Macro or Close-Up on my 4x5

[jeffrey_sipress]

As a relative newcomer to 4x5, I want to do some close up work. Typically with my 35mm

gear, I would use my macro lens. What equivalents techniques are there for 4x5 and can I

get similar results just by using my current 135 or 90mm lenses creatively?

[pvp]

I guess there are dedicated macro lenses for LF, but you'll do just fine using what you brung. IMO, the biggest problem will be having enough bellows to get the desired magnification.

[barmijo]

I'm no LF expert, but I've just racked out my bellows as far as they'll go and used my existing lenses to get to 1:1. How close you can get to 1:1 will depend on the maximum bellows extension for your system. Some cameras need extension bellows. Macro lenses are availible and would be corrected for that useage, but I've not noticed huge problems with my images.

[michael_briggs2]

<p>The answer depends on what your mean by "macro". If you subject is a few times larger than 4x5, then your regular LF lenses will probably work pretty well. If you want a subject of about 4x5, then a symmetrical lens might do better. For true macro with larger than life size images, an inexpensive technique that works well is to use a reversed enlarging lens.</p>

 

<p>Here are some previous threads: <i>Lens choice for close ups?</i> at <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009tBw">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009tBw</a>,

<i>Macro lens designs</i> at <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004MKM">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004MKM</a>,

<i>Macro Lens: Thinking about one...-Not sure...</i> at <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007nr6">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007nr6</a>,

<i>LF macro and micro</i> at <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005sG6">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005sG6</a>,

and <i>Large Format Macro - Behind? or in Front..?</i> at <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007dA5">http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007dA5</a>.</p>

[jgreg]

I have a Speed Graphic and recently used it for marco work on some Peacock feathers. I was able to fill the 4x5 frame with just the eye of the feather(granted my DOF was REAL shallow.) Using my standard 135mm Ektar, I did as stated above and locked the bellows all the way at the end of the rails. Then I racked the rails all the way out and moved the camera in and out to get basic focus. Then I used the focusing knobs to fine tune the focus, viewing on the ground glass. It worked great. It got me well above 1:1 macro(lens was about 6-8 inches from my subject.) I'd say about 2:1 or 3:1. Hope this helps. You really need a sturdy tripod when this close because focusing is tricky and putting in the film holder shakes the camera and can spoil the fine focus.

[mike_hoogendyk]

This is the major problem I can't solve. Been learning and practicing 4X5 for about three years. Using my 210mm I have real problems once I get within 40 inches or so lens to subject. DOF at that distance becomes less than 2 inches or so. I'd love to have about 20 inches of clear DOF at that point. Anyway, my instructors have normally counseled me to either back up, take the image and then crop (which then eliminates detail I want), or to pick another subject (which avoids solving my problem entirely). They claim that other lenses are not necessarily the answer as they either have very little additional DOF (only an inch or so) or they don't reflect images as honestly. For example, they claim that wide angle just doesn't work well for close ups due to distortion, I believe. As a result, until I find the answer (new lens or new procedure or whatever), I've been sticking to close-ups of subjects with relatively flat surfaces that are parallel to the lens plane. So - good luck. And, if you find the answer, let me know.

[ryan_mcintosh]

Jeff,

Using a wider angle lens that stops down really small would be your best bet. What I recommend is try using the lens you have now on your 4x5, (probably around 135mm-127mm right?) and extend your bellows AS FAR out as they will go. Then set your camera close up to the subject and just move the camera back and forth to see how close you can get to the subject.

 

If you have a 90mm lens, you will be able to get closer then you would with a 210mm lens.

 

Depth of field is a problem when doing close up work. First off, learn how to use your camera movements, like front tilt and swing. Second, learn where the focus plane is in the photograph, always rememeber depth of field is 1/3rd in the front, and 2/3rds in the back...keep that in mind when focusing your image. Finally, after fully focused, stop down your lens to gain good depth of field. Most normal lens only go to 32 or 45, but to get a better depth of field...f/64 is usually needed. For example, Edward Weston used f/256 to photography is seashells and peppers to gain infinity depth of field.

 

Work around with focusing, because that will be your main problem. ALSO...Remember to calculate your exposer time properly for BELLOW EXTENTION FACTOR. Since the lens is further away from the film...it needs more exposer time!

 

Good luck,

 

Ryan McIntosh

www.RyanMcIntosh.net

[simon_knight1]

It's worthwhile calculating the actual depth of field at macro object distances. The rule of thumb that depth of field is 1/3rd in the front, and 2/3rds in the back is only approximately true at moderate distances. It is not accurate either close-up or nearer infinity. Secondly a big challenge with 4x5 macro photography is that diffraction increases since the bellows factor increases the effective f-stop. At 1:1 the effective f-stop is double, so f45 becomes f90 - this does start to reduce sharpness, offsetting the increased depth of field.

[tedharris]

There is some good information in all the answers you have received so far but a couple of

important points hve been missed:

 

1) You said close-up but didn;t tell us what you meant by that term. Photographing at

ratios of 1:1 and larger requires additional disciplines that you do not encounter when

photographing at normal subject distances. There are issues of depth of field, lighting,

reciprocity failure due to long bellows extensions, choosing the best lens for the subject,

etc.

 

2) Generally, if you are shooting a three dimensional object then optimaslly you will want a

lens designed for macro work (e.g. the Schneider makro series). If, OTOH, you are

photographing flat or nearly flat objects you will want a lens designed for 'process' work

(e.g. a Schneider G Claron. My use of Schneider names is for illustrative purposes as all

the major manufacturers make specialized lenses.

 

Having said that, if you are nto going to enlarge yoru final work beyond say 11 x 14 or 16

x 20 you probably will not see the difference from using a specialized lens and a general

purpose lens corrected for infinity.

[mbrianmills]

There is some good information here so far. I have done a fair amount of close-up (up to 1:1) and ultra-close-up work (up to 10:1). There is something moving about a negative that shows an object that is larger than the real object is.

One thing that I found useful was not only having a sturdy tripod, but through some method attaching the subject to the camera so they both "sway" together. Even if you are working in a very still area the earth is vibrating and with very long bellows extension you get more camera movement than you want--if your camera and subject are connected then you don't have to worry as much about the earth's vibration and can do long, long, long exposures without too much trouble.

I'd say that you use that 90mm lens as it will be the best. Don't worry about getting a special lens or anything. At this point it is all about experimenting. You should have fun with it. Do a number of things. You?ll fail a bit, but who cares?

If you have more questions, just ask. You may email me directly if you think I can offer the assistance you desire.

[incitatus_rex]

Macrophotography with a 4x5 camera is not exactly trivial, as you will find as you experiment. The book " A manual of close up photography" by L. Lefkowitz is a good resource.