Safety in national forests/parks - Are you safe?

[robert_kennedy]

This weekend, a hiker disappeared in the National Forest near my

home. He just vanished. He was experienced, had plenty of water,

and was hiking on a well known trail. There is no trace of him at

all.

 

The authorities held a massive search. Nothing. The cops aren't

saying it was foul-play, but I know a few people who can state with

authority that this is just the 'official' line because there is no

evidence of foul-play. Most people think somebody did something very

bad to this poor guy.

 

Which brings up the spectre of safety in the NP/NF system.

 

For me this hit home. The area he disappeared in is one that I shoot

in all the time. This also hits home because of some of the "odd"

things I have seen there.

 

I do two kinds of shooting there. Nature and portraits. It is great

for nature because there is water there year-round (most years) and

this means you get lush plants and tons of critters. I love it for

portraits because the area is great of those outdoor shots. Very

scenic.

 

In my meanderings I have seen some things though. The area I shoot

in usually is downstream from an area used by nudists. Fine by me.

Do what ya want. It works to my advantage because the "nude" area

and the "clothed" area are seperated by 1/4 mile of canyon and people

congregate at either or. I get the stretch to myself.

 

BUT -

 

The reason I stay there is because of what goes on ABOVE the "nude"

area and down in the "clothed" area.

 

Above the nude area there is...ummmm...how shall I put this...an area

where uninhibited, confirmed bachelors engage in physical

interaction. Hey, live your own life I say. But some of the people

who frequent this area are VERY strange. Before I learned what went

on there, I used to hike through the area to get to a cattle tank

where the birds hung out. I soon learned this was not a good idea.

I had two bad experiences there. Very unsettling ones. The first

time I was sitting in the shade having a drink, when I was approached

by a guy who decided to simply drop his pants, sit next to me, and

ask for a few favors! Even if I was gay, I'd at least demand dinner

and a movie first! I got up and said "Uhhh...sorry, I'm straight!"

He then get's up too and starts to follow me (naked mind you), trying

to cajole me into something I REALLY REALLY REALLY didn't want to

do. I eventually had to turn around and say "Look buddy, you can

either walk away now or get flown out on a MediVac!" This worked.

 

I chalked it up to a lone weirdo. And pondered the cruelty of the

universe because this never happens to me with Lauren Graham.

 

A month or so later, I'm taking the same hike. I turn the corner and

find a few guys in flagrante delicto. I turn around to leave and a

rock whizzes by my ear! Which makes me turn around again and I see

these guys throwing rocks at me and screaming bloody murder!

 

I quickly learned to run backwards while ducking.

 

I started asking some questions and learned that "unless you are

looking for action, don't go there".

 

Great. Scratch 2 miles of great birding off my list.

 

What is most disturbing is that this is the PRECISE area where this

hiker disapppeared. Considering the violence and agression shown by

the denizens, one has to wonder...

 

So I start exploring more downstream. Which isn't as nice due to the

amount of people it recieves.

 

And not a few times I have walked past illicit activity there.

Usually drugs. In one case a guy was sitting in front of tent

dividing his HFPoP (Huge F-ing Pile of Pot) into nice baggies! Which

started me thinking "Are they growing it here? Will I walk into a

booby-trap?". A genuine concern in some parts I hear. Of course

this makes me nervous because people with large stashes of drugs tend

to be VERY VERY VERY nervous. Even paranoid.

 

GREAT....

 

Now I'M getting paranoid. I'm adding all this up. Including the

experience of a female friend who was followed out of the forest by a

cargo van all the way to her house (and past to the police station

parking lot where it disappeared...), and I'm thinking:

 

"I must be NUTS to go up there now."

 

I just don't feel safe. Now that someone has gone missing, and the

cops (unofficially) think it was foul-play, I'm really wondering

about safety here. And are all NPs/NFs like this? Have they become

havens for crime? What are your experiences? Is it safe to enter

these places? Should I never go alone?

 

 

[dfdncithekxlbn8kaglf33]

Simply put: Report these happenings, of all sorts, if they are out of bounds and a violation of the rules, whcih they seem to be. Secondly, folow up on your reports. I would be tempted to volunteer to walk plain clothesed official or uniformed up to the area in question to explain.

 

Pull the old, I pay users fees and taxes and I demand. A small group of you inposing you phone messages and time on the manager of the park would get more attention than you might think. Hopefully.

[robert_kennedy]

Yeah...I have reported.

 

Wanna guess what happened?

 

Understaffed and overworked....

 

I'm really interested in what other areas are like. This is the NF that I have spent real time in. Hundreds of hours. Are they all this bad? This one actually borders a metropolitan area and is VERY accessible, which I think is part of the problem...

[craig_gillette]

As you've noticed some public lands are not safe. Most are. I don't worry about other people in National or State Parks. Forest Service or BLM lands are not adequately policed and you need to be aware of that. I think you are now. The agency in charge or locals can tell you what to avoid.

 

I don't travel alone because I don't like the possiblity of accidents or vehicle breakdowns. I like other people I know around when I engage in hazardous or distracting activities because if I can reach an area, so can others. I figure most people are in remote areas because they want to be. Reasons vary. Not all are good.

 

Are they all hazardous and hotbeds of criminal activity. No. should you use judgement and common sense. Yes.

[craig_gillette]

I believe before you noted you were near the Bay area. SoCal has the same problems with public lands near the urban areas. Those near the border have the added bonus of drug and people smuggling. Criminals like the absence of police presence. Go with friends and be aware. But don't stop going.

[bob_finley]

I think it goes with population centers. Here we have a large city park (left natural) that is a transient gay meeting place, a road into the NF that is teenager, GI, 4x4 and beer can infested, and further on the shooters sometimes blast away at anything. All these areas have had crime and deaths and I simply stay away from each as I don't participate in those activities.

 

The vast majority of the NF around here, even some that is close in to the city, is safe and pleasant. You just have to know the areas where not to go. Yes, it is too bad that some think wilderness is just a place that doesn't have many cops but that's life. Bob

[Two23]

You have to live in California, LOL!! Stuff like that would never happen where I live. For one thing, it's cold enough to snow nine months out of the year. For another, most all of us carry guns. You would be wise to just stay clear of the place. AIDS will take care of the bozos in time anyway.

 

 

Kent in SD

[dan_smith]

Of course the forests are not safe. People have been killed in them for centuries. But I bet the numbers are fewer than in the cities.

You have a camera, take a picture of these jokers. Carry a can of pepper spray & nail the nudest in the nuggets if they don't like you around. Hard to chase you & scratch at the same time.

Or, carry a pistol & when the bad guys get too close shoot them & then dump the pistol in the creek, but be sure to come back & take some photos of the dead bodies. Who knows, maybe you can make some money off them?

You are being paranoid.

[daniel_zdonczyk]

Robert, I empathize with you. I would feel the same way as you are after those incidents. I strongly suggest that find other places to do photography if possible. I also eco the tought that you go with other people ie friends total of 3 or 4 people, there is safety in numbers. Also (and I hate to tell you this) take a cell phone to call for help if needed.I hope this helps.

[robert_kennedy]

I do NOT live in the Bay Area. Haven't since I was 6. The area in question is in Arizona.

 

There are also gun toting fools there. Ironically they are FARTHER up the road. Which means the wildlife is NOWHERE to be seen.

[david yama]

Due caution is advised. You are not being paranoid, it is just your instincts kicking in trying to keep you alive. Fear is an instict given to us by nature to warn us. Pepper spray is a good idea, it's easy to carry. I would try to find other areas to shoot if possible. Sucks, but that's life. Just like you probably wouldn't go around Compton (or whatever neighborhood is biggest and baddest right now) and shoot night photos! If you do continue to go to that spot, keep on your toes (but that's no fun).

 

David.

[rick_falck]

If you watch the news and/or read the paper, you will never leave your house. Regardless of what really happened to this one guy, the fact that all of those perverts are up there and only one person has vanished is not exactly cause for alarm. You probably have a better chance of being killed at home or in your car anyway. I do what I can to lessen the chances of being a victim (like being very alert when I am in desolate or strange areas). Carrying a gun would just make me paranoid and feel stupid and ruin the experience anyway. I know this, because I tried it once. Do what you can, and do what you have to do to enjoy your hobby.

[robert_kennedy]

Actually I've been more concerned about the druggies. Me with a big lens could easily get them thinking "NARC!"....

 

This just drove it home.

[alex_p._schorsch]

When I first saw your post, I imagined you were going to talk about the dangers of wild animals. I thought to myself, if he only knew that the worst animals are the two-legged kind. Obviously, you found out for yourself.Here in South America we have the added problem that the Forest Rangers are more likely to attack you than the poachers! I think that you'll just have to implement that good old rule: "The Buddy System" , not only will you feel safer, but you'll feel freer to get off the beaten road where you may find many more photographic opportunities. Other than that I think you as a citizen must "demand" the right to enjoy parks and public lands without being intimidated. A National Park is not a motel room. Group sex should be carried on in a private, not public, place. Good luck in a losing battle. This is part of being an environmentalist. If you want to "exploit" nature with your photography, you MUST take a stance. You owe it to Gaia. (Tough, isn't it, maybe you should of "Kept your mouth shut".) Best of Luck, Alex.

[alex_p._schorsch]

Hope some Forest Rangers and/or National Park officials read this post, maybe they should "clean house" and impose rules of behavior in these areas.

[rich long]

There are plenty of areas without these kinds of problems. Drive a little farther, find a few new places, and relax a little more. I'm sure it's hard to be creative when you're worried about your personal safety.

[bob stewart jacksonville]

I think this a matter of perception. On the whole National forests and Parks are safer than most city streets, as far as human crime. Person gets shot in the inner city, it hardly makes news. Hiker gets killed on the Appalachian Trail and it's national news for weeks. We hear about the later, and end up with a distorted risk balancing equation that makes us more afraid of the event that is actually the statistically less likey event to occur.

[christian deichert]

Robert -- You and I share some of the same stomping grounds. Where is this area? Now I am a little nervous about the weekend I just had camping alone in what I thought were safe, midle-of-nowhere spots.

 

Bob -- What is "GI infested?" Gastrointestinal, or GI Joe? Since I loosely fit the latter definition as an active duty officer, I'm curious.

[julie_edwards]

It's interesting to me that so far, apparently, only men have responded. Maybe women are more used to or conditioned to being concerned about safety at all times. Robert, imagine the same situations and you're female.

 

 

I frequently hike in a well travelled urban open space park, but always carry a cell phone, and if I'm by myself, stay on the well travelled trails (like a freeway at rush hour some days). I have seen a perch where a pair of red tail hawks frequently hang out, but in order to get close enough to photograph them, I would have to go into a very secluded area off the main trail where a man exposing himself has been seen. Since I might have to sit for the better part of a morning to get some shots, it's just not going to happen.

 

Women are used to using the buddy system, carrying pepper spray(or mace), and cell phones for safety. It stinks. But the reality is there are not enough resources to protect us from the crazies.

 

I would say keep reporting the illegal activities, make some noise with local politicians and environmental groups, see what you can stir up. But in the mean time, don't go there alone, carry a cell phone, and avoid the places where things are the worst.

[lee_shively]

It's not this bad everywhere else.

 

The first time my future wife and I camped together in a National Forest was 20 years ago. High school kids looking for beer stole our ice chest. They got beer as well as all our food for the weekend. And that's the last time I've had any problem.

 

I cannot imagine having to put up with this kind of crap in a National Forest or National Park area. You've apparently been much too nice about it. Now is the time to involve every agency with authority over the area. Raise so much hell the Forest Cops and Park Cops would rather deal with the misfits than with you and your complaints.

[m._huber]

The forest service really is underpaid, overworked and understaffed. It is not like a national park. Also, that is not part of their job. As objectionable as these people may be, in this sue-happy time, the USDA cannot impose rules of behavior unless they are damaging the ecology. Apparently there is easy access to this area for the "free spirits" and further away you may possibly have drug dealers and poachers, who are not only a threat to you, but to forest rangers. In spite of all this, most forest lands are quite delightful and safe. It pays to listen to local gossip and go where you can enjoy yourself.

[m._huber]

Speaking of legal options, interfering or disturbing nesting birds can bring in all the troops.

[uncle git]

Use the same caution and situational awareness you would in any poverty stricken urban area. Carry some kind of weapon - mace, pepper spray - heck even my monopod could crack a skull or two if I had to. Have the weapon handy at all times - it does no good when attacked to say "Do you mind waiting while I get my mace out of my camera bag?"

 

Always assume the worst of people until they prove you wrong. Analyze the situations you are walking into and have a plan before they develop - that way you just act on the plan rather than flap and try to come up with something.

 

Let people know when and where you are going and when you will return. Carry a cellphone - best hidden but accessable - on your person.

I was away on business with another guy from my company once - coming out of the hotel and walking to the car a fairly sketchy guy approached us and asked for a lift to his car - he said he had broken down and had walked to here to use the phone in the hotel. The guy I was with said "Sure". When we went to get in the car I offered the guy the front passenger seat - I wanted the control position in the car in the back seat - that way if anything went off I was behind him and he could not see / cover both of us at the same time. He refused and we went back and forth 3 or 4 times before he finallhy got in the front seat.

 

As we drove my buddy taked to him - for a guy supposedly in Real Estate he knew very little about the market in that area.

 

Anyway we dropped him off a couple of block down at a 7-11 - where he got into an old beatup truck - in front of a row of payphones.

 

Was anything dodgey going on ? No idea - but I sure felt better having the foresight to make it as hard as possible for him if he had any untoward intentions.

 

I guess being a 6'2" Irish skinhead one time martial artist has it`s benefits. ;-)

[karl_lehmann]

<i>"Always assume the worst of people until they prove you wrong"</i><p>That sounds like a pretty horrible way to go through life. How about this instead: Always assume the best of people until they prove you wrong, but be prepared for the worst.<p>I'd be pretty annoyed if I were Robert or Julie! Probably you can avoid these situations by going to more remote places. Criminals and nuts are attracted by people (potential victims), not wilderness. As a bonus you won't have to deal with crowds either.<p>Karl Lehmann <a href="http://www.lostworldarts.com/new_page_3.htm">Lost World Arts</a>

[tom_walker1]

"ALWAYS ASSUME THE WORST....?" I agree with Karl. That is truly pathetic. In over 40 years in the Outdoors I've had exactly one problem. Some kids riding three-wheelers in a campground all night.

 

Most people DONT venture into the backcountry because they are afraid...of snakes, bears, or being alone. Next time some weirdo approaches you in the Southwest, try saying: "Hey, have you seen the rattler that's around here? I'm snake-catching and there's one right around her someplace." I know a woman who does it around Alaska but substitues "grizzly"...it works, she says.

 

If all you say is true, find a new place to go. (And can the anti-military slurs.)

 

Tom Walker