Question about wide angle 4 x 5 lens

[sylvia_sensiper]

I have been shooting with a 4 x 5 and a 150 lens for a while now

with success. I just rented two wide angle lenses, a 58mm and 90mm

but I can get neither to focus on the ground glass. Any

suggestions? I didn't realize they would be that different than a

150.

 

(I posted this previously, but not sure where it got posted to).

 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[nicholas_t.]

Those lenses will focus at infinity at their respective focal lengths. So, the 58mm will be 58mm away from the groundglass @ infinity and the 90mm will be 90mm away from the groundglass.<p>

If you can't get the lenses close enough, especially for the 58mm because it probably needs a recessed lensboard to fit...<p>

Lotsa cameras can handle a 90mm without a recessed lensboard and so see how close you can get it to the groundglass...<p>

Good luck

[ellis_vener_photography]

Do you have a contential accordian like bellows on the camera (and what camera are you

using) or are you using a "bag" type wide angle bellows. if it is the former it is likely that

you will be unable to getthe lens close enough to grofilm plane & groundglass to focus. In

the meantime you could try doing some very close up photography.

[sergio_ortega7]

Sylvia,

 

You did not state the camera model you are using. Check your camera's specs to determine the minimum focusing distance capability of your particular model.

 

As the previous poster noted, most 4x5 cameras will have great difficulty focusing a 58mm at infinity without a recessed lensboard and/or a bag bellows. Older, flatbed field cameras are the most limiting designs. They can handle a 150mm beautifully, wide angle lenses can be difficult to use.

 

The 90mm is another matter. Most modern and older view cameras should be able to handle a 90mm lens at infinity without resorting to a recessed lensboard or bag bellows. However, I've used older wooden field cameras that could not focus a 90mm when the camera was set up with all the elements in their neutral positions. These older designs required the use of the drop-bed technique to achieve infinity focus with shorter focal lengths. The drop-bed method is hard to describe, but easy to understand if seen.

 

Briefly it goes as follows:

 

1. Angle the bed/rail of the camera downwards, about 30-40 degrees from horizontal.

 

2. Tilt the front lens panel backwards as you also raise the front lens panel upwards. Then rotate the lens panel parallel to the rear film standard.

 

This allows you to physically achieve closer minimum focusing distances between the standards. It's a pain, but necessary with many older cameras.

 

Hope this helps.

[sylvia_sensiper]

I am using a Calumet Cambo with a Schneider Super Angulon 5.6/90 and a Schneider Super Angulon 5.6/58 XL-110 with a recessed lens plate.

 

I worked a little harder and I got both to focus, but only at very close range, so I think I have had the wrong idea about what I could do with these lenses. Am I right in thinking that wide angle large format lenses are used primarily for close-up work? I had an opposite understanding or perhaps misconception.

[John Crowe]

No, these lenses will focus at infinity. I do not know a lot about your camera but I highly suspect you need a bag bellows. As a previous member posted try actually measuring the distance from the lensboard to the film plane and see if you are anywhere near the focal length of each lens. 58mm is just over 2-1/4" and 90mm is just under 4", so you see you need to be VERY close to the back of the camera. Good luck!

[michael_briggs2]

The 58 and 90 mm Super-Angulons are not macro lenses -- they are designed for objects at a distance from the camera. The others are guessing that you are not getting the lenses close enough to the ground glass. The fact that you can focus on close objects supports this guess -- the lens is farther from the image for close objects. Once you focus on a close object, to focus on a more distant object you need to move the lens closer to the ground glass. Will the camera let you do that?

[sylvia_sensiper]

I do have a bag bellows, but the lens is as close to the ground glass as possible -- I have to go back to the camera store tomorrow, so I guess I will ask them what I am possibly doing wrong.

thanks!

[peter_white2]

If your camera has both a base tilt and an axis tilt for the front standard, you should be able to get the lens close enough to focus at infinity. Here's my Wisner 4x5 with a 65mm lens mounted, using the bag bellows. See how the front brass rails are angled back, putting the front standard closer to the rear standard than it could get if I had them vertical. With your 58mm lens, the front standard wold have to get 7mm closer to the rear standard to focus at infinity, but you should be able to do it, if you have both base and axis tilts.<div></div>

[peter_white2]

Here's the same camera and lens. But now, the brass rails are vertical, in line with the front standard. The two standards are as close together as they can possibly go. Yet, the lens won't focus to infinity, since it can't get close enough.<div></div>

[John Crowe]

A picture certainly is worth a thousand words. Well done Peter!

[peter_white2]

By the way, if your camera does have both axis and base tilts, you should be able to get infinity focus with the 58mm lens, without using the recessed lens board. Recessed lens boards add complication to adjusting the camera, since when you make an axis tilt using the recessed board, you change the vertical location of the optical center of the lens, so your framing changes. With an axis tilt and a flat lens board, your framing won't change when you make an axis tilt, since most lenses are designed such that the optical center of the lens is positioned in the center of the lens board, on axis with the pivot.

 

Unfortunately, with the rails angled back for infinity focus, you won't be able to make a front base swing without altering the horizontal framing, regardless of whether you have a flat board or recessed. Along a vertical axis, the board becomes effectively recessed once you angle the rails back. In other words, with the lens board behind the vertical pivot of the front standard base, the lens moves laterally when you swing the front standard. But hopefully your camera has a rear swing.

 

Another problem with recessed boards is it makes it difficult to use a regular cable release, and you have to reach in to make f stop and shutter speed adjustments. I would avoid recessed lens boards if at all possible.

 

If this doesn't make sense, just ask, and I'll take some more pics tomorrow. ;-)