Nikon Made in China

[laurents_rupar]

Dear all,

 

I am now living in China for more than two years and realized that

there is more and more Nikon equipment to get here, which is has the

label "Made in China" on it. At the beginning, I thought it is fake

(sorry for my direct way, but my experiences here have thought me,

that there is nothing, which can not be copied in this country).

However, I have been talking to a local photographer on the weekend

about this and was told, that Nikon actually shifted parts of their

productions from Japan to Wuxi, China... For example the F100, most

of the digi-cams and some lenses! The good thing is, it is much

cheaper! The bad thing is, I have no idea about Nikons quality made

in China!

 

Does anybody know about this and is there something I should be

careful about? I recognized, that the serial number has totally

changed for the F100, which is really of disadvantage for me, cause I

wanted to get one and don't know how to track back it's origin now

(well, ok! If it' being produced in Wuxi, I guess I do know).

 

Any comments?

 

Thanks,

 

Laurents

[RaymondC]

if it meets the purpose and the quality, I have no question wherever its made.

[john_carter_rhodes]

Well some people seem to be keen to get Japan manufactured items, though I've never actually seen any evidence of inferior quality from the China manufacturered Nikon products.

 

Nikon uses the same quality control in all of its factories.

 

John.

[laurents_rupar]

Ok. Let me give you an idea of what I am talking about in money terms: the F100 is being offered by Nikon in Germany/Austria/Switzerland for around 1500EUR and costs around 700EUR here in China... NEW! Very suspicious to me... I am working in an international telecommunication company and know, that production in China has massive economic advantages, but quality standards are still a hot topic.

 

Laurents

[steve_levine]

Ive been eating white paper containers of their food for years,so whats wrong with their cameras?

[marcofrancardi]

That's what I'm worried about: Quality Control. I don't want to get into civil rights (it is not place nor time to), but as long as workers take shifts of 12 hours or so and have very little time to rest, quality control is a must. And I don't think China is famous for QC.

[roland_larson]

See <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0097kW">this thread</a>.

[vivek iyer]

And the D70 is made in Thailand.

 

I think the Thais have done a terrific job.

 

There are some folks now looking for the Japanese plastic 50mm nikkor

instead of the new Chinese 50mm.

 

Vivitar flashes are no longer made in Japan and the products from China are far better.

 

All of the Contax stuff was getting made in Japan until recently, until it became "uneconomical"for Zeiss.

 

Toyota made in the US or China, if it fits your bill why bother which made in stamp it has?

 

What is wrong with you folks?!

 

700 Euros for a F100? I will take two, please!

 

Vivek.

[marcofrancardi]

Got it. But "selling for the same price" logic makes sense, not for the half of it. Something's gotta give for the half of it! (i.e. F100 at 700USD). as a rule of thumb, if it costs less, got to be less valuable (having taken into account every marketing variables). And we know this applies to every marketing goods made there: toys, washingmachines... I get shivers in my back when I see people handling chinese made fireworks... no one checks for faulty parts at the factory. Why shouldn't this apply to Nikon?

[roland_larson]

<i>but as long as workers take shifts of 12 hours or so and have very little time to rest, quality control is a must. And I don't think China is famous for QC</i>

 

<p>

 

Working condition in China depends on the corporate culture and your worry may or may not be valid. I've been working in Hong Kong for a graphic repro workshop serving a major printing house, and am in liasion with a few China-based mfg plants, from garments to consumer electronics. As far as I know, skilled Chinese workers in foreign joint ventures do work in comparable conditions as with their mother corp. So, as far as Nikon products are concerned, you can relax and let Nikon take care of the QC.

[vivek iyer]

".. I get shivers in my back when I see people handling chinese made fireworks.."

 

Ya, keep in mind they invented them! The french got a scent of this through the silk road (several centuries later) and applied it to making battle field weapons.

 

Vivek.

[roland_larson]

<i> the F100 is being offered by Nikon in Germany/Austria/Switzerland for around 1500EUR and costs around 700EUR here in China... NEW!</i>

 

<p>

 

In this case, you should take differential pricing strategies into account. Commodities are often priced according to the taxing system, living standards and local consumers' spending power rather than their mfg cost alone. Yes, an F100 may sell at EUR 1500 in Europe, but remember the same camera is also selling at <b>only</b> USD 1200 in the States. This simple fact reflects the difference in the living standards of the two places rather than with the quality issues. Of course this leads to a complication concerning grey market and parallel imports, but that's exactly why there are local warranty policies.

[marcofrancardi]

Thanks Roland, you contribution is very heartening. Vivek: please try to understand, I'm not teaching anything to anyone and I don't mean to be politically uncorrect. But time goes by and conditions change very rapidly. I still remember when the same "western common perception" of poor quality standards applied to Japan. Remember the first japanese cars? So, I've got nothing against China itself. I'm only trying to find out why most of the western (and now japanese) industries are moving to China: I don't think it's because they save on raw supplies or because of China's superior technology level. They must save somwhere else. And if it is on working condition, we will pay the price in terms of quality. I really hope Roland is right though...

[Jerry_]

If the "made in China" F100 has a Nikon, Inc., world-wide warranty (and the instruction manual is not a Xerox copy) then it is priced for the Chinese economy. On the other hand, if one used to be able to buy a "Rolex" wristwatch in South Korea, there is nothing that cannot be re-manufactured to "look and feel" like a Nikon F100 but it could be something else....

[roland_larson]

<i>if one used to be able to buy a "Rolex" wristwatch in South Korea, there is nothing that cannot be re-manufactured to "look and feel" like a Nikon F100 but it could be something else </i>

 

<p>

 

Yes, fake products are everywhere; go check out the street stalls along the Fifth Ave for a $10 Ferragamo wallet. Perhaps let's put it this way : fake watch makers can put a one-dollar-worth Made in Hong Kong quartz movement inside a metal case, and here they have a working (even more accurate) fake Rolex that may sell for, say, $50; but in the real world, would you put the innards of a Holga inside a lump of plastic and sell it as a working fake F100 ?

 

<p>

 

If "Made in Japan" is so important, go for the manual AIS which are still, and will go on to be, made in Japan, as Nikon is only innovating modern and streamlined mfg workflows for plants in China and Thailand.

 

<p>

 

Back to square one, yes, the mainstream Chinese workers are still making their livings in appalling working conditions; I've been there, I've seen that. But what we can brag about our factories and our working conditions one hundreds years before ? When you come to realize that the Chinese started one hundred years late, do they need time to catch up ? It's easy to point our fingers towards them, but it's not fair.

 

<p>

 

I just checked with my previous postings and noticed I have a very bad habit of drifting way out of photographic topics; however, I can go on forever and keep our dear moderators busy but that would be beyond the scope of photo.net

[martin_altmann]

If Roland is right and the price reflects the standard of living in a place then the standard of life in Latin America must be especially high. The with standard lens version of the D70 costs about US$2100 here.

[roland_larson]

Check with your import tax; and there are also places in the world where cameras are priced and sold as luxurys.

[roland_larson]

I just checked with some Chinese online stores and the F100 is selling for a nominal price at RMB 8500, that is, approx USD 1050, or EUR 850. Still among the lowest price in the world except perhaps from Hong Kong or Taiwan, but there is no way to get one at EUR 700 in China. Laurents where are you ?

[jack_johnston]

Curious: If the QC in China was really bad, wouldn't it be a financial disaster for Nikon if a relatively large percent (or larger than their "Japan" products) of their products were being returned for warranty service?

 

Another way to put this is: Is there a high percentage of "China" lenses & cameras being sent in for service? It seems to me that a reputation would be earned if a lot of Nikon buyers were reporting problems with the "China" gear that they purchase.

[kelly_flanigan1]

The Wall Street Journal last month showed the hourly manufacturing cost of many counties. China was 90 cents per our hour; USA was more than that; and Germany even more. <BR><BR>Alot of items are moved out of the USA; because labor is cheaper; insurance costs are way cheaper or nil; Environmental costs are nil; or way cheaper. Just the health insurance cost of a USA worker can be 1000 bucks per month; and this may only cover him; and not his family. <BR><BR>Quality Controll needs to be robust; with REAL workers who catch junk parts; and build good product. A bunch of ISO 900X hype and 6 sigma chants willl not fix a bunch of wimpy middle manager YES men. Crap parts must be quashed immediately; and the "feel good about each other" BS saved for the end of the day. Patton type managers need to hear the bad problems immediately; and fix them. WAY too many chaps get wrapped up in charts; 6 sigma graphs; and never walk the line; bonding with the common man.<BR><BR> A "made in China" item can be better than other countries products. There are a large number of manufacturing operations there; a biased judgement of country of orgin often is faulty.

[ShunCheung]

While warranty service won't cost you anything additional (at least not directly except for shipping cost), it is very expensive for Nikon. If quality control at any plant is poor and a lot of defective products go back to Nikon for warranty repair, it'll hurt them big time. It would have been very foolish for Nikon not to maintain the same quality standard at their plants in China and Thailand as it is in Japan.

[richard_ilomaki]

Gee!!

 

This sounds a lot like the Leica guys who endlessly squabble about the merits of German made Leica stuff vs Canadian versions. The general consensus among those who knew the men in charge of Leitz Midland is that if anything, many of the Canadian pieces are of better quality than the German ones.

 

AAMOF, lens elements of some of today's Leica lenses are still made in Midland by Raytheon, the current owner of Elcan, teh successor to Leitz there.

 

Kodak has plants in China that are indistinguishable from their plants in the US and the rest of the world. Take a guess where most of Kodak's digital cameras are made.

 

The Honda plant outide Toronto was voted by Honda as having the best quality among all Honda plants in the world. As the mobile phone guys say: "location is SO 20th century!"

 

Cheers