Contax T3 - User Comments, Discussion

[derek_bem]

Re he shutter lag: sorry, can not agree with the view that "T3 has

coped with this problem better than any design on a P&S". The shutter

lag problem has been solved in many better P&S cameras years ago.

Just one example: Canon Sure Shot Z90w (below $200) and its Real Time

Release option of 0.02sec...

 

<p>

 

For me the very basic requirement for P&S camera is: grab it, press

the shutter release, expect to hear 'click'. Only once I know that

the camera can 'click when I press' I am showing interest in lens,

build quality, manual overrides, etc, etc. But if I wait with my

finger pressed for the shutter to fire, what good is superb Carl

Zeiss lens? The end effect of using $10 disposable camera and a $700

camera with shuter lag is too often the same: a photograph goes to

the rubbish bin.

 

<p>

 

On the other hand, if single seconds do not count, if you enlarge

your prints to poster size and expect them to be razor sharp -- why

not get a bit larger, fully manual rangefinder or SLR and a good hand

held spot meter? Or even mid format gear?

[charles_stewart1]

In answer to Derek's somewhat rhetorical question, I would say that

the quest for the "perfect" point and shoot is driven by one thing:

portability. It's the idea of having a camera from which pro or near-

pro results are possible, with you all the time. It is simply not

practical to do this with an idustrial-strength SLR, a Hasselblad, or

a view camera. So all these folks - myself included - are hoping for

something along these lines without the minor annoyances that

characterize so many of these little cameras, developed as they are

more for the amateur market. That's why the T3 is intriguing at the

moment. We're looking for something that has all the best

characteristics of this type of camera, with as few drawbacks as

possible - from the point of view of discriminating photographers,

that is. Serious photographers really do have uses for this type of

camera, despite its inherent limitations. Some of my nicest prints

have been made with negatives from my Yashica T4. If you were to use

a Hasselblad to take the same pictures under the same conditions, you

could compare them side-by-side and judge the Hasselblad print to be

technically superior, but it's academic: most of those pictures I

could never have made with a Hasselblad - I grabbed them by being

able to pull the T4 out of my pocket, point, and capture a fleeting

situation - no lens-changing, focussing, exposure determinations,

fitting on external flash, etc. That's why these cameras are

desirable.

[derek_bem]

I agree with Charles, portability is very important. So is quality.

But so is speed of using the camera: I press, click it goes. Yes,

selecting a P&S is always a compromise, and two out of three

(portability, speed, quality), or even one out of three is perfectly

acceptable in a $150 P&S.

 

<p>

 

However we have here a $700 equipment which is the result of many

years of model evolution. This means that it should be judged using

stricter criteria: how well it implements all three requirements, or

even: has it pushed the standards a bit further?

 

<p>

 

So what has happened here -- the T3 designers 'forgot' about 'no

shutter lag' option, which can be found even on some $190 P&S's? Or

did marketting assumed that labels 'new', 'Contax' and 'Carl Zeiss'

will sell the camera anyway, so why bother?

 

<p>

 

Yes, T3 is intriguing, it is very nice, very well build. And with a

price tag, say $250 I can forgive it the shutter lag. For $700 I can

not forgive it anything.

[ccrevasse]

How does the T3 lens compare to the Minilux lens in terms of image

quality? Also, how is focus accuracy with the T3? Is focus lock

easy to engage without inadvertantly triggering the shutter? How

about fill flash - easy to use and accurate exposure-wise? Finally

(and I know this is subjective), what do you think about the 35mm

focal length as a general-purpose lens? Thanks, everyone.

[john_mccormack]

Re:

"So what has happened here -- the T3 designers 'forgot' about 'no

shutter lag' option, which can be found even on some $190 P&S's?"

 

<p>

 

I think you're missing the point of the shutter options on the T3

listed in my 5/21/01 message above. Contax didn't "forget" about

shutter lag and then say, "Oops, we better fix that." The T3 *offers*

these options which result in minimum shutter lag at least as quick as

the Real Time release of the Canon Sure Shots. Even in normal

operation (lens extension after pressing shutter 1/2 way) the T3

responds very quickly.

 

<p>

 

I can't comment authoritatively on image quality compared to the

Minilux; more testing needs to be done (by someone more skilled than

I.)

 

<p>

 

AF is usually quick, but it's the Passive type so not as fast overall

as the Active type on the Minilux if focusing on a blank surface.

 

<p>

 

Fill flash is easy to use and can be set as the default at power up.

Flash exposures have been very good so far, except when using the

macro mode at less than about two feet (some overexposure noted).

 

<p>

 

Overall metering is excellent (I wish I knew more about how the T3

meter reads a scene.)

 

<p>

 

My first posted T3 image (print scan only) is at:

http://www.photo.net/photo/236471&size=md

[john_mccormack]

Correction:

"Even in normal operation ([NO] lens extension after pressing shutter

1/2 way) the T3 responds very quickly."

[derek_bem]

"Even in normal operation (lens extension after pressing shutter 1/2

way) the T3 responds very quickly."

 

<p>

 

Sorry, John, it appears that I did not make myself clear. In NORMAL

operation T3 has noticable, measurable shutter lag, and it normal

operation T3 DOES NOT offer an option of instant shutter release.

 

<p>

 

I know that 'shutter lag can be dealt with in several ways on the T3'

but my point is: for $700 this should be solved in a more elegant

way, as $200 Z90W demonstrates.

[charles_stewart1]

True instantaneousness of shutter response is a will-of-the wisp, in

any case, since focussing is tied into the sequence with a P&S in one

way or another. Even if you have prefocussed, you have had to take

the time to, well, prefocus, and then of course your subject can

move. Derek's question seems to be whether response on the T3 is fast

enough, given a $700 outlay, and his answer seems to be no, while

it's "yes" from John's point of view. Seems fine to agree to

disagree there and let it go. What's fast enough for one won't be

for another.

I have a sure shot classic 120, which is only marginally slower in

response, I believe, than the Z90W; in fact the basic operations of

the camera are in most all respects very good, and fast, but the

prints - fast response or no - can't equal my Yashica T4, not at

8X10, anyway. What's elusive is the blend of characteristics:

operational efficiency and versatility, good focussing and optical

resolution, compact size. I'd scrounge up the $700, and gladly for a

fixed focal length camera - I'd rather let my feet do the zooming if

I gain something in image quality - if I thought some manufacturer

had it all together. I may have to wait before they come out with

something that will allow me to leave the big cameras home with any

confidence.

[fabrice_bodet]

Anybody can comment on T3 firing sequence noise vs. the GR1 ?

 

<p>

 

I have the latter and eventhough the autofocus operation is

raisonably quiet, I find the film advance to be quite annoying

indoors in a quiet environment as it is very long (1s+ I guess).

[msitaraman]

The camera is pretty quiet. The film wind is low-pitched. You really

cannot hear the camera in normal street noise...

[ccrevasse]

My two cents, mostly in response to Charles's comments -- it seems to

me that folks interested in a T3 are primarily looking for a compact

camera that provides aperture control and an excellent lens.

Therefore, as long as the shutter response is not unreasonably slow

in pure point and shoot situations, I don't see where there is a

problem. I say this because I rarely use any camera by pointing it

at my subject and expecting the shot to be completed almost

instantly. Instead, in the vast majority of situations, I obtain

focus on my subject, recompose, and check the frame for clutter. If

I am also adjusting aperture, then the process is slower still.

Because the T3 offers both a focus lock button and the choice of

moving the lens during half-depression of the shutter release button,

shutter response should be nearly instantaneous after focus is

achieved. So, to me, it seems almost irrelevant that in pure point

and shoot situations, the shutter lag may be 1/4 to 1/2 second rather

than something less -- too few of my photos are pure "point and

shoot" to let that potential drawback diminish the T3's other

features.

[charles_stewart1]

Yes, Chris, I agree: people's needs are going to vary as to

performance of individual components, such as shutter delay. I, too,

find I focus and recompose a lot, and there it is the portablility -

the "always having a camera with you" aspect that shines with a point

and shoot, rather than it's strength as an action camera. I do find

there are times when I want to capture something like dancing, where a

given moment or instant gives the "right" image, and my T4 super won't

oblige me in those situations, so that's why I'd like a camera with

comparable or better image quality, and the ability to seize a key

moment during more rapid action. All these cameras have one thing

going for them in that respect: there is no image blackout at the

instant of exposure, as there is with an SLR, so you do get

confirmation in that the sound of the shutter gives a very good

approximation of what you will have captured as you look through the

finder. The trouble with the T4 is that the focusing, shutter click,

and advance are difficult to separate aurally, so you don't *know*,

the way you do with a Leica M camera, for example. But with the

traditional rangefinder, unless you zone focus, you have the same

focus/recompose steps to slow you down if you don't want the subject

in dead center. There the SLR is better, as you can focus anywhere on

the groundglass, essentially eliminating the recompose step. Does

anybody have any experience with the eye-focus cameras - Canon, isn't

it? - where the camera reads where your eye is looking and focusses

there? Does it work as billed?

I've been in photography a long time, and have learned to get at least

some of these shots with effort and perserverance - anticipating where

action peaks will occur and focussing there, etc. - but I'm lazy

enough to go for any technological shortcut if I'm convinced it will

work.

[derek_bem]

If you bought T3 for $700, you now own a great P&S. If you are

reading this list because you are still uncertain -- have a look at

soon to be released Rollei Prego 30 (around $200), and ask yourself

this question: isn't T3 terribly overpriced? Is it three and a half

times better then Rollei?

 

<p>

 

http://www.photographyreview.com/tradeshow/pma_01/General/general3.sht

ml

[j._woo]

I'm a new Contax T3 user, formerly a Leica Minilux user. I can

attest that the lenses between the two are neck in neck in terms

of sharpness. Pleasant bokeh on the T3 and corner falloff is not

unpleasant at wide aperatures. The T3 seems a quiter overall--

focus is definitely quieter, and advance is slightly quieter. The

noisiest thing about the camera is turning it on-- the lens pulls

out with a loud motor noise similar to the Minilux.

 

<p>

 

The T3 is a clear winner over the Minilux in terms of portability

(it's pocketable). The ability to remember your default flash

setting is reason alone to consider the T3 over the Minilux. The

T3 is more unwieldy when it comes to manual focus, but for a

point-n-shoot like this you probably won't be using MF too much.

You can always prefocus the lens, and even lock focus for the

duration that the camera is on, a great feature (handy for street

photography-- ASA 400, outdoors, lock focus at 2 meters, and

shoot away!)

[ls_greenberg]

I just purchased a T3 and think its a fine camera. However,

the camera has a major omission. AEL cannot be used

independant of AEF unless you are in manual focus mode.

This is a really silly configuration . You can't step up close to your

subject lock in an exposure and then step back and recompose.

The focus will lock at the distance you metered!

[philip_bonner]

The more I work with the camera the more I learn to appreciate the

logic of the custom settings. For example, the T3 focus options are

perfectly adequate for action shots or for more careful composition

shooting when constant racking/focusing of the lense is not needed.

 

<p>

 

For instance, the T3 can be set to autofocus at half shutter release.

This results in virtually no more shutter lag than would be

experienced with any other autofocus camera when it telescopes and

racks the lense to lock-on focus. The T3 lense focusing is very

quick.

 

<p>

 

For example, if I am shooting my 2 year old son and other action

shots I keep it at this setting and am satsfied that I am catching

the action.

 

<p>

 

If I am using the camera to do more careful (non-action shot)

compositions, I set it to default so that the lense will be

constantly racking to focus until until after the shutter release is

pressed completely down.

 

<p>

 

That way while repeatedly composing and metering a scene, the lense

is not constantly, (and needlessly), racking to and fro on the

subject (as would be required on a SLR to properly view the

prospective photo). This preserves batteries and avoids extraneous

wear and tear on the camera.

 

<p>

 

Another useful custom setting is the option to engage/disengage AE

when using the separate focus lock button that is located on top of

the camera adjacent to the shutter release button. One can select

whether to lock both focus and AE upon depressing focus lock button

or to lock-in only focus.

 

<p>

 

If only autofocus is selected then one can take focus an exposure

setting sfrom two separate spots on the subject, i.e; Lock focus and

then take a separate AE reading by depressing he shutter release

halfway down.

 

<p>

 

This camera's functions are exceptionally versatile; particularly for

a cameras as small as a hard pack of Marlboro cigarettes.

 

<p>

 

I love mine and was hearbroken when I dropped it onto some rocks

while on vacation last week in the mountains. It still continued to

take perfectley exposed pictures. However, since it suffured a

serious ding to the top of the case, I sent it in for a check/repair

to revalidate the three year warranty.

 

<p>

 

BTW I also have a Minilux Zoom for my wife who is not proficient in

making cameras exposure settings. I believe the photos from my T3 are

ever so slightly sharper than her Minilux zoom.

 

<p>

 

However, since I do not know the settings, (aperture, speed) made by

each camera when making the shots of the same subject, I could be

mistaken. Also we use different films in each camera and, if I must

say so myself, I am a far better picture taker.

 

<p>

 

Suffice to say, both cameras consistently deliver beautiful,

stunning, crisp photos and we are immensely pleased. The Leica with

CF flash seems to produce a slight, lovely luminescent to perfectly

colored flesh tones using Fuji NPS 160.

 

<p>

 

The T3 produces eye popping, vividly clear outdoor/sunlit shots with

Reala and NPH 400. John McComack's T3 sample photo using NPC is

likewise vividly stunning. I've got to try some of that stuff (NPC).

 

<p>

 

Untill my disaster dropping the T3 I was happily experimenting with

both cameras. Both have their own unique, great solid feel.

 

<p>

 

I'll file a follow-up report on the T3 repair and Contax customer

support. I can't wait to get my gem of a camera back in-hand.

 

<p>

 

After seeing my T3 bounce off some rocks, I've been getting in the

habit of slipping the wrist strap over my hand whenever I remove my P

& S cameras from their cases.

[philip_bonner]

Corrrectin to my Posting, directy above:

 

<p>

 

The incorrect sentence, "I set it to default so that the lense will

be constantly racking to focus until until after the shutter release

is pressed completely down."

 

<p>

 

Should read: I set it to default so that the lense will NOT be

constantly racking to focus until until after the shutter release is

pressed completely down.

[john_mccormack]

<html>

 

<head>

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;

charset=windows-1252">

<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">

<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">

<title>Re</title>

</head>

 

<body>

 

<p> I have added a few more T3 images shot with Fuji NPC 160. Click <a

href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=122840">here</a>

for the folder. I don't have a great scanner

or scanning skills yet; the scans doesn't do justice to the

prints.</p>

 

<p>I'm now shooting a faster film (NHG II 800) in the T3 and will try

to test

the lens for light fall off at large apertures. I didn't detect any

light fall

off with the lens stopped down. </p>

 

</body>

 

</html>

[john_mccormack]

Re: "AEL cannot be used independant of AEF unless you are in manual

focus mode. This is a really silly configuration . You can't step up

close to your subject lock in an exposure and then step back and

recompose."

 

<p>

 

Not completely true. You can lock AF independent of AEL with the

AFL button and custom function five set to 'A' (focus lock only with

AFL button).

[ccrevasse]

Has anyone seen (and better yet tried) the accessory flash and

bracket? I'm curious about their size and weight, and the quality of

light provided. Also, re the filters: can anyone comment on how

useful a polarizing filter is with a non-SLR camera? I wonder how

successfully you will be able to predict the effect of a polarizing

filter with the T3. Thanks, everyone.

[roger_michel]

what's all this about shutter lag??? as i said in my prior posts,

this is the fastest auto camera i have ever used in AF mode. AND the

release is instantaneous when you prefocus using af lock OR preset

focus in MF mode (as i do for candid street photography). just use

custom setting for pre-extension in any event. shutter lag is JUST

NOT AN ISSUE with this camera. p.s. i'm glad we stopped talking

about the brightlines!! buy this camera -- you will never regret

it. p.p.s. use the shade -- i know it's too expensive, but you will

not believe the improvment in most outdoor settings. you can also

use the FULL RANGE of helipan 30.5 filters once you buy the adapter.

they make everything in this size!! a great benefit.

[skyler_timmons]

Is one required to make manual adjustments to exposure to account for

filters? (I'm ignorantly assuming that metering is done through some

other port besides the taking lens as in other P&S's)

[jmw__]

Regarding the earlier thread regarding AEL (auto-exposure lock)

vs. AFL (auto-focus): you cannot operate AEL independently of

focusing. That is, you cannot step up close to your backlit subject

to lock exposure without also being forced to also focus at a

close distance. Someone please correct my if I'm mistaken.

[robert goldstein]

I don't own a T3 (yet,) but with my T2 it is possible to focus

manually and then set exposure independently with the shutter

release button. Perhaps this would work with the T3 as well.

[john_mccormack]

Re: Metering and filter factors on the T3

 

<p>

 

Yes, metering is done through a separate port, so you must compensate

for the filter, esp. if using slide film. The T3 allows you to set

compensation factors in 1/3 or 1/2 EV steps.