light leaks in kiev 4a

[chris_dilenardo]

hi there just done a couple of test rolls of b&w in my new kiev

4a(meterless) much to my dismay theres light leaks that appear as a

straight darkish patch at the bottom left of the neg(when its the

right way up)doesnt happen on all of them but on most of the ones

taken today in bright sun. used a jupiter 8 that came with it(light

cleaning marks on lens; yeah looks like its been cleaned with a floor

sander!)and a jupiter 12 wide angle (mint thankfully) anybody seen

this type of leak before, it stretches into the sprocket holes as

well. all pics were taken with the ever ready case on which covers

the back up mostly, so i dont think its the back probably something

shutter related? any help much appreciated as i really like this

camera, its the first russian one with any faults ive got as of yet

and with the extra lenses is a nice set up(got a brand new helios 103

coming soon as well!)

cheers

chris

[mskovacs]

Bottom left means the leak came from the top right of the camera. Look in the seam where the top of the back slides into the top of the body. There should be a piece of black string there that runs all the way around. There is also another seal between the top deck and the top of the body that you can't see unless you remove the top plate. There is also some black paper that runs along the right edge of the rangefinder prism.

 

My bet is the one that you can see. That seem would be exposed, even with the neverready case.

 

I took Russ Pinchbeck's (Kiev Survival Site) advice and I replace all of these strings with Poron polyurethane foam. (I have an uncut 8x10 sheet) Its non-outgassing and non-gunk-forming as it ages. You could also glue yarn of the appropriate dimensions. "Interslice" (Jon Goodman) on ebay also sells polyurethane foam, precut with self adhesive.

[mskovacs]

The top plate is not very hard to remove. The Kiev Survival Site, my photo.net presentation and Mike Elek's Contax II overhaul should be enough to get you started, if you have the nerve and some precision screwdrivers.

 

If you're near southern Ontario, drop by my place and I'll fix it over coffee/beer :)

[grahams]

Chris - I would replace the light seal around the back as a matter of course anyway - it's easy to remove the old stuff, made of cord. See here

 

http://www3.telus.net/public/kaylalyn/index.html

 

for more advice.

 

To check if there is light leaking through the shutter, remove the lens, remove the back, and hold the camera up to a bright light while you wind and fire the shutter at various speeds. I can't imagine how light would leak through one side of the shutter with the shutter still working, but I certainly haven't seen everything!

 

I love my Kiev 4. Enjoy yours.

[richard_oleson]

I have a Kiev 4 that is very nice except for a light leak that hits the film through the openings around the upper film sprocket. I think the light is coming down the sprocket shaft from the right hand RF window.... proving to be a pretty tough spot to seal up, and hard to work around.

 

:)=

[mskovacs]

Richard is that what the paper seal on the right side of the long rangefinder prism is for? It anchors with the two screws holding the rangefinder moving prism cover, runs along the right side of the long prism, and under the shutter gearing between the body casting and shutter module.

[m._howard_edwards]

Mine seems to be leaking around the lens which is very loose in the inner bayonet mount; it rattles. I am still unsure how to seal this (Helios 103). It goes away with the Jupiter 9,11, and 12 which fit the outer bayonet mounts.

[chris_dilenardo]

WOW what a site! shes now looking rather poorly all in bits with the top plate removed, all that yak string(whats left of it) removed, and the front plate removed. inside its full of bits of old dust, small bits of "stuff" and generally looking like it needs a thorough tidy up. i think ill spray the top and front plates black after replacing all the light seals, clean up the internal glassware and flat black all the stuff thats come away after years of neglect. at least all the shutter speeds work out ok (according to my leningrad light meter) and the rangefinder is accurate and lines up perfectly horizontally and vertically. with the help of the kiev survival site i really want to do a good job on this as there seems to be something good about this camera, something that seems to be a little different from my fed and zorki, just feels right in the hand(if that makes any sense) one further thing if any one can help,the leather work is also all off as it was grotty to begin with. anyone know with what i can replace it with?

once again many thanks, you guys are the best!!

[mskovacs]

Chris: A Kiev 4A/J8 is what got me started in Contax madness. TAKE CARE THEY ARE ADDICTIVE! Check out the www.beststuff.com Russian Camera Forums. Good community there including the author of the Kiev Survival website. I wish it was up the first time I cracked my Kiev open!

 

If you run into problems, don't hesitate to write me. Russ' Kiev survival site is good on the disassembly, but is far from complete. I would suggest that you also consider relubing the inner mount, cleaning the rangefinder and giving the shutter a good flood cleaning. If you have any "Zeiss bumps", I've had good success removing them. Our own Mike Elek's Contax II overhaul has some more details so its worth a look. Its Mike's fault I'm hooked on these darned cameras now :)

 

If you're going to paint, you'll probably need to remove all of the chrome plating. I don't think it will adhere well to the chrome. Personally I would leave it.

[mskovacs]

Forgot: What year is your 4A? (first two digits of serial for all Russian gear)

[mskovacs]

After all this discussion, I'm rewarded with my own light leak problem in a Contax II.

 

There is a straight, quite dark line through the entire roll of film, not uniform but darker in some areas than others, abrumpt square-off transition as it moves between frames. On some frames there is also a large smear shaped like a parallelogram, probably from film movement.

 

I'm thinking that my shutter is leaking as I cock the camera. Indeed, the right side is not hooking up properly and comes apart about 1/3 of the way up. What I don't understand is why I only sometimes get the smear, but I always get the dark, straight line. (mix of indoor and outdoor shots) I wonder if the open slit leaks light when it sits behind the shutter cover when cocked?

[chris_dilenardo]

hey mike its a 1976 apparently (as you probably know yoursef) one of the worst years of production. still going after nearly 30 years cant be that bad i suppose. as to the light leak i think ive found it, now the top is off, when i point the top of the camera at the light, you can see light coming in from the middle where that little hook lets go of the shutter at the top, and to the right of that about directly above the right sprocket more light.there was a little square of black paper i suppose to cover this but nowhere near big enough, all internal parts are now flat black and the inner and outer top casing and front casing are also flat black. evrything clean as awhistle inside, all dust and bits blown out and shutter relubed. cant wait for the reassembly! thanks for all your help mike, when its fixed ill get some negs on a cd( no scanner myself) at the lab and post them see what you all think. all the best

chris

[richard_oleson]

Mike:

 

Your Contax might have a broken ribbon. I would check for this immediately because they can continue to run (but with issues as you've noted) for a short time on one ribbon before the second one breaks.

 

It is MUCH MUCH easier to repair a camera with ONE broken ribbon than it is if you wait for the second one to break, because the one intact ribbon will hold the shutter in synch with itself.

 

I have notes on opening up the back to check the ribbons (and on replacing them) at

 

http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-29.html

 

:)=

[richard_oleson]

Chris:

 

While you're in there cleaning up, take extra care to clean the BACK side of the right hand end of the rangefinder prism.

 

Contax and Kiev rangefinder prisms are not silvered at the end; they rely on Total Internal Reflection, which is more efficient than silver as a reflector. However, it works perfectly only when the glass is perfectly clean, and Contax rangefinders gradually dim over time as dirt accumulates on this back surface (as well as on the front where the dirt blocks light coming in). You'll be surprised how good it gets after a really good cleaning.

 

rick :)=

[mskovacs]

Rick: I have it open and I don't think the ribbons are broken. Sometimes the right-hand hook isn't catching the top curtain causing the parallelogram-shaped leaks (the shape from exposing a portion of the gate as the shutter slit moves up and transporting the film simultaneously).

 

What can cause a 5mm sharp-edged leak down the entire length of the roll, about 1/3 up the film gate? The leak must be close to the film plane to be so sharp, but I don't see anything that could cause this.

[mskovacs]

Here's a negative, show as it would be orientated in the film gate, emulsion away, upsidedown and inverted. The parallelogram is on the left (only seen sometimes), the straight line runs the entire length of the negative, and varies in intensity with sharp transitions.

 

Otherwise film looks OK. Evenly processed, frame numbers etc all there.<div></div>

[mskovacs]

Maybe easier to see as a positive.<div></div>

[richard_oleson]

that's a new one for me. Does the leak cross the gap between frames, or is it just within the frames themselves? and is it in the exact same place vertically on every frame?

 

:)=

[richard_oleson]

One thing that might cause this is a film chip in a gear: unlike other shutters, if the Contax/Kiev shutter hesitates partway across, both curtains may stop (or pause) together. instead of causing a fading or capping effect, this might imprint the slit on the film. if this is the case, the width of the black band on each frame would be a finction of the speed set for that shot. once the gears have passed the obstructed tooth, the curtains would resume their original speed pretty quickly, and you might see an effect similar to this on the film.

 

this would cause the effect only within each frame, leaving the space between frames clear.

 

rick :)=

[mskovacs]

It runs the entire length, from leader to the last frame including the spaces between frames.

[mskovacs]

I have one idea: say I hit the end of the roll and the shutter was partially wound, and uncapped. Then it would have exposed a slit the entire length as I rewound.

[richard_oleson]

That would explain it. can't think of much else that would.

 

:)=

[mskovacs]

thanks Rick. She's a cappin' now :)