Nikon 85mm 1.4 and 1.8 Ai/Ai-s lens evaluations?

[simon larbalestier]

Does anyone have views on the bokeh qualities of the MF Nikon 85mm

lens in 1.4 and 1.8 models pre Ai, Ai and Ai-s when shot wide open.

The reason I'm asking is I normally shoot with a 1957 105 f.2.5 on a

Nikon rangefinder and am looking into getting an old F3 with an 85mm

for shooting wide open and wondered about the picture making

qualities of the older glass and the later versions in terms of the

out of focus parts of the image when shot at full aperture. I mainly

work in black and white so contrast is not such an issue.

Many thanks and wishing you all the best for 2005

 

Simon Larbalestier

www.simon-larbalestier.co.uk

contactme@simon-larbalestier.co.uk

[jose_angel]

I like very much your images at "Between two worlds"... Are this shots made with your Nikon RF? Which lenses? Thanks,

[albert_smith]

Not on your short list, but still a viable option for a manual focus 85mm is the f/2.0 model. It is small, light and pretty sharp. I use mine along with a 105mm f/2.5 as my standard medium telephoto lenses (although not at the same time), and never feel slighted by the look from the 85mm. Below are some links to several shots (in color, sorry) all made at full aperture. Several of the shots have both foreground and background blur, so that you can see how each are rendered.<P>

 

 

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195259"> 1 </a>,<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195293"> 2 </a>, <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195295"> 3 </a>, <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195302&size=lg"> 4 </a>, <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195252"> 5 </a>, <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2195247&size=lg"> 6 </a>

[kelly_flanigan1]

Simon your old 1957 105 f.2.5 is a "Sonnar" optical design; and is the same as the pre 1970 Nikon F 105mm F2.5 tele's optical design. I own a LTM 10.5cm F2.5; and a 1960's 105mm F2.5 for Nikon F. In 1971; the 105mm was redesigned as a "Gauss" lens design; it is slightly sharper at close distances of say 2 meters by a hair. I mention all this becuase many folkd here use the new Gauss design 105mm; which might be different than your lens in out of focus qualities.

[michaelchristensen]

try kenrockwell.com - he talk specifically about bokeh; don't know if he answers your question but from what I've read some say the 1.4 is better; other say the 1.8 is almost indicernabile from the 1.4, but the price differences between the two lenses significant - as construction issues are very different; the 1.4 being the heavy, better built lens.

[akira_sasaki1]

Try looking at this thread:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005KcV

 

and this:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005EdV

 

Seriously, with the MF lenses so cheap, why don't you just get a couple of them and only keep the one(?) you like? You probably won't lose (much) money...

 

BTW, I do have the AF-D 85/1.4, and I love the creamy bokeh. It works really nice on the F3. The AF 85/1.4s are coming down quite a bit in price recently as well.

[simon larbalestier]

Thank you for all your advice; i've checked the two photo.net threads and the lens evaluations were interesting but because i shoot primarily in black and white i find the out of focus areas in the colour examples hard to judge visually but they do give me an idea.

In answer to your question Joel, most of the work on my site was shot with Plaubel Makinas which have fixed Nikkor 80mm F2.8 lenses. The 35mm's were shot with a Lecia M6 and a 50mm Noctilux at F1.0.

I've yet to upload the recent work shot with the Nikon S3 and the 50mm 1.4 and 105 2.5 lenses. 95% of the images are at full aperture.

Simon

[paul t]

Hi Simon, I own an 851.4 AI, which I use with an old FE2, I like the OOF

rendition, it's very creamy, although I';ve seen some people criticise its look

when there are highlights in there. <p>I know your work well thru Vaughan O,

who's an old mate of mine, so I guess if you want to borrow mine for a week or

so to try it out, email me offline.

[akira_sasaki1]

Hi Simon,

 

I forgot to give you link for the 85/1.8 pre-Ai:

 

http://www2.alice-novell.cc/sample/gin-man/nina/index2.html

 

Look at the two links on bottom of the page. In the first link, the upper 2 photos are with the 85, and in the second, upper 4 photos. They're color pics as well. Maybe try de-saturating them in Photoshop to get some idea?

 

hth

[harvey_edelstein1]

I think that the reason that the 85mm f1.4 has a better Bokeh has to do with the 9 blade/leaf in the aperture. I have noticed that more blades/leaf make oof highlights rounder and also curved blades instead of straight blades also makes for better Bokeh. If this makes you happier ok is it worth 2.5x the price It depends on the heft of your wallet and whether you are an honorary Scottsman like me.

 

For a great viewfinder like that on an F3 either lens will help make the view at least 3 times as bright as the D70 viewfinder. Can you get by with just a little less light than the f1.8 will be just as good.

[lex_jenkins]

Dunno 'bout the 85/1.4 or f/1.8 but the 85/2 AIS has barely a hair's difference from the 105/2.5 AI.

 

In fact, the difference is discernable only at the level of individual hairs. My 85/2 *may* be ever so slightly sharper wide open at minimum focus than my 105/2.5.

 

But I'd have to compare slides to be sure there's a real difference. It's difficult to trust prints from Frontier minilabs due to the sharpening.

 

Otherwise I can't see any difference in performance between the two lenses. Good bokeh in most cases, tho' most manual focus Nikkors I've owned and used revealed some fairly harsh, cross-eyed bokeh in some circumstances. It depends on aperture, focus distance and shape of out of focus objects. Linear objects such as twigs and building edges tend to be rendered rather harshly. Foliage, faces and other less well defined out of focus objects are more softly blended.

[red_buckner]

Simon, I can't fault the 85mm 1.4 AIS for anything. Here's an example of its performance:<p>

<img src="http://mysite.verizon.net/vze7asgb/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shir2.jpg">

[oswegophoto]

I use the 85mm f/1.8 pre-AI on my F3, and have an example <a href="http://

www.photo.net/photo/2952646">here</a> showing its nice bokeh.

BTW, it has only 6 blades, proving that aberration triumphs over even a hexagonal

aperture. And AI'd versions like mine go pretty cheap these days.

[simon larbalestier]

Thanks everyone for all the info and to those who emailed me off line

i'm now torn between a pre Ai 1.8 HC, the later 1.4 AIS and the AF 1.4 D-IF (which i see from various online specs has 9 rounded aperture blades). The OFF areas of images and people's definitions of good bokeh and lens "signatures" is such a subjective and personal viewpoint which is what, for me, makes the world of photography and image making so fascinating.