Goerz Tenax film holder

[thomasvdv]

Hello all,

 

(I first posted this in the large format forum, but it was suggested

I post it here. I am sorry about the duplication. Just a small note

to add the camera must have been bought in 1924 as far as I can

tell, I guess that is old enough for classic camera ;)

 

I managed to get hold of my grand fathers Goerz Tenax camera with a

150mm f 1:4,5 Dogmar lens and a Compur Shutter. Everything seems to

be in good working order (the shutter fires and the shutter time

changes although I haven't checked how accurate the shutter is).

 

The (only) problem is that there are only holders for glass plates

with it but I would like to use it with film. Are there any film

holders available for this kind of camera? if yes, where can I get

them? Or should I make something myself? (is this possible?)

 

And would anyone know if the lens would be good enough for colour

film? Or should I just stick to B&W?

 

Here is a URL to a camera that looks very similar:

http://photocollector.narod.ru/012_1.2.jpg (found this on a Russian

web site)

 

I know, lots of questions but thanks in advance for any answer!

 

Thomas

[paulh]

Thomas,

 

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe there are roll film adapters available. Take a look on eb*y or a camera fair (I saw some at Doesburg last weekend here in Holland, and see them on eb*y when browsing the vintage gear). Hopefully someone else will be able to confirm this.

 

Paul

[silent1]

You need film sheaths -- small metal plates with folded edges that hold a sheet of film and slip into the holders in place of a glass plate. They're relatively uncommon, but not impossible to find; I have a full set for the holders I have with my two working plate cameras (a 1927 Zeiss Ikon Ideal 250/7 and a 1935-ish KW Kawee Camera, both 9x12 cm).

 

Yes, it's possible to fabricate film sheaths; at the simplest, a sheet of aluminum 1 mm to 2 mm thick with album corners, painted black, will do the job (and can be made to adapt to smaller film if the camera's an odd size). That lens suggests it may be either 4x5 or half plate (about 4 1/2" x 6 1/2", IIRC); if half plate, an adapter for 4x5 would be a good thing to have anyway, since half plate film is hen's teeth. It might even be 9x12 cm -- there were a few that size with 150 mm lenses -- and if so, I'd just stay with that size for a start; Fomapan 100 and Efke 100 are available in that size from jandcphoto.com at very reasonable prices, though you could also adapt down to 3 1/4" x 4 1/4" (aka quarter plate) and get a couple other emulsion choices.

 

For 9x12 cm and 4x5, at least, film sheaths are uncommon, but not really rare, and don't typically cost much (yet); I have a number of them that I bought while getting my plate cameras ready for service, typically for a couple dollars per sheath. I also have a small quantity of commercially made adapters to hold 3x4 format film in a 9x12 cm plate holder; some time I might have to get some of that size film, if only to try the J&C Classic emulsions. These adapters were common in 9x12 cm cameras sold in America and the UK, where inch size film was more common then centimeter sizes.

[tim obrien]

Donald is right on with his advice. We need to know what the format is to give you better advice. I ahve replaced the groundglass on my 9x12 Trona with a spring back for 3x4 and use standard Type5 double sided film holders in it. As Donald says, 150 is a bit long for 9x12 so this advice is suspect. Measure out the plate holders you have inside edge to inside edge and report back.

 

tim in san jose

[peter_4711]

Hello,

Donald an Tim, my ICA 9x12cm plate holder cameras have a 150cm standard lens, and other models like Voigtlander, AGFA and many too.

But Thomas have not tell determinated the size from this camera is true.

In Germany produce one plant glass plates for any Cameras, but only in black/white.

Film sheeds for plate holders need a adapter in metal or a symple glass enclosure in this size.

A easy work is like the rollfilm- cassette take on the plateholder camera. This rollfilm-cassette with called " RADA and ROLLEX" gives for all plateholder cameras. But work with include ruby window in back for rollfilm numbers in 6x9 and 4,5x6 and any with 6x6cm too.

I can say all my plateholder cameras works perfect with this rollfilm-cassettes, and I'm very satisfied.

Thomas and with include very exellent results for any color films.

Best result are with Fuji Velvia on a tripod.

 

peter

[tim obrien]

peter 4711,

 

Information on these old plattenkameras is a bit rare here in the colonies. Donald and I have shared a lot of info back and forth about what we know about plate holders, film sheaths, roll film holders etc. He has decided to go in one direction (holders and sheaths for 9x12), I have decided to go in the other (double sided film holders for 3x4 film). What helped me decide was the aquisition of three or four other 3x4 press cameras with lots of film holders included. I now have 6 times as many 3x4 cameras as I do 4x5 cameras. They all work, more or less and the aquisition of the springback accesories for my Trona was a great boost to the utility of that piece. It has a 135 Tessar on it that is sharper than my 150 Fujinon W that I use on my 4x5 Speed Graphic.

 

 

I suspect Donald would be interested in aquiring glass plates for his plattenkamera, and I might myself be interested if they weren't too pricey. Now if I could just find a springback for a 6.5x9 camera to allow me to use 2x3 sheetfilm, I would be a happy camper. I have a beautiful Ihagee camera that sadly just sits on the shelf for lack of film.

 

tim in san jose

[silent1]

<i>I suspect Donald would be interested in aquiring glass plates for his plattenkamera, and I might myself be interested if they weren't too pricey.</i><p>

 

You're absolutely correct -- but I don't think it's going to happen. There's been a British film reseller (similar business to jandcphotography.com) that's been working with a Russian film manufacturer to get a run of glass plates done, and the word I had was that they were going to cost in the range of $8 per plate, boxes of 12, and a minimum order of ten boxes (yes, that's almost $1000 minimum order).<p>

 

If the German supplier has 9x12 plates for reasonable cost (say, under $2 per plate) and reasonable minimums ($50 or so, or Euro equivalent), I'd have to do some quick inventing to come up with a good way of developing the plates -- since I don't have a real darkroom, and probably won't in the next year or so, developing in trays is a problem, and most sheet film solutions for tank development don't work with rigid plates. I'd probably have to design a daylight fill tank to hold a single plate, and fabricate it from plastic (ABS sheet or similar) -- not a daunting task, on the face of it.<p>

 

BTW, Tim, it's plural plattenkameren (if I haven't mangled the German, which I don't speak) now; my 1927 Zeiss Ikon Ideal 250/7 is officially in service since this past Sunday. Same 9x12 format, and I've got ten usable plate holders for it. I've also picked up two boxes of expired TXP (ISO 320) in 9x12 cm, and just ordered another box of Fomapan 100, so I'm set to shoot for the next year.

[thomasvdv]

Thank you Paul, Donald, Tim and Peter.

 

I just checked the camera and it seems to be a 9x12 one. Next week I will get the original glass plate holders for it so than I can see how it was used. I will have a look for some holders for it.

 

Thanks Thomas