What camera for amateur!? N80, D70, or F100??

[vladvlaz]

I currently have the following beginner setup: F55, 28-80G, 50 1.8

and 75-300 4-5.6. Also Dimage IV film scanner.

 

 

After one year, I find the system insufficient. Several reasons: too

much DOF, esp the 28-80. Small viewfinder. Silver color of camera

body. Autofocus hunts and is slow, even with the 50 prime, the assist

light cannot be turned off unless the "sports" mode is used. Camera

is not well protected from rain/dust. The blackout time (while mirror

is up) is too long to know exactly at which point the shutter opens,

this makes it hard to catch the necessary moment. Cannot set ISO

speed. Camera too light and can be hard to handhold.

 

 

Finally, scanning negatives/slides as I found out can be a time-

consuming task. I like the sharpness/color which comes out from the

scanner, however, scratches and dust is a big problem, since a couple

of specks ruin everything. I have also been frustrated with the

results I get with developed film from labs. It can come out

scratched, something really wrong with B&W developing, E-6 with

ruined skies: the slide seems "dirty": full of strange specks.

Furthermore slide film, to me, costs a considerable amount. At the

same time, I find the archival properties of film important, since

I've lost hard-drive data several times, and CD-R archiving

properties are dubious.

 

 

I am thinking of upgrading my system, but there are some difficult

choices. (D70 vs F100) vs N80 + one or two good lenses vs two or

three good lenses. What are your thoughts?

 

 

I like the fact that different films have different character. At the

same time I've been frustrated too often with poor developing, dust

and scratched negatives/slides. Scanning is a pain. I move from

country to country a lot so like to scan film rather than print it so

that I don't have to carry heavy albums to show friends. A D70 allows

to take more pics, but I am worried about the quality of the body,

viewfinder and autofocus which apparently are not good. At the same

time if I buy N80 I am afraid I will want to upgrade again to F100

soon again for viewfinder and autofocus reasons, also build quality.

Price is an important consideration. D70 crops, so the DOF would be

shallower...

 

 

Finally I find the lens I have too slow and would love to invest in

glass instead. What do you think? I shoot amateur/travel. Partly this

is a film vs digital debate, of which there are plenty and I read

some of those...

 

 

thanks,

Vlad

[lachaine]

It sounds to me like you will just have to make up your own mind as to what camera you want. One thing you should know, however, is that depth of field has nothing to do with the camera body nor the specific lens. It's a matter of focal length. If you want LESS depth of field, you use a telephoto lens or zoom, which you already have. I want a negative, and I also want a jpeg for web display, email, etc. My solution, I just use a minilab that has one of the newer machines that provides prints and CD for one low price. I have had a film scanner before, and it IS very time consuming to scan a roll of film. B&W is a specialty service now, and you simply have to do it yourself or find a very good lab (it's not cheap though), or else use chromogenic B&W film.

[warrenlewis]

You already have made up your mind. Get a D70 and an F5, 28-70f2.8 and 70-200f2.8. How is your budget? After reading through your posting, you need to make a list of what you like to shoot and then decide your priorities....Warren

[aaron_ng]

Can't answer your camera and lens needs for you, but since you know pretty much the disadvantages you want to overcome, it shouldn't be a problem to get a set that will fulfil your needs/wants. If you want an F100, look for it 2nd hand. They are built tougher, so a 2nd hand F100 would still work very well.

 

For your scanner, look for a 2nd hand Dimage Scan Elite II. It's discontinued, and cheap. If you want brand new, then there is the Dimage Scan Elite 5400. Both of them have automatic scratch removal in the form of Digital ICE. My friend has the Scan IV, while I have the Elite II, and it is a far better improvement to your photos than what getting a new body would give.

 

Aaron

[scott_mcloughlin]

If you want digital, then D70 it is. You'll have to live with the crop factor, build, view finder and having your pics stored on digital media.

 

Otherwise, get the F100 or even a consider a manual focus body. You'll have a better VF, manual film speed ISO setting, good build quality and what not. The F100 will meter AI lenses, as will any MF bodies, of course.

 

Then get yourself a few killer fast, used but minty AIS lenses. Maybe a 105/1.8 and 35/1.4 will do the trick? 85/1.4? See what FLs you use most on your zooms and go from there.

 

As for scanning, I don't find it so bad. I develop my B&W film in my kitchen and scan the negs. I'm getting better at it by degrees and am starting to experiment with digital printing using a B&W inkset.

 

Personally, if I wanted super convenient, immediate turn around of images, I'd buy a nice compact digital P&S. But right now, I don't.

[ShunCheung]

Vlad, as usual, you need to specify (1) what your budget is; there are plenty of excellent cameras and lenses, but they are costly. If you have $10,000 to spend, we can give you a lot of suggestions :-), but most of us don't have that kind of budget and (2) what type of subjects you shoot: human portraits, sports, landscape .... ???

[vladvlaz]

Guys, thanks for your answers so far!

 

 

I would be able to spend around 1000 dollars on an upgrade. I don't think the F100 route then would be worth it, since I would not be able to get any more lenses. Also reading some responses I'm reassured not to go the D70 way since I find myself expecting a lot from the camera and would be disappointed as soon as I find faults with it...

 

 

Manual focus was a good idea, I wonder if I can find it in my heart to give up all those nice buttons that higher-end cameras seem to have. The FM3A is an inviting idea, with the loss however of the G lens. I understand the AFD are usable, though.

 

 

I am leaning more towards the film path then, but will consider manual as well. I shoot a mix of portraits, street, occasionally landscape and sports, but mainly I suppose I would call it people photography.

 

 

Ideally I'm interested in a good body that will last me for more than a year, and then a couple of fast lenses for the budget. I would like fast autofocus, but perhaps a switch to manual would be worth it?

[hugh_t]

Get a used F100 from KEH.com. Excellent condition around $600. That will last way longer than a year and your F55 will feel like a toy compared to it. Find a lab that will do CDs if you need digital files. As far as glass goes you need to decide if you a zoom or prime person. I like zooms and primarily use a 28-70 2.8 Nikon on my F100 and D70. It's expensive and weighs a ton, but it rocks in terms of sharpnes and focus speed. In order to suggest glass we would need to know more about your preferences.

[joseph_smith3]

If you want to stick with a film camera, get a used F100 for around $500-600 or a used n90s for $300. Both of these cameras allow you to use all (or almost all) Nikon AIS or AF lenses. They also work wonderfully with Nikon flashes esp the SB-24 thru SB-28. If you do not need multiple AF focal points, the n90s is the camera for you. If you want to take full advantage of DOF buy a used Nikon 24mm or 28mm lens and have some fun taking images in aperture priority mode. The view finders of both of these cameras are much much better than the viewfinder of ANY Nikon digital camera. If you want a really sharp lens, buy a used Nikon 55mm micro lens. Joe Smith

[hayward]

I've own or have owned the N80, D70, 28-80 G, 70-300 G, and 50 1.8, as well as many other lenses and bodies.

 

There is no question in my mind, that were I you, with $1,000 to spend, I would buy the D70 without hesitation.

[ShunCheung]

Vlad, if I were you, I would find a D70 (at a camera store?) and play around with it before ruling against it. The D70 is a low-end camera, very much like your F55, but I find it decent even though I am used to the high-end film SLRs.

 

People are converting to digital at a rapid rate. I would consider it very carefully before investing in film bodies now.

[loreneidahl]

Pesonally I think you are going to hate the D70. The D70 is essentially a f55 wiht digital insides.

 

Get the N90s or the F100, either one will allow you to use the lenses you wish to use.

 

Yes digital is coming quickly, I have a D2h, but I also have and use 3 F3's, N90s, and 3 old Nikkormats. I do not take my D2h out street shooting - I use an F3 or a Nikkormat for that.

 

Try the D70 in the same quality of light that you will be shooting with the same type of lenses and you will get a good idea of it abilites.

[scott_mcloughlin]

FWIW, I have an N80 and an FM3a. Now that I have the latter, I never use the N80 (my girlfriend uses it). Here's why: FM3a is smaller and fits in my medium sized Domke bag much better; better VF for looking; better VF and screen for manual focus; meters AIS lenses; I like center weighted metering just fine; I almost never, ever feel the need for autofocus for the street/family/landscape stuff I shoot; no buttons and custom settings tweak so that they'll just screw me up next time I pick up the camera; body and lenses just feel better and more solid in my hands, although this is purely subjective; AIS lenses have nice smooth manual focus action.

 

Don't get me wrong. N80 is a fine camera, but the smaller manual body just does it for me so much better. And I'm no old man dreaming of the past, I'm relatively new to photography.

 

Since this is all kinda new to me, I bought the FM3a, but now that I'm familiar with it, I wish I had just bought a used FE2 or FM2n in good condition. Would have saved me a few hundred bucks - and for a few hundred bucks you can get another killer AIS lens from KEH!!

 

Regarding lens purchases, I am working on standardizing on a small, versatile kit that I can easily carry around. I seem to be collecting oodles of cool stuff, but right now, that lens kit is: 28/2.8 AIS, 45/2.8 AI-P, 105/2.5 AIS (or 135/2.8 AIS if planning to be outdoors).

Fits in my bag with room to spare, even with a nice big SB800 flash unit packed. Street shooting with the 28/2.8 on my FM3a is a just a real pleasure not to be missed. Keeps me going for hours :-)

 

I'm pretty happy with this except I'd like one of the lenses to be faster. Sometimes, I toss my 50/1.8 AFD in the bag, but also I'm thinking about an 85/1.4 (heavy, hmmm) or 50/1.4 (nasty bokeh, hmmm) or maybe even a 35/1.4 (not my favorite prime FL). We'll see, I'd like to keep the "standard kit" to 3 lenses if possible.

 

I have a few zooms I started out with, but right now, I can't imagine walking around with them. They're heavy, they're big on the camera, they're big in the bag, mine aren't all that fast, and the primes have individual attributes that I'm getting to know and really, really appreciate. I'm heading to Costa Rica, and maybe I'll pick up a long zoom for the trip, but then again, maybe not. It's kind of humid and hot down there, and I'd like to travel lite.

 

Sorry for my ramble. I guess my point is, for $1K, you can put your hands on a few super nice, high quality photographic tools and optics. In my own experience, this has been far preferable to any attempts I've made to "cover all the bases" with feature laden photo gear. I focus, I meter the shot, I frame the picture, I visualize the possible shots at my prefered focal lengths. It's gratifying, highly educational, relatively economical, and I'm making no or few compromises in build or optical quality.

 

Works for me. You have alot of great options in front of you with $1,000 at your disposal.

 

Scott

[kaiyen]

Loren,

I don't have a D70, and mean this question earnestly: what makes you think the D70 is an F55 with digital insides? Even compared to my N65, which is newer than the N/F55, the D70 offers more control over metering modes, ISO control (well, that's pretty standard with digital, so maybe that's not an "added" feature), and a better AF system (though it's not great).

 

I'm pretty sure the AF system in the D70 is better than the one in the N65, but I'm not certain. You also have control over which sensor you want to use, whereas even in my N65 I can't pick which one I want active (you can in the N75).

 

I think the control over the metering mode is pretty significant, too. With my N65, I only have the choice of matrix mode most of the time, and center metering in Manual mode. that's pretty restrictive.

 

Anyway - I see the D70 as akin more to the N80 line than the N55 line. Which I think most people would agree is a significant step up, though certainly no where like the N55>F100 leap.

 

just my thoughts,

allan

[john_stockdale2]

You need to play with a few cameras, after you decide whether you want film or digital. I've had Nikons since my first, a Nikkormat FTN in about 1969. Every one I've had since then has had a smaller and less good viewfinder. Having said that, the F100 gives me good flexibility, and the custom functions can be very useful. For example, I have set mine so that the shutter release does not do autofocus. To each his own. The FM2N (manual) option might be worth considering.

[loreneidahl]

Allan,

 

My appologies, I belive that typos got the better of me as well as a freudian slip. My thought is that the D70 is closer to a digtal N75, The D100 is seemingly a digital N80-F100 Hybrid.

 

These assesments are based on my using the the film and digtial camrea that I mentioned. I spent a considerable amount of time and money and more money :( in the process of of determining what digital offering of Nikon I would purchase.

 

My choice was the D2h which I feel is a digtal F5.

[wilfred_wong]

My D70 is much better build then my F75... and is feature rich. I don't feel my D100 is better built then D70.

 

I used to use well built cameras... F4, F90x, F2, Nikkormat .... my D70 is now my primary camera, F75 is the second most frequently used. When I travel, small size and light weight does matter.

 

don't worry too much about body, viewfinder and autofocus on D70. If the F55 body doest not bother you, so won't a D70 body. I know there are many reports about problems with D70... but i think...a happy users are slient compare to unhappy users.

 

and I agree with Shun, the move to digital is so rapid that I 'd hestiage to invest on film bodies. (I was thinking to get a RF camera)Yes, films are cheap now, but when profit margin of film business is too low, i'm not surprised that film manufacturors would end their traditional business... most of them 've their digital imaging business already.

 

Get a F80/F100 alone won't solve your problem regarding film scan. If your decision is to get a good lab and scan by them.... you don't "need" to replace the F55. On the other hand, if you get a D70, you'll, in the long run, save lots of D&P cost. (with the exception that you want more and more lens and accessories after you got the D70)

[zoomlens]

Hi, Vlad

 

Sorry if this is inapporiate to point people to my sale on Photo.net. Please delete this

message if it violates any forum rule.

 

For your information, Vald, I am selling my entire FM3a kit here on Photo.net. I think

the kit (with lenses, flash, grip, and tripod) will fit your budget.

 

Hopefully this will help me to become a paid member of this awesome website.

 

Cheers, Poan

[affen_kot]

the 50mm 1.8 is too slow? ...