brambor Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I have started with Leica M6TTL about 3 weeks ago. My initial issues were:<P>1. Viewfinder flare<P>2. Obscured lower right hand corner of the viewfinder<P>3. Focusing a rangefinder<P>4. The annoying meter display in the viewfinder.<P>5. Using my right eye to look through the viewfinder.<P>Here is where I stand today:<P>1. Bought Lutz's SHADE. It helped to cut down the flare. In the meantime I kept improving my focusing. I took the shade off today as the flare does not bother me anymore in focusing. And the viewfinder frame is brighter. <P>2. It is still the funniest part of a $1000 camera but it doesn't bother me. My roll of pictures came out just fine. <P>3. This was really an adjustment for me. I'm still adjusting but I am getting better every day with this. I also shoot CANON D30 and KonicaT1(manual SLR). When I compare recent shots from those three cameras I notice my Leica pictures get the best focus of them all. <P>4. I was thinking about removing the battery and using my handheld meter but one of the members implored me NOT to do it. He suggested sticking with it and learning how to use it. LOL After I misplaced my Gossen lightmeter I had no choice. That was 2 weeks ago. I shot an entire roll with the meter and did good. I utilized reading exposure off my hand in difficult situations and learned that my meter likes to suggest 1/2 stop overexposure so I am compensating for that. <P>5. Screw it. I'm using either eye and I'm fine. <P><P>I love the diminutive size of the camera lenses vs my goliath Canon lenses. It is just amazing. <P>I really feel that I will stick with it. It fits my style. In the future I plan on getting M3 to use with a 50mm cron and a 90mm summicron for portraits. <P>I am finishing up a roll now which will be my first that I will develop on my own without any help. I am very excited about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 All five of your issues really relate to the same thing: You're spending too much time looking through the viewfinder, and not enough time relating to your subject, which is what the M camera allows the photographer to do best. I think many new M users try to use the camera as if it were a Single Lens Reflex camera, and then they grow disappointed at its failing to be an SLR. The two are entirely different beasts, physically and philosophically. <p> Even the focusing of a Leica M ought to have been mostly completed by the time you bring the camera to your eye, this using the method that Carl Weese talked about in a great article called "The Leica Mystique" I think published in "Camera and Darkroom" (before its demise) in the mid 90's (but I may be wrong; I'll try to find a link). He talked about a fundamental difference between using a Leica M rangefinder and an SLR: You look "into" an SLR (spending lots of time composing, focusing, setting exposure, etc.); you look "through" the M (having completed most of your eye-hand-camera controls automatically). The difference I have learned is really quite amazing and is one of the aspects of the M camera that allows the photographer a greater connection to his or her subject, rather than being more isolated from the subject with a larger camera in between them. The M viewfinder does not give you an extremely precise view of the final image, and the M's most famous practioners probably rarely expected such a reliable view. Lens shades always seem to get in the way (you should try the latest Noctilux, the one with the built-on shade), there's flare, there're even blinking lights now (before the M6, there were no lights at all, and that was the case for some 30 years). <p> Anyway, experienced M users (and I'm not speaking necessarily of myself) use the finder mostly for that last fraction of a moment before exposure --- not too long, or else you'll miss the shot -- for for that "final framing decision" that takes place in a fraction of a "Leicasecond." This is partly the reason that the M camera is so well suited for capturing that decisive moment. The finder should be used only to approximate your picture composition in the fleeting second that you have left before the "shot" disappears. For greater accuracy, and at the same time for a much more planned approach to a picture, an SLR is better. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Rene, <br><br> <i>>> 4. The annoying meter display in the viewfinder <<</i> <br><br> Try <a href="http://www.quickreleaseplate.com/m6switchphotopage.html">The Rose</a>.<br><br> I haven't used it but Tom Abrahamsson has a good opinion of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 <i>You look "into" an SLR (spending lots of time composing, focusing, setting exposure, etc.); you look "through" the M (having completed most of your eye-hand-camera controls automatically)</i> <p> Really? Well maybe I'm weird then. Even with SLR, I visualise the framing before taking the camera to my eye, set aperture/shutter speed and guesstimate focus. I use mostly 50mm so I don't have to look through the viewfinder to see its coverage. <p> Fiddling with control while looking through the viewfinder? Nahh..set to Av mode and say f/2.8, Center-Weighted-Average metering mode! The quick dial control takes less than 1/4 sec for adjusting exposure compensation when necessary. With negative films, I won't even bother. <p> You are talking about new SLR users with zoom lens here who takes ages to decide which focal length, what aperture, etc etc. <p> I have an RF system too although it's not Leica. The advantage is smaller size and always bright viewfinder even if you mount ND8 or 25A filter. And yes, RF is less intimidating when photographing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 I would like to be able to focus by approximating the distance to the subject. I don't think I'm ready to do that just yet. Perhaps in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_. Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Rene: Good for you - you made it through a roll. Congratulations! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 Hehehe. I shot 12 exposure roll of crap for my darkroom 101 class. Then I shot a real roll of XP2 and now I'm 2/3 through another HP5plus. Hey stop picking on me. I did finish a 36exp of K64 on my Konica this weekend during our trip to Isleboro, ME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnmarkpainter Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Rene, It is good practice to set your Focus and exposure to what you THINK it might be before lifting the camera up to your eye. You are basically going to encounter three types of light. After a while you will get a feel for it. The M3 view is a lot nicer than the M6. Bigger Finder, no Meter, less Brightlines at one time. What lens is blocking your view? If it is a hood you could consider getting a Vented Hood. jmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 I don't know if it came across clear in the original message but I wanted to say that any of the points that were an issue are no longer a problem. <P> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Rene, are you in Maine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 Yes. I am in Windham, Maine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>The Leica's strength as an image making device has NOTHING to do with the viewfinder - which relative to SLR viewfinders is a JOKE.</i><p> Well, to each his own I guess, couldn't disagree more. Probably has something to do with what you're used to anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I spend some time in Harpswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>you can use the sunny 14/16/18 or whatever rule and get things vaguely focussed and vaguely framed and kid yourself about the results</i><p> Guess I've been kidding myself for 25 years or so. Is Jay channeling through you? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>As for having focus and framing set before the camera comes to your eye - this is OK if you don't want to use the glass for its strengths</i><p> Gee, I thought the strength of glass was to take pictures. Is there anything you said I agree with? Let me see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>use the Leica on a TRIPOD and astound yourself at the quantum leap in quality you get for these type of set-up shots.</i><br><br><br>this kind of advice is such bullshyt....you wouldnt be able to tell a leica print from a nikon or canon print if your life depended on it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>"The Leica system's strengths come from Leica GLASS. The rangefinder idiosyncracies are put up with for the sake of Leica GLASS."</i><p>I so totally completely 100% disagree with this. It is like saying that the strength of a Porsche is in the leather seats. Yeah, great to have, sure adds some sparkle. But to me, the quality and characteristics of the glass of the Leica and the leather of the Porsche are the least important features. To me, the ability to capture the photograph NOW, and not 14 miliseconds from NOW is the best feature of the Leica M, and I'm not just referring to the lack of shutter delay; many higher-end dSLRs, TLRs, aren't haunted by this flaw. I'm talking connection to the brain. If the eye-brain-hand coordination is working properly, then it is unnecessary to "think" and to "consider" what the controls, menus, knobs, twisties, pointers, cursors, options, modes need to be "set" at to capture the photograph NOW. Look at all the great small-format documentary photography of the 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, and even today. It is much more by chance (so far) that a dSLR, MF, LF, or many other formats/styles, can get the right shot NOW than with the Leica M camera where eye-brain-hand connection has been so evident.<p>It is the handholdability, ergonomics, "feel," and "connection" to the human being that is the strength of the Leica M. These are all what make it what it is. Glass is WAY down the list of priorities for a candid system, at least in the evidence that we have seen over the last half a century or so. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i>It is much more by chance (so far) that a dSLR, MF, LF, or many other formats/styles, can get the right shot NOW than with the Leica M camera where eye-brain-hand connection has been so evident. </i><br><br><br>is everyone crazy here? this is another bullshyt statement....where do you guys get this crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I was only seeing if you were still awake, grant. :-) Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 maybe you should pinch yourself...u seem to be in a coma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 u wont get a shaprer pic just bc its on a tripod....many dynamics are involved in that....sharp doesnt mean better anyway...and i was the one that mentioned canon and nikon....guess u missed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <i> I'll bet anything the same handheld shot using a Leica camera will be better focussed and executed on a tripod </i> <br> <br> tell that to HCB....heh...ur full of it 2nite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 heh, nice tactic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 <center> <img src= "http://chaospress.com/images/2-figures-720.jpg"<BR> <I>"I'd like to see the Quai Chang Kane of photography actually shoot like this rather than blather about it"</I> <center> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 ray, dont u find it hard to carry a tripod and shoot so candidly?? how did u do that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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