Would you choose M2 over M6 as your first? I did...

[denis_pleic]

Here's the summary of my first Leica purchase - might be interesting

to other Leica newbies preparing for their first purchase.

 

Well, first I'd like to say thank you to all who responded to my

question a while ago here on Leica forum ("Advice needed before

purchase of first Leica").

 

I've also read as much as I could from the forum archives regarding

the idiosyncrasies of different M bodies and lenses.

 

I've also received several kind offers to my WTB post - but decided

that the first Leica should be handled "in person" before purchase -

so yesterday I went to the nearest second hand shop which had Leicas

(about 200 km away, across two borders!).

 

The gents at the shop were kind and helpful, and they let me try some

color film with a black M6 and several lenses they had for sale.

 

After developing the film at the nearest one-hour lab, and looking at

the photos, the decision was soon made.

 

Although the M6 they had was in very good condition (no scuffing,

marks, etc., and with that plastic film still protecting the bottom

plate, but not exactly mint), I decided for a good user M2 (and saved

about 200 Euro on the price) and a "damaged" collapsible Summicron

50/2, with visible cleaning marks and some coating damage (two or

three dots on the coating, of about 1 - 1,5 mm diameter).

 

Why the M2, and not M6 for slightly higher price? Well, it wasn't

because the price! I'd gladly pay more for obviously newer, cleaner

and technically more "advanced" camera.

 

My main gripe was RF patch flare. Every few seconds the patch would

turn white, which made focussing almost impossible... And I didn't

like those two meter LED triangles much, either... Although a built-in

meter is a nice thing - but I much prefer the match needle solution.

The LED confused me quite a bit - I even asked the guys at the store

if the meter is functioning OK... Also, I'm not a professional, and I

usually don't shoot more than a roll or two at a time, so the knob

rewind on M2 is not much of an issue. And, the classic chrome M2

somehow attracted me more :-)

 

As for the lens, my main drive behind the Leica purchase is the desire

to get that "Leica glow", "3D" or whatever you want to call it - for

available light shots, street stuff, etc. - but without breaking the

bank.

 

The test photos were very helpful. I tested an old collapsible LTM

Summitar 50/2 (damaged lens - no major physical damage, but focuses

wrong), a rigid Summicron 50/2 (SN 175XXXX), another collapsible

Summicron (SN 137XXXX) with damaged coating, an almost new black

collapsible Elmar 50/2 in black, and finally, a great black newer

Summilux 35/1.4. Also a few shots with my own chrome Jupiter 8 (50/2,

LTM mount from my Zorki 4), which I brought with me, just to make sure

I'm not buying a myth :-)

 

Results? The photos showed it all: the 35 mm Summilux 1.4 was an

absolute king - even on 10x15 cm photos, you could clearly see the

great bokeh and the 3D effect - however, the lens was priced at 1.300

EUR (approx. $1,500), which is waaaay too much for me... I wanted a

50mm lens as my first, anyway :-)

 

A few Russian Jupiter shots were helpful - those really showed that

Leica glass has a definite "look" to it. The Jupiter isn't bad at all,

mind you, but it's just more "flat". So, it has proven that the "Leica

look" is not a myth.

 

So, the decision was between a rigid chrome Summicron and a

collapsible one with damaged coating. The damaged one was less than

half the price of the supposedly "good" one. The photos (ALL taken

without any shade) showed some flare on both lenses. The sharpness,

contrast, bokeh, etc. on both were fairly similar. So, it was easy - I

went for the "damaged" collapsible one - makes for a small package

when collapsed :-)

 

I also got a dysfunctional LTM Summitar with LTM-M adapter as part of

the deal, practically for free. BUT, the photos show that it doesn't

focus properly: the focus is *behind* the plane on which the lens was

focused. And it seems that the focusing difference is not always

consistent... :-(

 

BTW, any ideas for a relatively inexpensive repair of the mis-focusing

LTM Summitar? Since I got it "free", I might even try some DIY on it.

Any pointers, Web pages, instructions on how to approach it?

 

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my excitement!

 

If anyone wants to see the test photos, just ask, and I'll probably

put them on the Web somewhere. Nothing special - just shots of me and

my friend in different lighting.

 

Regards,

 

Denis

[furcafe]

The M2 was cheaper & I was already used to using old, meterless cameras.

[james mitchell dc]

I agree with your "gripe" about the M6's rangefinder flare. I used to have a 1998 Solms model and had given up on the idea of owning another M6 until I saw a friend's older Wetzlar model, whose rangefinder was comparable to my M2's. I eventually did get another M6 classic from 1985 and love it.

[alex coleman]

Hi Denis

Having just purchased my first Leica an M2 from 1958 Button Rewind Version and I am extremely happy with my choice.

Viewfinder is excellent I love the single framing for each lens although as yet I have only got a 35mm Summicron 4th version.

The camera has a beautiful silky feel in your hands, something that I have never felt with my Nikons.

Copy and Paste link to my First pictures from it which I posted earlier.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009A2F

 

Happy Shooting and Enjoy

Alex.

[godfrey]

Sounds like you've found what works for you.

<br><br>

I had 5 Leica Ms over the time period when I was shooting with them... M2, M4-P, M3,

M6TTL, M4-P again. And a CL. My favorites were the CL and the M4-Ps, particularly the

second of the two I had. I wish Leica had developed the CL a little further and put an M6

type metering system in it as, form factor wise, that was my favorite of all.

<br><br>

The viewfinder flare in the M6TTL was annoying although I liked the convenience of having

the meter in the camera. I preferred the fast load system and automatic frame counter

compared to the M2 and M3, although the fewer frame line options in the M2 would have

been fine for me. Were I in the market for another M, I'd most likely look for another M4-P

body.

<br><br>

Godfrey<br>

<i>... wax whimsical about the days of film ... </i>

[dan flanders]

I don't have access to a Summitar, but I have a Summar and 3 Summicrons. It occurrs to me that someone might have disassembled the Summitar and put the helicoid back together wrong. If you can find a depth micrometer measure the distance from the rear flange to the focusing cam in two positions: <p>

Flange to cam @ infinity: 7.7mm.+/- <p>

Flange to cam @ close focus: 4.5mm +/- <p>

Total travel of cam: 3.2mm +/-

(Measurements were taken from screw mount lenses and are approximate because I am away from my shop and do not have a precision micrometer available). <p>

If the measurements you obtain do not match the above then it should be inferred that the helicoid is not properly assembled. There doesn't seem to be any other reason that the infinity focus should be off in the Summitar. If the helicoid is off just one thread, it might account for the focusing problem. The Summitar is a fine lens and it would be worth it to have a professional correct it, but since it cost you little you might learn by doing it yourself.

[dford]

I did choose the M2 over the M6 as my first. I like using the 35mm lens most and the M2, with the uncluttered viewfinder, is king with the 35. Just a very enjoyable experience. For the want of an internal meter, I compromised and bought the M6 classic and sold (sob) the M2. I recently have a jones for an M2 again; there just maybe another M2 in my future. Enjoy yours.

[andy m.]

I sold my M6 once I had obtained a nice M2, supposedly as a second body. I liked the feel much more. I then decided to look for an M3 as second body instead ;-)

[al_kaplan1]

The M2 was the greatest camera Leitz ever produced!

[djl251]

On The Summitar; If the lens was dissembled and re-assembled with the wrong helical

thread - the range finder would still work but the distance scale would be off. Now if

someone ground down the cam to make the distance scale right then your lens would be

really seriously damaged.

 

On The M2 - I am not crazy about my M6 - the flare is annoying, the film jams and the

shutter has malfunctioned. It feels like its going to break. I usually leave home with my

M3 or IIIc. I'd like to get an M2 if I could get it past my wife. I could just tell her it was

something I sent out for repair. . .

[andy m.]

<i>I could just tell her it was something I sent out for repair. . .</i><p>

 

LOL, my wife was looking suspiciously at a camera I had sent out for service recently... She thought I was trying to sneak a new camera past her ;-)

[denis_pleic]

Harry G., Donald L.,

 

Thanks for the info on the Summitar.

 

Harry: I've checked the cam-flange distances, and although I do not have a very precise instrument, it seems that the measurements *are* as you indicated...

 

However, I forgot to mention one thing: when I inspected the lens last night, one thin brass ring fell off the front of the lens. Just a thin brass ring, that *seems* to fit around the front lens element, where the threads are.

The picture is attached.

I'd appreciate any idea or info on dissasembly and/or testing to see what's wrong. Web resources, anything really...

 

Thanks,

 

Denis<div></div>

[jorge]

>> I'd like to get an M2 if I could get it past my wife. I could just tell her it was something I sent out for repair. . . <<

 

My wife thinks my M2 and my IIIf are the same. I make an effort that she never sees them together ;-)

[djl251]

Well she still hasn't seen the 4x5 I bought so I must be doing something right.

[victor_randin]

Denis:

 

The ring must be placed inside the lens between the lens block and the main lens mount. NOT under the front element! Unscrew the whole lens block (the front knurled ring, one or two screws) and get on the ring and assemble the lens. Then check the lens focussing at infinity using a thin (0.8 ? 1.0mm) ground glass inserted in the film channel. Set the shutter speed at B, when checking.

[alex_fan]

Denis,

 

I also took your path. I bought an user M2 as the 'entry' to RF mainly because of it is less costly and I was not sure if RF is suitable for me. I am now greatly enjoy my M2 with a 50 summicron. It provides the excitement and enjoyment that my SLR and DSLR cannot deliver.

 

Alex

 

Enjoy shooting.

[tommy_baker]

Al, you almost got it right...

 

The M2-R was the greatest camera Leitz ever produced.