phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 hello!! i'd appreciate some advice on a shoot i will do on the weekend, and i was really wondering how it will turn out using my vivitar 283 flash and manual pentax k1000. i know i'm not supposed to use a shutter speed faster then the sync of 1/60 usually, but it's outside and being mid-summer, my 400iso film is happy at 3pm in the afternoon with 1/500th at f11, what affect will the flash have outdoors on the photo? i want to experiment using a fill-in flash on a totally manual setup, i believe i just meter it for the outdoor light and fire the flash to fill-in eye shadows, i'm not using filter to soften it really -- though i want to find some silk now from reading another post -- will this affect my photos greatly? ie drastically overexpose my shots? will the latitude of my film balance it out? what should i set the thyristor at? as it's for portraits, i'll be within 10ft of my subject and need a small apeture of f22 according to my flash guide but that seems like it would underexpose the subject by two stops... can someone clear this up? p.s. why is flash photography so confusing and frustrating at times!!! i asked a guy once how to juggle focusing and reading the chart and distance all at once while the action is happening and he said to get automatic gear with TTL... complain complain... i'm just using it in more varied lighting situations and love my solid manual gear and have gotten faster at doing all three simultaniously, a solution i guess:D i'm soo happy with the flash when i was at a punk concert shooting away from the edge of the mosh pit shoving back at hyper people to keep out of my shot of the band for the promoter... hehe and the next week i shoot a wedding all serene-like, go figure... i love photog:D thank-you soo much for any help / advice / reminders not to shove others ie but mostly on the effects of fill-in with faster then a sync shutter speed and f-stop gooday phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot_n Posted August 2, 2004 Share Posted August 2, 2004 The flash won't sync at shutter speeds faster than 1/60 sec. This means that the flash won't hit the film because the shutter curtain will be in the way. You can't get round this limitation of your camera. In the situation you describe you should be shooting with 100iso film. Your shutter speed should be 1/60 sec at f16. Your Vivitar 283 should be set to the blue setting (f8). This will give you fill light which is 2 stops under the sunlight. That's about right for a subtle effect. In this situation you do not want to diffuse your flash, as it will have no visible effect and will simply drain your batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 mmm thanks for your help... the flash's f-stops and shutter sync make more sense now if half the shutter curtain is in the way... would that mean that i would have a bright side if it's in deep sunlight already? or would 1/500 of second not catch any of the flash at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim_elder1 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 At 1/500th of a second, the flash will not go off. Cameras with focal plane shutters only sync with flash bulbs at specific speeds; in the case of the Pentax K1000, the highest speed you can fire a flash off is at 1/60th. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manolis1 Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 "I know I?m not supposed to use a shutter speed faster then the sync of 1/60?" That's the number one rule you have to remember when you use your Pentax K1000 with the flash. "?But it's outside and being mid-summer, my 400iso film is happy at 3pm in the afternoon with 1/500th at f11?" IMO, wrong film (speed) at wrong time (3pm). You say that your camera meter gives you 1/500 at f/11 during that time (3pm), which means if you want to use your flash you have to use 1/60(the highest speed you can use with your flash) at f/32 because 1/500 at f/11 = 1/250 at f/16 = 1/125 at f/22 = 1/60 at f/32. If you use 100 ISO film (IMO, that's the right film speed for the period you want to shoot), you are going to have 1/60 at f/16 because the ISO 100 film is 2 stops slower than ISO 400 film, which means for ISO 400 you get 1/500 at f/11(=1/60 at f/32) therefore for ISO 200 film you?ll get 1/500 at f/8 (=1/60 at f/22) and for ISO 100 film you?ll get 1/500 at f/5.6 (= 1/60 at f/16). "?I want to experiment using a fill-in flash on a totally manual setup?" First of all you'll need a flash meter ($150 and up). Second you have to buy the Vivitar VP-1 Varipower Module ($30) for precisely manual power flash adjustments. If you don't want to spend that extra amount of money for the above equipments, you have to use your flash in Auto Mode. If you want to use your flash for fill-flash, the flash power supposes to be less (at least 1 stop) than the flash power (light power) of the main light (i.e. Sun light or Flash light). If you use ISO 100 film, follow ELIOT'S advise, " Your Vivitar 283 should be set to the blue setting (f8). This will give you fill light which is 2 stops under the sunlight". Therefore, you are going to have, Camera set up: S=1/60 and aperture f/16 and your Vivitar flash, as Eliot said, BLUE (f/8). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 thanks... in the back of my mind i was thinking... i know i shouldn't be out of sync with flash... but it's still something i'd want to try and find out and well talking to you people seems like i can't bend the rules of physics and my camera's shutter... and feel sorta goofy for asking what seems to be a straight forward question yet i still feel like i want to ask and find out more on the film... it's a faster action running after people photojournalistic spontanious on the fly focusing so it's ok if i'm using a fast shutter speed and flexible film... i'm mighty partical to HP5 for that reason of flexibility and also some of it will be in the shade so i still need it for that, but elsewise yah in summer i'm using nothing but FP4 because it's wicked grainwise on the flash.. the f-stops is brand new learning... i read for a couple hours up on it... so to get it straight.. the flash's colour coded guide numbers for distance controls the amount of flash output's intensity? i know it's probably in the manual... but i didn't get one with the used flash when i bought it... so i'll hunt it down, and then once i have the flash's f-stop right, it's the same as what my lens' f-stop should be? yes i'm asking a lot of questions because i want to learn how to use my flash properly and get more confidence using my flash everywhere... totally appreciate you people taking time to answer... so thankyou again gooday phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 i did look at a flash light meter... but i just spent $150 canadian on an awesome handheld gossen lunasix 3 so i gotta save up for that meter... thanks for the advice though because i'm beginning to realize how important those things are and how much stress they take off my mind while shooting... gooday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_chananie Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I know I've written up fairly extensive explanations on this topic at least a couple of times. If you search the archives using my name you should find them. All best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_chananie Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 Found them. Other people wrote up good advice too. http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005uC4 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008uSf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 3, 2004 Author Share Posted August 3, 2004 beers of cheers to you david... i'm on it!! keep shooting!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris m., central florida Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 If you are shooting outside, you can try using a silver or white reflector to bounce natural light onto your subject. Often, this will have the same effect as fill flash - if not better. Fill flash is more versatile under changing lighting conditions and faster to use once you get used to setting the flash output. Also, with the reflector, once you are bouncing light onto your subject, you can simply meter using your camera's built in meter or the handheld meter you have. Whenever shooting outdoor portraits - and I shoot quite a few - I try to use a reflector instead of fill flash if the situation permits this approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Of course, using a ND filter, polarizer, or a slower film may help you overcome the slow sync-speed of your camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsbc Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Sorry, that was only half the answer. the above combination will allow you to use a larger aperture at any given sync speed, so you are not confined to shooting at F22 @ 1/60s if you want to use a fill-flash. the fact that you have a slow sync speed means you have to have a powerful flash. ie, a smaller flash with a lower guide number would not be able to provide a flash power that can overcome the a small aperture. If you want to take a photo in bright sunshine 3 metres away, using F22 at 1/60s with ISO 100 film means your flash has to have a guide number of 33. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 true reflectors are neat!! i hadn't thought of one because it's a one person shooting situation... i have worked with a reflector as an assistant to a wedding photographer, it took me a couple of long formal sessions to figure it out and i had a good idea of what was required... so finding someone on short notice at a wedding idunno it could work... probably been hashed out before but what is a good idea for a one man shoot for catch lights, i appreciate the new angle though when i can find $20-150 for a nifty reflector of sorts to work coz agreed it does do much more then flash sometimes ND and polarizer filters, oi vey!! more and more filters to be used and remembered to be calculated into your handheld meter and flash oi... but thankyou that stuff hadn't crossed my mind either until you start really shooting and then realize what the teacher was saying in class does make sense after all, as well which links to earlier discussions would help me for guide numbers as that last one from david proved very helpful thanks i'm partly asking to stimulate more discussion for others who might read this as well and find what they need and partly coz i can learn a ton when i ask lots of questions to the gurus who populate this place, cheers and gooday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil r calgary ab canada Posted August 5, 2004 Author Share Posted August 5, 2004 do i?? but i type a lot so hopefully it all flows... phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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