My first wedding experience (as an assistant)

[photoreu]

Hi again.. a few days ago I posted requesting advice for being an

assistant for the first time.. Thanks to all who replied! The

wedding went really well and I gained so much from this experience,

it was well worth it! Anyone who says assisting is a waste of time

doesnt know what they're talking about. I was able to learn tons

from the experience without jeapordizing a couple's wedding photos

(by just shooting it myself). He even gave me his 10D and 27-70L to

work with during the event. This was my first time shooting digital

and I must say I loved it. He's going to send me some of the

finished images that I took and I'll post them here for some

constructive criticism. I'm always trying to improve... it's great

to be inspired by a great artist! I plan to make assisting a regular

event, as I feel that there is something to learn from everyone. I'm

also much more confident to tackle some of my own weddings now (I

have one coming up this spring for a friend).. Can't wait!

[william_scott5]

I'm surprised anyone would tell you assisting is a waste of time...especially w/ wedding photography ...since there are no second chances !!! Most photogs I know recommend assisting, I do also but I also add that assisting just one photographer isn't the best idea also.

I assisted 3 the 2nd year I started shooting and take the best from all my sources and use what works for me...plus you'll learn more from assisting a good photographer than any school could teach...but I do advicated good technical knowledge too...so it's a blend of knowledge, experience and assisting....

 

Will

[derek_c.]

All I said was "If you truely believe you can skip assisting, you probably can.".<br>

I dare you to dig out the part where I said "waste of time".<br>

Perhaps you were not talking about me, then, my apology in advance.<br>

So, these were your key points of assisting.<br>

1. You were worried you might ruin photos.<br>

2. You didn't have confidence.<br>

Therefore everyone should assist first ?????.<br>

<br>

But there are millions of hobbyists who don't have your problem.<br>

Not everyone is unsure about their photography skill like you.<br>

It would be hard to believe for you, but to a lot of hobbyists, taking solid pictures is a common sense.<br>

For heaven sakes, photography is a fun hobby.<br>

It's amazing how some people are so unsure about their photography skills.<br>

<br>

I guess you are the smarter one, since you are jumping right to doing your own wedding.<br>

Because you have just realized you can handle weddings on your own, after just one assisting.<br>

Right?<br>

That *kind of* proves my point.<br>

A~mazing.

[derek_c.]

Oh, I want you to make sure, I am NOT saying I'm a fantastic photographer.<br>

All I'm saying is:<br>

Some people can skip assisting and do just fine.<br>

Some people must assist for years for whatever the level they want to be.<br>

Some people should not pick up a camera at all (they might hurt themselves).<br>

<br>

It's just like any other jobs, sports, and hobbies.<br>

Some people have a knack for it. Some people just don't get it. And there are all kinds of people in between.<br>

My question is... why do they bothere to become photographers if photography is that difficult and stressful?<br>

Why? because wedding photography is an easy money.<br>

This is a basic economics.<br>

We all settle down with the job that pays more for less work.<br>

Why would you be a photographer if you can make better money with somethign else?<br>

Do you owe your talent to the society?<br>

Let's not fool ourselves, people.<br>

At the end, it's all about money.<br>

[photoreu]

Derek: I was not speaking of you specifically... as you pointed out, you never said "it was a waste of time." But since you brought it up, you've certainly implied it in the past. I actually dont dissagree with you (for the most part). I think that if you possess the skills then you would do ok. Most clients are happy and willing to pay for "ok" wedding photographs... hell, some even pay for bad ones. I'm personally not willing to settle for "ok" work. Sure I have the technical knowledge of what makes a good exposure, what makes a good composition, etc etc.. but it's only technical knowledge. I've never been a wedding photographer before.

 

I guess my point isnt that everyone must assist, but I do feel that everyone with an open mind could benefit from it. By assisting different photographers you can witness how they interact with the clients, where they stand, how they think. Everyone's approach is different. I aim to be versatile, and good. I'm completely confident that I could produce satisfactory results for most any couple. I dont want satisfactory. I want them to be speechless when they see the results of their wedding day. I want them in tears. For me, it's not all about the money. I know that if I produce quality (spine tingling) work (and if I possess the right business skills) the money will come.

 

Sorry if you felt like I was attacking you in some way, i wasnt. I just have a different point of view. When you say I dont have confidence, I should reiterate that I am completely confident I could produce what some might even call "great" photographs (some people have actually told me this, oddly enough)... But are they great to me? Would they be great to someone else who I respect as an artist? I certainly couldnt produce the level of work that the photographer I worked for is producing... no way. I doubt if many people could. To do what he does takes his personal experience, skills, confidence, and a style that are all particular to him. I'll never be exactly like him, and that's not what I'm aiming for either, but I would love to see the same reactions that he gets out of his brides.

 

Maybe I'm being unrealistic. I dont think so. I think I just realize that it takes more than technical expertise to produce an image that impacts you. It takes more than reading all the books out on wedding photography to know how to make a client feel comfortable and capture the true essence of their being. Sure I possess some natural talent when it comes to people, but I'm not going to pass up the opportunity to study with someone who has mastered it. While I made no money assisting this weekend, the experience I gained while working with a pro is a better long term investment, IMHO.

 

Again, I'm not discounting your opinion.. I think that your approach definitely has it's place. It's just not the approach I want to take. Does everyone NEED to assist? No. Should they? Probably. I just think that working with someone else opens up a window into another world. If I had never worked with someone else in my life and only knew what I knew from my own experiences, then maybe I would be the one so narrow minded.

 

Man that sounds harsh, and it's not intended to insult.. I just think you might stand to open your mind a little.. go assist someone with a different style. You'll learn something, I promise (even if it's learning what NOT to do).

 

Anyway, one thing I do disagree with you on is that you suck. You dont. I've seen what you've put online for us to see before and you're actually quite good, IMO.. Maybe we have the same problem, I think my work sucks too.. I'm just not ready to charge someone for it :)

[al_kaplan1]

I'd like to bring up the concept of learning photography by shooting a variety of assignments, such as magazine and newspaper photographers do. The editor gives you the assignment to go shoot. If the pool of photographers is large enough some thought might be given to which person is most suitable. Sometimes the most suitable photographer already has an assignment at that time. You run into a lot of situations that all the assisting experience in the world would have been no help at all. You have to think on your feet, make creative decisions from exposure to lighting to lens choice, make sure no aspects of the event go unrecorded, and that there's a selection of photos that can be cropped in various ways. Over all shots. Interesting close-ups. Photos that convey the "feel" of the location(s). Otherwise the art director will make sure that you're out job hunting in the morning.

 

Too much wedding coverage is formulaic, the same damn pictures with an interchangeable cast of characters on whatever stage is being used for tonights performance.

[photoreu]

Al that's a great point. Taking on assignments or projects can certainly be a way to challenge yourself. I think any experience (whether on your own or working under someone else) leads to improvement, although being on your own would definitely force you to step up to the plate and perform. The "cookie cutter" wedding photographer is exactly what I DONT want to be... but I can see now that trying too hard to not be something can be a bad thing too. I think I will take your advice and try to cover something fully (wedding or not) and see how I come out. That is one thing I will say is a drawback to assisting, or being the second photographer. You're left to kind of fill in the gaps while the main photog does the big stuff. Either way, I was learning, and I liked it. (determining if I would even enjoy the process was part of my reason for assisting first.) I really appreciate all the input that everyone here on PN gives. While we may all disagree at times, we can at least learn from eachother in the process! :)

[al_kaplan1]

Reuben, instead of looking at being second shooter as just "filling the holes" try looking at it as the mortar that holds the bricks together. No matter how you cut it, no matter how creative you want to be, the majority of the wedding coverage will still always be the expected photos typical of any wedding. Tying those pictures together, and illustrating the uniqueness of THIS wedding, is the more difficult task.

 

As an assistant you might better serve the main shooter at times by running around with a slave flash on a light stand. Hold it overhead as a boom ~ use it to light up the background, follow the bridal couple around the dance floor using the slave as a top/back light for dramatic lighting. In some cases you can even do this during the procession before the ceremony, following the people down the aisle if needed. Unique and dramatic lighting can make a huge difference!Get a fish-eye shot from the balcony. Get tight shots of little details. Keep thinking and don't get jaded.

[bruce_rubenstein]

People have different views on what assisting is good for and what you can learn from doing it. My personel take on it, from assisting on a bunch of wedding shoots, is the following:

 

Assisting is not a photography workshop in the creative, image making sense. You don't get to see what the photographer sees in their viewfinder, and if you're second shooting, they don't look through yours. If you want your pictures to be better, take a workshop or get a good photographer to sit down with you, review your work and give you specific comments. Yes, you can pick up technical pointers about things like lighting, but primary benifits of assisting is not to improve your skills as a photographer.

 

The main things to be learned about wedding photography by assisting are: what has to be shot, working effiecntly and working with people/subjects and photography gear. A wedding day has some standard type shots that you should be awear of. Different cultures have different wedding ceremonies, and it helpes to know what happens when and what's important. There is rarely enough time alloted to the formals/groups/B&G shots. Working with a photographer who has dealt with this issue many times can save you an awful lot of grief when you do this yourself. You will also get a feel for their work flow: film or digital. Since you're taking pictures of mostly people it's good to what how someone works to quickly to make people look good in pictures. Gear: long time photographers know first hand what works well. Working well means gives good/professional results and doesn't fall apart. This isn't just camera and lenses, but other key things like bags, sync cords, radio slaves, etc.

[chris m., central florida]

Good for you! You are on the right track!

 

I'm not the best photographer by far, but I'm getting better and much more profitable. Want to know why? Because I assist other photographers whenever I've got some free time. Every time I shoot with a new photographer, I pick up a tip or two that helps me to produce great photos while shooting my own weddings and portraits. So far, I can list at least 20 new things I've learned about posing, capturing detail shots, interacting with clients, running my business, etc., and that's only from the past several assisting jobs. So I feel that I am becoming very well prepared for anything that's thrown at me. I only wish I saw the light years ago.

 

The photographers I assist are very good at what they do and two of them have become good friends - which means they have no qualms whatsoever about offering constructive criticism of my work or challenging me to do something differently. Right now I'm concentrating on learning to see more shots before they happen. Yeah, I can do it, but some of these really good PJ guys are prediciting emotional responses; they're thinking five moves ahead and their images show it.

 

Also, what Al said is right. Shoot some other stuff. It opens your eyes and you see things in a new way. And the above guy gave you great advice about taking seminars and courses. For me, I knew I needed to take courses in how to use off camera lighting. It's helped tremendously.

 

Assisting is real world, hands on training. Keep doing it - just make sure you assist a photographer that has something to offer you in return besides money.

[fotografz]

Interesting perspective. Person thinks or admits they suck (fake humility?), but doesn't

think they need to learn anything from anyone via actual shared experience.

 

Even gifted people who have a knack for any given pursuit seek out those who are

experienced in order to better fulfill their gift... or at least fulfill the potential quicker. It

doesn't necessarily mean they lack confidence in their current skills or abilities, just that

they recognize there is a benefit to absorbing other experiences

 

When I work with my partner, he is officially the 2nd shooter and I the lead shooter. He

considers it "assisting" but in actuality he is hardly an assistant (he's the Governor of

Michigan's Executive photographer and certainly does not lack one iota of confidence or

skill with a camera ).

 

At weddings he compliments my style of shooting, and frankly, I've learned quite a bit

from him about interacting with subjects ... a skill I am very good at, but he is the best I've

ever encountered. In turn, he has learned a great deal from me in terms of creative ideas,

composition, and lower light photography. Neither of us need each other, but become

more as an individual every time we shoot together.

 

Hell, I learned a thing or two working with Al Kaplan on just one wedding last Spring. So, I

guess it depends on who you are working with. I have to believe it woke up some areas of

potential for ol' Al also.

 

You're never to old or to good to learn something from others. Assisting is a great

tradition to do that. Man, I'd assist a few people here on this forum in a New York nano

second if given the chance.

[al_kaplan1]

Yup, it did awaken some areas of my brain to work with Marc. I really hadn't shot too many weddings in the previous few years. Watching him work with his Leicas and his Hasselblad gave me some new ideas. The most important thing to me is not his choice of equipment or the poses he uses. I like to see how other photographers relate to their subjects, talk with them, get them relaxed and at ease. How they, on the one hand, "take charge" and yet remain unobtrusive and blend into the background, largely unnoticed. The biggest compliment I can get afterwards is "Did you get enough pictures? I hardly saw you taking any photographs all evening!" when I'm thinking that I shot 4 rolls more than I'd planned because it was a long reception and I just loved the ethnic dancing.

 

I've never had a studio or really attempted to cultivate a wedding business over the years. Most of what I've done over the past few decades has been commercial, photo journalism, and public relations type photography with a heavy emphasis on political coverage. In some cases I've actually had people come to me for wedding photography and I've referred them to other photographers. In turn, when they get overwhelmed with wedding business I'll shoot for them, either covering an affair myself, assisting at a huge one, or on occasion just finishing up at a reception as they rush off the the next ceremony. But one hand washes the other. When I need a "real" studio on occasion I have access to one for an hour or two, and usually leave behind a roll or two of hardly used background paper I needed for the shoot.

 

I don't look at working with another photographer so much as "assisting" as just doing what needs to be done, whether it's setting up lights or lugging cases of lighting equipment, shooting some photos of the groomsmen while the other photog is getting pix of the bride and her entourage finishing their hair and make-up.