denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I got an old 6x9 folder a few days ago - looks nice, not too much damage, and seems to be fully functional. I'll test it with some film - it takes 120 film (according to the spool I found inside). Now, I'd like to identify it - it has no maker's markings anywhere, apart on the shutter and lens. Shutter is Prontor II (1 sec. - 1/150 sec., plus B and T), and the lens is Rodenstock Trinar-Anastigmat f 4.5, 10.5 cm. Photos follow:<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Photo #2<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Photo #3<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfophotos Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 It looks quite similar to a Voigtlander bessa, but they usually had the name somewhere on the leatherette. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 This one has no marks on the leatherette, no engravings, nothing... I've checked everything carefully - can't find any marks other than what's on the shutter and lens... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiblanke Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hi Denis, <p> there is not much information about this combo (lens/shutter) on the net, mostly in german. It could maybe be an old Adox something? Some nice information is also found <a href="http://www.corff.de/Klappkameras/Klappkameras-8.html">here</a>, although also in german. I hope you can read it. <p> Your camera looks like an older version, the Trinar is not the latest lens and the design of the camera looks like a '20s one. Hope you find the model and have fun shooting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Many different camera makers used Prontor shutters and Rodenstock lenses. Some were made without markings from the makers, and sold by companies as their "house brands". The only thing I can say for sure, is that the camera is from the 1930's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Thanks for the answers, guys. Kai, thanks for the link - interesting... It could be anything, an Agfa, Welta, etc.. But, since it has no identification, it really could be some kind of "house brand"... I'll have to test it, and shoot some 6x9 negs! It's rather compact when folded - could be fun to use! Denis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I had a "St�lma Lyx", sold by the swedish company St�lten & Son. But it was really a Welta Perle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Oh, no dots over the "o" allowed here. Stolma, or Stoelma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I just had to...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgh Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Since there are two red film windows, it must have had the option of using a film gate mask for 6x4.5 images too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 <i> <b>todd goodheart , oct 21, 2004; 12:37 p.m.</b> </p> Since there are two red film windows, it must have had the option of using a film gate mask for 6x4.5 images too.</i> </p> </p> Yes, but both windows are at the same plane (level). I think that the other format would have the other window a bit lower... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patric_dahl_n Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 No, the two windows are for 4,5x6. You use the 6x9 numbers. First No. 1 in the first window. Take the pic. Then advance the film so the 1 shows up in the next window, and then the camera is ready for the second shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 <I><B>Patric Dahl鮠 , oct 21, 2004; 03:24 p.m.</B> </P> No, the two windows are for 4,5x6. You use the 6x9 numbers. First No. 1 in the first window. Take the pic. Then advance the film so the 1 shows up in the next window, and then the camera is ready for the second shot. </I> </P> Patric, could you explain this a bit more. Looking at the "Folder 2" photo above (back side with red windows), does it mean that the number "1" on the film backing should be in the LOWER (first) window? </P> Then I take the first shot, and wind on, until no. 2 appears in the same (lower) window? </P> In short, I have to use the lower window for 6x9 format? </P> Thanks in advance, </P> Denis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_4711 Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hello, I think too is a no name manufacturer camera without brand names in leather. But the rings on ruby window for number count is typical for a Welta camera and with two size too. I'm a owner of a Welta Perle and definitly isn't I think is an earlyer type like Welta without brand name Welta from Freital /Sachsen in Germany near by Dresden. peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_leonard Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 This camera is identical to my Wirgin Auta, except mine has just plain Prontor shutter (4 speeds) and different brand lens (Gewironar vs Rodenstock). Mine takes excellent pictures. Dave http://fotografika.andrysstienstra.nl/kamera.php?ID=120 http://tools.search.yahoo.com/language/translation/translatedPage.php?tt=url&text=http%3a//www.mgroleau.ca/photo/autres_cam/wirgin.html&lp=fr_en&.intl=us http://tools.search.yahoo.com/language/translation/translatedPage.php?lp=de_en&text=http%3a%2f%2fwww.schaum-holzappel.de%2fwirgin%2fauta39.html http://fotografika.andrysstienstra.nl/kamera.php?ID=120&t= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winfried_buechsenschuetz1 Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I don't think that it's a Welta. I have a Welta Trio 6x9 folder which has a totally different strut mechanism. The strut mechanism looks as if this camera was made by Wirgin. 6x9 folders from Adox probably look the same since they were made in the same factory after the Wirgin family had to leave Germany in the 1930s. Wirgin made a lot of cameras for wholesalers, this one seems to be one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgh Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 Denis, You're correct. When shooting as 6x9 you use only the lower (first) window and ignore the second one towards the middle of the camera. Early 120 film only had one set of numbers on the paper backing for 6x9. Since 6x4.5 is half frame, if you had the insert mask in place you would wind #1 to the first window for the first exposure, then wind until #1 was in the second window for the second exposure and repeat this to have 16 frames on a roll instead of 8. After film makers started putting other numbering series on the paper backing, these alternate series for 6x6 and 6x4.5 were in different locations on the film back. The 6x9 was on the left edge, 6x4.5 on the right edge and 6x6 in the middle. So the red window would have been in different locations on the camera back for different formats for cameras made later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted October 22, 2004 Author Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thanks everyone for your help - it's much appreciated! I'm looking forward to testing this cutie with some film - from what I've heard when I got the camera (for about $30), no film has been through it since a very long time - probably something like 30 years! And it still works! Shutter speeds are a little slow, but not that bad. E.g. 1/100 is actually 1/70, or 1/150 is 1/90. 1/50 is almost on the spot... It's useful to have a shutter speed tester, even a DIY one :) Thanks again, Denis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron_gratz Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 "No, the two windows are for 4,5x6. You use the 6x9 numbers. First No. 1 in the first window. Take the pic. Then advance the film so the 1 shows up in the next window, and then the camera is ready for the second shot." Whoa! Something no-one has mentioned is that the above only works if you have a mask inside the camera that blocks out half of the 6x9 film plane. This would be a thin metal sheet that you place over the opening behind the bellows before you load the film. It has a 4.5 x 6 opening that puts the image on a smaller piece of film. If you dont have the mask then the above procedure will put overlapping 6x9 images over each other. Could be creative but not what you want! Ron Gratz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent1 Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I agree with Winfried -- I have a Wirgin Auta 6.3 (Wirgin Gewironar f/6.3 lens, unnamed shutter with T, B, 100, 50, 25); the body and bed appear identical to this example, the film door is the same except for a differently shaped knob for opening the shutters under the framing windows, and my sports finder is similar, though not identical. I think what you have is an Auta 4.5 (albeit likely made for a reseller) -- the Auta 6.3 was apparently a low end model, while the Auta 4.5 (better lens, better shutter) would have been more expensive. FWIW, mine makes very nice images (much better than the cut-rate nature of this model would suggest) when I get the focus right and the bellows leaks don't interfere too much (now that I know where they are, I think I can patch the holes and make a really nice shooter out of this one). I have a 6x4.5 masks with mine, too -- I really, *really* like the effect with the 105 mm lens on the smaller frame (for which 75 mm would be "normal"); since I also have a Moskva-5, I leave the masks in this one and shoot it as a 6x4.5 all the time. It's compact and light, easy to hold, and it cost me $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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