Should I buy a LF enlarger?

[gonzalomoreno]

I am an experienced (over 30 years) amateur using, mainly, MF for B&W

fine art and I have my own lab at home. Two years ago I started with

LF (4"x5") and only B&W (architecture and still life). I learned all

about the format and got a few very good contacts. Now I want to

print not only contacts but also enlargements. The problem is that my

actual enlarger only works in MF, so, I need to by a new LF capable

one.

I live in Spain where it is really hard to find a second hand LF

enlarger and, when I find it, is very expensive (between 1,000 and

1,500 US$). In the other hand, there are plenty in eBay, and very

well priced, mostly from Canada or the US, but the shipment cost to

Spain is between 2 or 3 times the cost of the enlarger, not to speak

of possible transport damages.

So I am thinking in getting a scanner and a printer to be used only

with my LF negatives, but I know nobody scanning and printing, all my

friends use analog lab.

I would like an answer from any of you with experience in both analog

and digital darkroom and, so, able to compare and give me some

advise. I would not like to expend my money in a scanner and a

printer and then find out that the result is depressing. I know what

to expect from HP5+ developed in ID-11 and printed in Ilford

Multigrade FB Warm Tone, can I get similar results with scanner and

printer?

 

Thanks a lot for your help.

 

Gonzalo

[josef_geisler]

Hi Gonzales

I purchased a epson 4870 flatbad scanner and have great results on scanning 4X5 negatives. I printed up to 16x20 and the results was good. I am still not convinced that the digital files give you a better or equal result then the oldfashion darkroom. Good Luck. Joe

[michael_briggs2]

Rarely I've seen 4x5 enlargers listed on ebay.com from the UK. I would imagine that there are more on www.ebay.co.uk. I have seem comments on the internet indicating a good market for buyers of used enlargers in France and Germany, so also check out www.ebay.de. If you don't understand much German, try searching by brand name or model on foto.ebay.de. For high end enlargers, look for Devere and Durst. Probably Devere will be more common in the UK and Durst in Germany. I don't know about shipping costs between countries in the EU, but it should be a lot less than shipping overseas.

 

Since you already have a darkroom and are only interested in black and white, I think your plan of buying an enlarger is a good one.

[johnmarkpainter]

Gonzalo,

 

I do both....The problem with Digital Printing is when you have a lot of Dark Shadow detail.

Dark tones tend to get lost and become BLACK. With some subjects, Digital Scan/Print

works just fine.

 

If your interest is Black & White you are better off getting an Enlarger.

 

jmp

[c_p_goerz]

Have you considered using your camera as the enlarger by adapting a light source to the back? It would take a wee bit of work but may be a cheaper solution.

 

CP Goerz

[johnmarkpainter]

Gonzalo,

 

Check this link out: http://www.inksupply.com/index.cfm?source=html/bwpage.html

 

jmp

[dave_moeller]

I do both...digital is easier and gives good results, but I get better results from an enlarger. (And, yes, I've tried quadtones and hextones and Lyson and on and on and on...)

 

If you don't want to pay the price for shipping a whole enlarger, you could look for an enlarger head and adapt it to your camera back. You can pick up Aristo D2 cold light heads on eBay US for under $100 fairly regularly, and they're small enough that the shipping won't kill you. All you'll need to do is to build a negative holder for the back of your camera, a box to hold the light source to the negative holder, and some way of moving the camera either up and down (if you're working vertically) or back and forth (if you're working horizontally).

 

Search the web for "build enlarger" and you'll find some hits with information by people who have done this. It's pretty easy to figure out. (My first LF enlarger was an old Speed Graphic on a copy stand with a cold light head on top.)

 

Good luck.

[Jochen_S]

Here in Germany Enlargers especially the very heavy Durst Laborators can be had for a song sometimes. Maybe you'll do better (cheaper) looking for a 8x10" enlarger? Have you considered converting an old process camera? Murphys law says: The enlarger you're dreaming of will appear as soon as you have the scanner.

[ryan_mcintosh]

Maybe their is a way to modify your MF enlarger so you can print from a 4x5 negative. I dont think it would be THAT much work, but you would need a new lens of course.

 

Also, if you are only contact printing...you could get a larger camera such as a 8x10 or even 11x14 and contact print from the large negatives!!! I shoot 8x10 to mainly contact print the negatives, but luckly I have access to an 8x10 enlarger...so I can still enlarge when needed.

 

Silver prints are always nice then digital prints. To get a good quality scanner and large format scanner...your going to be paying as much as you would if you found an old 4x5 enlarger for cheep that you could just do some cleaning and work on yourself.

 

Good luck.

[lawrence_francis3]

No, don't buy a large format enlarger! Begin using Mark Nelson's "Precision Digital Negatives" See this link: http://www.precisiondigitalnegatives.com/index.html

 

Then your workflow will look like this:

 

1)Capture image using typical LF cameras and films.

2)Develop negatives as usual

3)Scan the negative into Photoshop

4)Generate digital negative per Mark Nelson technology

5)Print (inkjet printer) large digital negative onto Pitorico's Ceramic Transparency Media (Currently available up to 24" wide roll)

6)Contact print onto typical silver enlarging papers

7)Develop paper normally

 

This technology allows users of traditional materials to enjoy the flexibility of Photoshop as an addendum to their traditional process. Also, you get rid of the enlarger lens degregation, by simply contact printing at any size you want (up to 24" by 66 feet)

 

Don't buy the enlarger!!!

[michael_briggs2]

In my opinion, saying that digital methods are better than enlarging because of "enlarger lens degregation" is misleading for two reasons.

 

First, with a quality enlarging lens, the degradation in enlarging a 4x5 negative to any print other than giagantic will be insignificant. In my prints from 4x5 negatives there is detail beyond what can be see with the unaided eye. For example, I made a x3.2 enlargement from a 4x5 negative of a group of 23 people. With a magnifying glass additional detail becomes visible and one can even read the time from wristwatches that several people were wearing. So yes, there must be degradation from the use of an enlarging lens, but if there is detail finer than the eye can see, what does it matter?

 

Secondly, digital processes also have degradation. The image will be converted into pixels at some resolution, and on inexpensive scanners, the resolution will be further degraded from the quality of the lens used in the scanner and the fixed focus used by the scanner. CCD-based scanners might also have trouble with the dynamic range of some B&W negatives.

 

Whether either method, film scanning or enlarging, degrades resolution depends on the equipment used and the skill with which it is used.

A cheap scanner or a scanner incorrectly used might significantly degrade a photo. So will a cheap enlarging lens or any lens used at too small of an aperture. A drum scanner correctly used or a fine enlarging lens correctly used will obtain very close to the information content in the film. For the print mentioned above I used a 150 mm El-Nikkor, which is much cheaper than a drum scanner.

[nikos peri]

Ciao Gonzalo,<p>

I'm going to dissent with the majority here. I suspect you will have a much ahrder time achieving the prints you are used to from your MF enlarger if you start off the digital printing route for B&W. So here's a word of encouragement... I know how you feel about the abundance of gear in the US; I'm in Italy.<p>

I was in the exact same boat as you, with a stack of 4x5" negs, and no manner of wet printing them myself. By coincidence, right down the street was a pro-photographer that was retiring. He finally came by righ before moving out of his lab saying that if I wanted his enlarger, come pick it up. I now have a 5x7" IFF with three Schneider lenses, three condensors, and all the bits and pieces. <p>

I'd say pick up your phone book and find all the photo labs in your area. Chances are, they are gearing up to go digital, and someone is hawking off the enlarger to make room for the Frontier.<p>

Good luck!

[gene crumpler]

Yes-digital is for color.

[gene crumpler]

I'm going through this as I write. I purchased a LF camera this morning from KEH and plan to pick up a 4x5 enlarger from a recently closed anlog lab. The guy has 3 4x5's and I get the pick of the litter.

[gene crumpler]

I just finished John Sexton's advance printing workshop the last of November. I am in awe of the potential of 4x5 silver photography.

Eleven of us were very lucky to view prints that will probabaly never be published in John's lifetime. He showed us a edition of prints that have a single printing and 2 artist proofs. He said this edition will probably fund his wife's and his retirement. No words to describe what I saw. I still get goose bumps thinking about what I saw!!!!

[bobbyc]

A scanner and printer vs Enlarger? HA! No comparison unless you want to send your mom

pictures of your dorm room.