet and am always willing to let a few go to make room for another. You'll understand that when you get a taste of em.

[ranong]

i have a russian moskov 5. it is a 6x9 and it is a good one. sometimes the russian stuff is hit or miss, but this one is excellent. the bellows are light tight, and all the speeds are on. i got it shipped to me for $40, so it was well worth the risk.

 

eddie

[harvey_trautenberg1]

I currently use the best folder I've ever owned. The Plaubel Makina 67. I am consistently wowed by what this camera does with my limited abilities. If you are in the position to purchase one you owe it to yourself to check it out.

 

Unfortunately, it resembles a "clown camera" when you hang it from your neck. I get responses from laughter to "does it shoot water at you" when people see it.

[minhnguyen9113]

You can have Kodak 616 Art Deco with excellent 4.5 lens and easily converting it to 6x12 120 roll film and enjoy panorama format, light weight and fit for hiking.

[brenda_carpenter2]

Don't overlook the Agfas. The ones with the Solinar lens (a four-element) are very sharp. I have an old Agfa Ventura with a solinar that gives great results. They are not as good of course, as the TLR's, but they are so light and easy to use, they are a good choice for when you want something light to carry that will give you a large negative.

[frank r]

Another vote for certo6.com. Email Jurgen and buy a camera from him directly. He has already gone through the camera to clean and fix it. This will save you a lot of headaches if you buy a cheaper camera and end up having to do it anyway.

 

You will pay progressively more for better lenses, better shutters, uncoupled rangefinders, coupled rangefinders, and the rare working light meter. Oh, and you will pay more for pretty.

 

I prefer a Tessar-style coated lens with a Prontor SV or SVS shutter. An uncoupled rangefinder at a minimum. A coupled rangefinder is really nice (more convenient to use). Some collectors drive up the prices of coupled rangefinder cameras, really nice glass like the Heliar, and fancy shutters like the Compur Rapid. Don't compete with them unless you have the money.

 

I liked my Perkeo II with Color Skopar; very tiny. But it did not have a rangefinder. My Iskra worked wonderfully and had all the best glass, nice shutter, and a coupled rangefinder; but I felt it was bulky and heavy. Others love theirs.

 

I just bought a Franka Solida II with a Xenar (tessar) lens in a Prontor SVS shutter. It has an uncoupled rangefinder. I just tested it and the shutter works correctly and the rangefinder is accurate. It also looks good. A nice camera that is still remarkably light. A rare combination for an old camera.

 

I have been debating with myself about getting a Moscow 5 from Jurgen. A coupled rangefinder, tessar lensed folder that takes 6x9 shots. And if Jurgen has already gone through it, I feel better about the reliability of using it.

 

But then again, the Fuji GA645 looks like a great little camera too. Hmmm... never enough money and time.

[peter_evans4]

<p>Start <a href="http://www.geocities.com/antjam65/folders.html">right here</a>.</p>

 

<p>Though still very patchy, <a href="http://camerapedia.org/wiki/Main_Page">Camerapedia</a> is relatively informative about quite a lot of the lesser known folders.</p>

 

<p>Don't overlook the Iskra. There have been a lot of threads about it here and <a href="http://nelsonfoto.com/v/index.php">there</a>. Also, I wonder about the Super Fujica Six.....<p>

[jim_mcbride]

I love old folders and own/use many of them. The late Zeiss Super Ikontas are among the

best ones. My clear favorite is a Russian Iskra from the early 1960s, IIRC. The Iskras

employ a lens similar in design to the Zeiss Tessar. It makes very sharp and contrasty B&W

negatives with Tri-X and similar films. It is difficult to find an Iskra in good condition,

however. I also agree that Juergen Kreckel (certo6) does a truly magnificent job restoring

old folders to a beautiful, workable condition. If I were looking to purchase a usable folder,

I would contact him first.

[dave_powell2]

A lot of great suggestions already. Adding to Brenda's mention of the Agfa, you could also look for an American counterpart to some of the Agfa designs...the Ansco Titan. It has a great Anistigmat lens, solid build quality, and a genuine leather bellows (just like the big boys). It also has a very easy-to-use, color-coded, hyperfocal-focusing scale. Simply lovely.

 

Sincerely,

 

Dave

[donald_brewster]

I don't know that they will come close to the modern Mamiya 6 and 7 or a Fuji, but the folders do have their charms. Certo66 is a good person to deal with and get a sense for good folders. I've used many over the years. The Ensign Autorange 820 is my favorite, followed by the Bessa II (with Heliar or Color Skopar), the Zeiss Super Ikonta (with Tessar), and the Moscow 5. Obviously, I have a taste for the coupled 6x9 versions. The Moscow 5 is a good inexpensive way to get into the folder camp. Condition matters a great deal for all these cameras. I've lost a couple due to drops and bumps -- the folding arms are very sensitive. Have fun!

[helenbach]

I use either a Plaubel Makina W67 (55 mm lens) or a 67 (80 mm lens)when travelling and when walking. Though they are risky purchases nowadays, they are very fine cameras.

 

Best,

Helen

[paul_chan4]

The Zeiss Super Ikonta IV is a nice folder in 6x6 format with a reputable Tessar lens to boot. It's fairly compact and should fill your need nicely. Check the bellows and leaf shutter. The integral selenium meter may no longer be reliable but you can always fall back on the sunny 16 rule. If you move up to the 6x9 format, the C model with the Opton Tessar is another model hard to beat. You set the operational modes manually without any auto feature. That I suppose is what the fun of photography is all about.

[gary_watson]

I'd be tempted to skip the Antiques Roadshow crapshoot and go for the last run of Fuji 645 folders--they're scarce and sometimes pricey but fixable, metered and, again, not 50+.

[ted_chambers]

I agree Jurgen Krekel is a good person to go to. Rather than go to his Ebay auctions it may make sense to go to him directly. Some folders, such as the Bessa II, have become cult cameras and are way overpriced - up near what you'd pay for a Fuji 690. And they aren't equivalent, so that doesn't make sense. However, there are lesser names that can represent great values.

 

You may find the 6x9 format better for hiking if you're taking landscape pictures. The square format lends itself more to portraits.

[robert_marvin]

I've had pretty good results from my Iskra, although the double exposure prevention still occasionally gets "confused" even after a CLA by Eddie Smolov (i.e. I occasionally loose a frame or two because the camera will not let me cock the shutter after winding and forces me to skip a frame).

 

I also use a Kodak Medalist II which is NOT a folder, but, since the lens collapses, it's remarkably compact for a 6 X 9 camera (although it will not fit in most coat pockets). Re-loading 120 film onto 620 spools for this camera is easy, albeit a bit of a PITA--I use the camera MUCH more since I had it converted to 120 by Ken Ruth, but that was co$tly.

 

The five element 100mm Ektar lens is reputed to be one of the best medium format normal lenses ever made and IMO its reputation is well deserved. Unlike the Iskra and most other folders, the Medalist has automatic shutter cocking, which I consider a BIG plus.

[trooper]

You may want to consider a few extra $$ for the GS645 Fuji folder. This was a pocket companion of mine for many years and I've always been delighted in it's capabilities. I had my bellows replaced once (a CLA at the same time) since buying it new in 1987 (I think I've got that date right). I see them slip through the auction site at quite affordable prices lately. The optics are on par with anything in the 645 world that I've ever used (Bronica SLR, Bronica RF, Pentax 645). I understand your interest in the older folders as I've had a number over the years and enjoyed using them, too. Whatever you pick, you'll enjoy the larger negative vs 35mm for the tonality enhancements.

[phil_hanson]

I am still hugely impressed by the negatives and transparencies shot on the Voigtlander Bessa with Color Skopar lens I used to own. Another strong, good quality basic folder I had was the British Ross Ensign that could be configured for 6x6 or 6x9 - you see them for sale sometimes. When I want to shoot MF and travel light these days I use my Bronica RF645, a superb camera - and this is from someone who has been a Hasselblad user for 35+ years!

[Andrew in Austin]

Antique folders are an acquired taste, but pack more easily than my Fuji GW670II. A folder fits easily into a small satchel that also holds either a 35mm rangefinder or my DSLR.

 

When it comes to the "antique road show", my Ansco Super Speedex, a.k.a an Agfa Super Isolette in North American livery, is fitted with a unit focusing 75mm f/3.5 Solinar that matches my Minolta Autocord TLR in image quality and the camera is much quicker in use. It automatically senses the begining of the film emulsion, stops the winder at the next frame and has a coupled rangefinder.

 

That said, my older 6x9 Agfa Record III, with red window film winding and a non-coupled rangefinder is sees more use. The front cell focusing 105mm f/4.5 Solinar is not as crisp towards the edges, but it allows me to use a Leitz 1:1 5cm bright-line finder, which make composition much easier. The big 6x9 negs are what makes bringing this hall of famer along.

 

Back to the Autocord TLR, in my opinion it's not that difficult of a camera to bring along on a hike. Plus, bayonet 1 filters and hoods are more easily sourced than the push-on filters for folders. Film flatness is not an issue on this particular TLR. Last but not least, the camera itself is more easily found in ready-to-shoot condition and usually less expensive than a top of the line folder.

[jeffrey_steinberg]

goto www.certo6.com

 

Jurgen, from germany expertly repairs them and sells them. Always has great folders. I just bought a Zeiss Ikonta IV and its wonderful to shoot with.

 

You will love his repaired folders.

 

--Jeffrey

[sassan_hazeghi]

Many thanks for all the responses and insightful recommendations (as well as the pointer to Jurgen Kreckel's well organized page!) Considering only the 6x6 or larger choices, it looks like the list can be narrowed down to:

 

- Voigtlander Bessa II with Color Heliar/Color skopar

 

- Agfa Super Isolette or Isolette III, with Solinar

 

- Zeiss Ikonta/Super Ikonta, with Tessar

 

- Voigtlander Perkeo II, with Color Skopar (no rangefinder ?)

 

- Franka Solida II

 

There was also a reference to Plaubel Makina W67 which appears to be a bit larger than the "classic" folders and also seems to be rather rare, but has the advantage of a wide (55mm) Nikon lens and being an easier match to my darkroom setup which is based on Mamiya 7-II negatives.

 

So, if I were to further narrow down the choices to 6x9 cameras, (which, as was pointed out, is a better fit for landscape photography), would that reduce the list to Bessa II (followed by Makina 67 ?) And do either of these (in good condition) show up on ebay frequently enough ? Am I missing any other obvious choices (the primary criteria, again, being image sharpness & contrast.)

 

Thanks again !

[peter_evans4]

<p>Yes, I think you're missing several things. For one, <a

href="http://www.geocities.com/antjam65/Autorange820.html">this</a>.</p><p>I

wouldn't dream of buying any camera like this from Fleabay. True, I

<em>might</em> get a bargain that way, but I'd be battling not only

seller

ignorance/evasiveness/deceptiveness but also other bidders' desire

to show the size of their -- whoops, let's scrub that. And I don't

think I'd buy from Certo66: not because I've heard anything bad

about him (rather the contrary), but because his cameras are

expensive and tend to come with luridly colored bellows. Instead,

I'd first confer briefly with <a

href="http://www.deansofidaho.com/">Dean</a> (of whose inexpensive

and excellent camera repairs I have been a happy customer) about

what kind of repairs he's willing to do on what kinds of folders;

and then, armed with this knowledge, I'd go to a "bricks 'n' mortar"

store where I could ''see'' what I was getting, and preferably get

it with a short warranty.</p>

[Andrew in Austin]

Hello Sassan,

 

I haven't shot with one, but the Ensign Autorange 820 looks to be a top-of-the-line folder as well. Also, I'm surprised that no one here has mentioned the original Mamiya 6 folder from the 1950's. I haven't shot with one of those either.

 

From you list, let state that automat film winding and a coupled-rangefinder/viewfinder are a couple of features that can make or break the transition from a modern camera to a medium format folder. Uncoupled rf's viewable through a separate eyepiece makes one feel like they are using a miniturized press camera. Plus, advancing the film using a red window without the winder stopping autmatically at the next frame slows one down even further and the red window doesn't work well in low light or at night.

 

Thus, the Agfa Super Isolette/Ansco Super Speedex and the Soviet Iskra are much nicer in use than the Agfa Isolette III, which lacks a coupled rangefinder and automat type film winding. The Isolette III is in the Mess Ikonta class rather than the Super Ikonta class.

 

If you do pick up an Isolette III, there is a late version with a 75mm, f/3.5 Solinar - that isn't unit focusing -, but still tack sharp until you get really close-in. This camera does nature photography well. With people in the frame or in low light, I prefer my Super Speedex, which is a Super Isolette with North America branding.

 

Zeiss Ikon made a variety of Super Ikontas, the cutest being 645 Super Ikonta A.

 

I've shot with both the Super Ikonta B and a Super Ikonta IV.

 

The III/IV may lack the incredibly over-designed build and design features of the B, but are smaller, lighter and much more natural to use with its focus ring versus a focus wheel. Film loading on the Super Ikonta IV and its predecessor the III is much easier than with the older Super Ikonta series.

 

Be warned that the Super Ikonta IV has that dreaded LVS lock to maintain a constant EV when the shutter speed dial is moved. The Super Ikonta III does not have this feature and has a nice 10 bladed aperture diaphram as well.

 

The Super Ikonta III uses the same body and can be found with the same superb 75mm / 3.5 Tessar - abeit minus a Selium light meter. My light meter worked perfectly on my IV, but if I was purchasing again, I'd forego the Super Ikonta IV and get a III.

 

These cameras are old. Viewfinders are squinty by today's standards. Framelines are an unheard of luxury.

 

Should the old beast need servicing, try Ken Ruth at Bald Mountain Photography, http://www.baldmtn.com/

[peter_evans4]

<p><em>Framelines are an unheard of luxury.</em></p><p>Er, no they aren't. Late versions of the Mine Six have framelines, the Pearl IV has framelines; the Super Pontura (I think it's called) even has parallax-adjusted framelines if I remember right.</p><p>But true, most don't have framelines.</p>