david_simonds Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Friends, I would welcome your suggesstions for a digital point and shoot type camera for my 14 year old son. The simpler the better. He has a good eye for composition, and that is what I would like him to be free to develop. I can teach him about the more technical side of photography when he has more patience. Now it should be about fun. I'd like to keep the cost within the $200-250 range. I have been looking at the Canons, particularly the SD 110. Would this be a good choise? And what size card should I get him - 128meg, 256meg, bigger? Thanks for your suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_young3 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I would highly recommend the Canon SD10, it is a 4.0 Megapixel camera and takes very good photos and extremely easy to use. The flash is very bright for such a tiny camera. It comes with a leather pouch that slips on the belt. The only negative part about small compact cameras is that it will give red-eye in indoor shots, but that's true for all small cameras due to the proximity of the flash to the lense. However, Canon supplies red-eye elimination software in the package which works very effectively and automatically during printing to fix it. I believe the SD110 is obsolete now and is replaced by the SD220. I don't have a SD110 or 220 to comment on. But the SD10 is available for only $199.00 at bway photo: http://www.bwayphoto.com/product.asp?id=cnpssd10bl It is one heck of a good camera, great color, good strong flash. Much better flash than the Sony T1. Take a small SD flash card into a store and take some pictures with it to see if you like it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_herron Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 You can't go wrong with most of the Canons. There are multiple models out there with similar features so I won't try and suggest a particular one, however here's some ideas to keep in mind: I personally would look for one that uses CompactFlash for the memory card. The SD110 is one of the few that doesn't. The S400/S410 or other S models do and have similar features, body, etc. as the SD110. There's a couple of reasons to look for CompactFlash as the memory. (1) It's the memory card used in almost all DSLR cameras (2) it tends to be cheaper to buy -- if you watch rebates, etc. you can often get a 256 CF card for under $15, 512 CF card for $35 and 1GB for about $50. SD cards tend to be higher. Second: Look at the camera's OPTICAL zoom capabilities. Digital zoom is nothing buy a matter of cropping the image. Third: Since you're hoping to teach the technical side, make sure you get one that allows for manual control of the picture. The G-series (G3, G5, etc.) have a good reputation among experienced photographers...a new one may be a bit above your price range, but a used one at KEH.com should be affordable. Fourth: Consider what size of enlaregements he will want to make so you can get an appropriate number of megapixels in the sensor. 3 to 4 MP should be fine for 8x10s, 5-6 MP will be great for 11x14's. Finally: You know your son best...look for a model that will meet his needs and hold up with how he will use it. As far as cards go....I would buy a minimum of 256mb. If it comes down to a choice between two cards or one (ie: 2 256's or 1 512) I would opt for the two. There's nothing more frustrating than having a card mess up on you while on a trip and not having a spare one to stick in the camera until you can get home to deal with the card on the computer. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_waldroup3 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 If you can find a used one on ebay, I suggest the Nikon Coolpix 775. It is now out of production. It is a great little camera with a lot of features. And I mean little, it is tiny compared to most P&S. You ought to be able to pick up a used mint condition one for 100-150.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Small cameras == small battery life. You might want to look at cameras that use rechargable NiMHs instead of tiny proprietary batteries. Certainly battery life is getting better with each new generation of cameras, but for the ultra-compacts it's still very limiting IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 What would be a good choice? From one dad to another dad, more money:) If I had a fourteen year old at home, my son's sixteen, I'd hit the hip and get him a good used D30 with a used 28-135IS attached and go from there. Yes I realize that this is outside the budget you suggested but the above suggestion is a better choice for a fourteen year old then a plain ole vanilla two or three hundred dollar P&S. If the budget is firm, then a Canon A95 should do your son just fine. The A95 is a bit over budget but you're getting more for the money in an A95. But once your son gets a handle on the A95, he's gonna be hounding you for better, if you step up to a used D30 or 10D now, you'll be able to delay the inevitable until graduation; hope, hope, hope:) Hope the above is found helpful and good luck what ever your final decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Just this week Canon announced a slightly smaller replacement for its A85 model. Here's a review: http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_reviews/a85.html You can get the A85 now for $220 sans memory card, or around $250 with a 256MB card. Check out bhphoto.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 David, I agree with Thomas Gardner. Get your son a used DSLR (if you can spare the cash). Best way to learn is on the real thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_young3 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Make sure you don't get him a DSLR yet. It's like hiring a hooker for him when he's only 17 years old. What are you going to do for him when he's 18? Kids need something to look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Phil, he does have something to look forward to - my Rollei 6008i system. Fortunately he has no clue at this point. But he is the kid, who when five years old, leaned over and whispered in my ear, "Dad, who gets the boat when you die?" I am greatful for all your suggestions. You know I never really considersed the SLR route. While considerably more money, the idea has merit. He actually has some time clocked on my old Canon A1 with the 35mm-105mm zoom. I think that I will spend some time on Ebay this evening checking out the options. Again, I am greatful to all you dads and others out there for all your advise and recommendations not only for cameras, but battery and memory card considerations. Come to think of it, an SLR may not be a bad way for the old man to back his way into the digital age. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 "What are you going to do for him when he's 18? Kids need something to look forward to." Why that's an easy one. Either college, a job or the .....:) Choices baby, choices. It's all about choices:) I bought my first camera when I was ten with earned lawn mowing money. Got my hands on my first 35mm way back when I was a kid back in seventh/eighth grade; it was an Exacta. I borrowed it from a lawn mowing customer; processed the film on my knees in a darkened hallway and printed in the Jr H.S. photo lab during lunch time. Kids got it too easy these days:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_young3 Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 David, You're a great Dad, hope you print this thread out and save it for your son when he becomes your age. I'm sure he will appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Phil, you are most kind. In my more cynical moods I sense that gratitude is a quality your kids truly grasp for the first time when they get none from their own....And Thomas, yours is an experience that played out in my life as well - only with an Instamatic. It is the very deluge of "choises" our children face which make their lives, and our jobs as parents, so challenging. We no longer live in a vanilla or chocolate, or Exacta or Instamatic world. In those days, there was time to be a child. And perhaps the absence of infinite choise made it easier to be a kid. I am perilously close to the half century mark, and can quite easily remember three channels on the boob tube, and one movie at the theatre. Where I grew up, in Maine, there was a pace that a child could tap his foot to, one that would not swallow him up. And part of that world, for me, was staring at grainy 3x5 images of Expo 67. They were wonderous. But the world my three boy live in, even in Maine, is far away from my world as a child, even if just a matter of miles. Call me an old fart, but it is troubling to witness how esthetics and vision are sacrificed for eye popping, mind numbing sensual assaults from video games or the latest multi-plex extravaganza. It seduces me too. Your brain craves it, like carbon monoxide over oxygen, despite the consequences. So enter the poor camera, if not an antidote, then at least a refuge. Photography is the art of perceiving. We show our kids how to walk. Teaching your child to see is a parent's obligation as well. A camera, whether Exacta or Canon, is a wonderous tool for that work. And as for choises, the computer makes that image in the view finder nothing more than a suggestion. And those countless choises, Thomas, should inspire us as parents to teach our kids the vocabulary of vision, and to provide the tools and esthetic foundation to make the right choises. Then they can see all the possibilites before them. Is photography, then, a metaphor for life? Why not. A kid could do a whole lot worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 "Call me an old fart, but it is troubling to witness how esthetics and vision are sacrificed for eye popping, mind numbing sensual assaults from video games or the latest multi-plex extravaganza." I like being an "Old Fart" as it's, to me, a badge of distinction and honor to have achieved this time earned honor:) Yes! I'm an "Old Fart" and proud as I work on becoming an even older "Old Fart":) Video games are the evil of the Twenty-First Century which came out of the Twentieth Century. And I love the "latest multi-plex extravaganza" for the couple of hours of escapism they're capable of providing in the comfort of their chairs and sound systems. But they could work on their popcorn making skills:) As a dad, we do's the best we can:) Now the real question. Will you be able to hang out with your son, at the computer, long enough to be able to show him basic Photoshop skills before he shuts down on you and tells you that he's not interested in your stupid photography:) That's the real test. If I can hang with my son for ten minutes worth of conversation, without a fight, I've done something heroic, let alone try and show him how to do something:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Thomas, I could not agree with you more. I have three boys, 16, 14 and 12, and the scourge of computer games is alive and breeding in our home. When I was a kid, we looked out the car window. My kids have infared connections to their Game Boys, and the world passes by unnoticed. My fault, for certain. I am not sure exactly how it happened. Though I will take credit for the total ban on X Boxes and their siblings. But I have noticed lately a strange phenomenon. My 16 year old has turned his gaming skills into programming skills. He whips around the computer faster than I can follow. And he is actually starting to create. The computer is his tool and perhaps the key to his future. But sometime he talks my language, and that is the sweetest of all. We were riding in the car last week when we heard that Philip Johnson had died. Much to my suprise, my 16 year old knew who he was and that he had designed The Glass House in Connecticut. We spent the next 20 mintes discussing whether a structure made entirely of glass could truly be a house. He said no. I said yes. I did not matter who was right. At least he had the vocabulary. Thomas, I wish you well with your brood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 "My fault, for certain. I am not sure exactly how it happened." Video gaming is the best example of a modern day Trojan Horse that was ever conceived. It started with Atari's "Pong," grew into the likes of "Pokemon" and "Doom" and blossomed from there. Much like a gateway drug. Now they're in and about everywhere. Oh! My! Gosh! What ever happened to "Putt Putt Goes to the Moon?" :) Thanks for the thought and the best to you and yours as you do your best to survive the next six to ten years. Look forward to reading what your final decision is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Video games can be bad... But as a kid who grew up with computers from the start of the age (ie, Tandy 1000ex), they are also good. Good to develop multi-tasking skills, managment, hand-eye co-ordination (yes, the mouse is hard at first isn't it?), language, independant thinking, planning, etc, etc, etc. It's just the problem, that boys get caught up in the challenge. I think controlled, moderate use of a computer is fine. But winning is addictive.... Personally, I wish I had been alive in my Father's old days (He was born '37), to have seen the start of Hollywood, the inception of Rock & Roll and V8 muscle cars and the sporting lengends of the day. Of which your parents would have probably disapproved to much of! :P But of course, I do see your point, and know I'll probably feel the same one day about my kids too... I think the worst thing today is that many skilled hobbies today are being replaced by market driven devices that aren't even hobbies but glitz, glamour and status... Good Luck David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 3, 2005 Author Share Posted February 3, 2005 Thomas, a Trojan Horse for certain. NPR reported this moring on a marketing phenomenon that weds advertising with video games. Kids can hyperlink to Nabisco and play a game catching oreo cookies in a glass of milk. Utterly insidious. Peter, if that is not a "market driven " application, I don't know what is. I am no Luddite, but computer gaming, and the time my boys would spend if allowed, is the greatest source of stress in our home. Why can't they spend three hour chunks with a camera? Or at least with Photoshop. I shudder to think what will seduce my grandkids. Best to you both. This has been a most enjoyable thread. The computer does have its charms.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_rivard Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 I see the respondants are nudging your price range up a bit--DSLRs are looking plausible. Here's a retro response, but before you go the DSLR route, have you considered film? An old manual-capable AE camera with a zoom and prime can be pretty cheap, and will be capable of ANYTHING. Mastering focusing and, say, an aperture priority mode won't take much time, and yet will give him an understanding of what aperture, shutter speed, etc. really mean in terms of the final image. When I started, my interests went from general stuff to long (10 m--2 hr) exposure night stuff. I was perfectly happy using one focal length for everything. A friend went nuts with the teles. Someone else might find himself fascinated by taking macro shots of flowers or bugs, or carefully lit portraits, or "decisive moment" street shots. The point is, you and he don't know what direction his interests will fly in, so why not get a cheap system that will accomodate anything (but still produce images of a quality only the very best DSLRs will match)? Then when he starts having more of an idea what sort of thing he wants to do, that's the time to pull out the wallet, so that you're sure what you're shelling out for is what he needs. If you've already got a scanner, he'll have the advantage of using a digital darkroom (or not, but rare is the 14 year old boy who can't get swept into anything on the computer), and since you only need prints for seeing which shots are worth scanning, you can use the cheapest processing (as long as they're nice to your negs:). If he turns out to be a couple-of-rolls-a-month shooter, the film and processing won't kill him, and if he goes nuts and shoots a roll a day, then maybe a quicker move to digital will be in line, but even if it's only a few months later, you'll still have more of an idea of what he'll need and use. This isn't a luddite perspective. I'll never toss over my photoshop to go back into a stinking, orange darkroom, and I'm starting to slaver over DSLRs myself, but I'm at a different stage of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted February 4, 2005 Share Posted February 4, 2005 "I think the worst thing today is that many skilled hobbies today are being replaced by market driven devices that aren't even hobbies but glitz, glamour and status..." Hobbies: Photography, painting, sewing etc. Glitz Glamour and status: Clothes, pre-recorded music, computer games, TV, etc. Basically, I was trying to point out that gaming has it's positives, but it achieves nothing, with no tangible results at the end of the day for anyone else to appreciate hence forward. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough! ;) David, sorry, but I may have not made myself clear with the last statement. You are correct. About hobbies, I meant Painting, Photography and the like - not computer games. that's not a hobby, it's entertainment. Hobbies produce tangible results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 6, 2005 Author Share Posted February 6, 2005 Peter, I do appreciate your contribution and suggestion. While I hesitate to admit it on the Digital Camera board, my sympathies are with you, and with film. Indeed, my son has used my old Canon A1 camera, with the 35-105 zoom. It is a great work horse. But we are going to Israel, and I want my son to have a small and easy to operate camera. And something that does not weigh a ton. I shlepped that Canon up the Matterhorn and know how heavy it can get. And the heavy and complicated camera in the world of a 14 year old is the camera that gets left behind in the hotel room. The Canon is for home, and is, as you say, a great learning tool. But a small digital is a better travelling companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Well heck! Why didn't you say you were going to Israel:) I thought you wanted something for your son to break his eye teeth on while hanging around the home corral.<p> Here's a traveling camera that'll be sure to bring a smile ta the little guy's face:)<p> <a href="http://hotbuyselectronics.com/minolta_dimagez2.htm">Minolta Dimage Z2 Digital Camera</a><p> By the time you finish outfitting him with bag and such, you'll be a bit over budget but not by a whole lot. Is this a better suggestion?<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Here's a review on the <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/konicaminoltaz2/">Minolta Z2 @ dpreview.com</a><p> Hope this helps.<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 What users have to <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/read_opinions.asp?prodkey=konicaminolta_dimagez2">say </a>on the matter of what they personally think of the Konica Minolta DiMAGE Z2.<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_simonds Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thomas, thanks for the suggestion. Seems that my choise at this time is between the Minolta and Canon A85. I would tend to favor the Minolta which reportedly has a very capable video function. Much obliged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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