Leica 35/2.0 Summicron 3rd Version

[tommy_baker]

Just wanted to know if all these were made only Canada, I have never seen

any made in Germany. Also, wanted to know what are the physical and

handling changes to the lens from the 2nd Version apart from the aperture

control stick.

 

Any likes/dislikes about this lens..

 

Thanks for your responses

[Rob F.]

I used to think there were no optical changes between the second & third versions, and even said so here once or twice. But now I have the current (7th) edition of the Hove Leica Pocket Book. The lens info isnow given more fully, courtesy of Erwin Puts. At any rate, Erwin says that with the version III, the diameter of the inner group of elements was increased. He also says that there is a version with infinity lock, and a later one, without it. He believes that the infinity lock was dropped about the same time as the optical change, but he's not definite about that. He does not lavish as much praise on the versions II and III for optical performance as he does on versions I and IV, except to note that the reduction from 8 to 6 elements improved contrast.

 

Pictures of some 35's made during this time frame often show a deeply recessed front element, similar to that of the f/2.8 Summaron. Pictures of other lenses show a front element closer to the filter threads, not recessed, but still in the version II/III category, not yet a IV. I assume, for now, that this change may have happened at the same time as the lens lost its aperture control tab and infinity lock. But I wonder if these changes may have occured one-by-one, gradually, blurring any sharp distinctions between versions II and III. That might be why it is so hard for some of us to get a handle on which version is which! I own versions I and IV, but not II or III, so I have to rely on pictures, which do not always show enough detail, and are often not accompanied by a clear statement as to which it is.

[ferdi_cheuk]

From what I know, the 2nd and 3rd versions are optically the same. There are Germany-made lenses but are more rare than the Canada ones. But I'm not sure by how much.

[ben z]

AFAIK the infinity lock was only on the 1st-type (8-element)and never appeared on the III. What Erwins says about the II vs III is that the III has better peformance on axis and worse off axis than the II. Well I've been shooting with a III for at least 10 years and I know Al Kaplan has the same kind of lens and shoots a lot more than me. I haven't heard him complain about the off-axis performance and I can't see anything I'd want to improve about it either. Then again neither of us has probably shot pictures of a resolution test chart recently : )

[stephen_w.]

Sartorius writes that only the body was changed going from II to III, for "whatever reason" (quotes by me).

[Rob F.]

Here's a <a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3859333033&fromMakeTrack=true">LINK</a> to some good photos of what I would say is a version III. The serial number is for 1976, placing it toward the end of the 1969-79 production time window. Note the front element is not deeply recessed.

[Rob F.]

"What Erwins says about the II vs III is that the III has better peformance on axis and worse off axis than the II."

 

I wonder how much of such differences could be due to sample to sample variations?

[james_itard1]

A friend of mine had trouble with vignetting wide open with what I presume is

Summicron version 2 and tried to have Leitz New Jersey fix it, but they were never

able to. He finally found another photographer who had the same problem and they

assumed it was a design flaw. Perhaps the larger diameter middle elements change in

version 3 was to fix this...

And a respected Canadian Leica dealer I spoke to in 1994 rated the Summicrons in

this order:

1.) Latest version (v.3 or v.4?);

2.) Summicron version 1;

3.) Summaron 2.8;

4.) Summicron version 2;

5.) Summaron 3.5.

I know this is a bit vague and overly anecdotcal, but...

[rgh]

I think its a given that any [pre-ASPH] 35mm Summicron will make a great photographic

tool, and its more up to the photographer to get the most out of the lens be it 1st-2nd

-3rd or 4th version. The only real world photo differences would be better flare control

and a bit higher contrast as version progressed, but I'm not sure if these differences would

be the 'make or brake' factor in the actual photograph.

 

But as 'Leica Photographers' we're always trying for the 'best' [for ourself] it seems.

Sometimes that 'best' has to do with handling characteristics, or even just how we feel

about a certain lens.

 

It was hard to improve on the 1st version Summicron in the late 60s, one of Leitz best

made lenses and its popularity even now has a reason - its a beautiful lens that can make

great photographs.

 

The Second version came about I believe to save on production costs and a 6 vs 8 element

design can do that, to save on cost they even left out the 39mm filter thread!. Keeping

with the Leitz lens philosophy of 'improvement even with less' (I do remember hearing

something to this effect from the company back then), they did boost contrast a bit. The

lenses mount itself was made to a minimum size and that was its problem, for most that

little 2nd version aperture tab was just too little and so a '3rd version was made with a

redesigned mount and I think a small tweak in the lens formula. The 4th version was back

up to 7 elements and improved the performance a bit, aperture ring was now very easy to

adjust and a new designed hood. One former photo.net member used to point out the use

of glue rather than set screws in the 4th version (cheaper design), but then that's the way

Leica works now with many of their new lenses and even the M-series finder using a set

glued in design. Not a problem till you started to use the nice little hood to mount and

unmount the lens.

 

If you get a good price on whatever version you can't go wrong.

[joop]

Tommy, I have the 3th version, #2484xxx, and I'm pleased with it.

I saved once a text about the older 35-crons from Erwin Puts website, and I cannot find it back on his site any more. Here you have it:

 

 

2/35 (1): for M: moderate wide angle

lens of high speed and good optical

quality (from 1958).

 

This lens is the first high speed wide angle lens for the Leica RF

bodies (M and TM), designed in Canada. It is a symmetrical 8 lens

Double Gauss type and delivers image quality, typical of the

state of the art of its day. At full aperture overall contrast is low,

with a central disk of good definition, becoming quite soft in

the outer zones. Fine detail is resolved with soft edges. At

f/2.8 contrast jumps to medium/high and indicates a lot

of internal flare. From f/4 image quality is very good and at f/8

the optimum is reached. Now we have a level of definition that can

show itself favorably in comparison to more recent

designs, that reach comparable and better quality at wider

apertures. It is a very compact design and should appeal to all

who are proud of using a good quality lens with very smooth

and durable mechanical qualities.

 

Summicron 2/35 (2): for M:

moderate wide angle lens of high speed

and good optical quality (from 1969).

 

This lens is the second version of what has come to be known as

THE classical Leica RF lenstype. Again designed in Canada, it is

now a symmetrical 6 lens Double Gauss type and delivers at full

aperture a higher overall contrast. Definition in the center

portion of the image has been improved, but the outer zones are

now not as good as with the previus version. Stopping down

improves overall contrast, due to less scattering of light, but the

general improvement when stopping down is a bit reluctant.

At medium apertures the quality is close to, but not as good as the

8-element version.

 

This design and its ergonomics (focusing tab) are clearly attuned

to the demands and expectations of photojurnalists, who need a

fast focusing, good contrast lens and who pay less attention to the

definition of ery fine detail in the outer zones.

 

Summicron 2/35 (3): for M:

moderate wide angle lens of high speed

and moderate to good optical quality

(from 1969 or 1973).

 

Not well known is the existence of a second version of the six

element 2/35 lens, which has a slightly different fimgerprint. It

delivers somewhat higher contrast in the center portion of

the image, and as its predecessor hardly improves on stopping

down in the outer zones and corners of the lens. The central

disk of about 12mm in diameter on the other hand has a high

contrast image when stopping down to f/4.

 

also on this site there's some info on these lenses:

http://www.kbcamera.com/summicron35mm.htm

Cheers,

Joop