Which used MF TLR?

[ehaque]

I am thinking about getting into medium format. My research says I

should get an used TLR as my first MF camera.

 

First, I was pretty sure I was getting a Seagull, but reading one

post on this site I decided anything else is better than that. So

now I'm asking you guys.

 

I need a TLR that has all the usefull features that a TLR should

have for ease of use. Like auto-parallax and all that. I need to

know which models and makes are safe and which are not. Which do you

recommend? One condition is that it should be cheap like a seagull.

 

I know Yashica Mat, Rollei, Mamiya they are all good but I also know

there are some models that are avoided by the experienced

photographers. So I need to know which ones are good.

[StuartMoxham]

Most of the TLRs are rather old now so I would suggest finding a good condition working one rather than trying to find a particular model. The Rolleis Yashicas Minoltas Mamiyas are all good and will all give you a good starting point.

[david_fennema]

The Yashica-D is a nice choice. The one I bought was a little beat up, but still works

fine, and the pics I get out of it are quite nice. It has no light meter, but most old tlr's

don't (and if it did you probably wouldn't want to trust it anyway). So I would plan to

invest in a light meter if you don't already have one. I use an old Sekonic Studio

Deluxe II, which doesn't require batteries and is almost as old as the camera. Of

course you could always use one of your other cameras for metering, but that kinda

takes the fun out of it, I find. The D was produced with two different lenses (I think

the Yashinon is the newer, sharper version, but I've always used the older model, and

I've always been pleased.) It's a great little camera, and tlr's on the whole are a blast

to use, so I think you're in for a treat. Good luck!

[h._p.]

Don't dismiss the Seagull so readily. I've had one and they're not too bad, if a bit basic. The later model, with the concertina style finder hood, can produce good sharp images. It has a nice viewfinder and a good sharp lens. The biggest drawback is that they don't have the bayonet filter fittings used by most other TLRs, which makes finding filters and hoods a little more problematic.

 

If you do want to go for something else, the best option is a Rolliecord V or a Minolta Autocord. The Rolliecord is very simple and well made, the Autocord more sophisticated (with a unique and excellent focussing mechanism) but not quite so well made. In the UK, either of these would cost around £80 for a nice specimen which is about the same price as a Seagull.

[oskar_ojala]

Many Rolleis don't focus so close that parallax would be an issue. Mamiyas do. If you want to do close-up photography, a TLR is not a good choice.

 

I agree with the above posters, but bear in mind that there are more differences between TLRs than one would initially think, eg. while the image quality of a Mamiya was quite sufficient, I found that in terms of ergonomics a Rolleiflex was clearly the camera for me.

[gary_ferguson1]

I've never used a Seagull but generally accept the axiom that even an indifferent MF camera will outperform an excellent 35mm camera, if resolution is your only criterion.

 

However this week in a British photographic magazine there was a review of the new Seagull which said the film was climbing up the spool edge which made every shot soft. Given Harvey's comments it seems there's good Seagulls and not so good Seagulls. Your question asked what's "safe", this doesn't sound safe to me.

[patrick_s2]

If it has to be cheap...I had a Yashica that shot so sharp you show me the guy who could tell the difference with handheld Hassy equiptment. Depends what you want to shoot, and what lens focal length your looking for. I would consider Yashica seriously. You can find real bargains at camera show.

 

Good Luck,

 

Patrick Shea

[lachaine]

Just read down a few threads. There is plenty of discussion about that already, and much of it very useful. Just look at threads with similar titles as this one, or anything that says TLR, Rolleiflex, Rolleicord or Yashica.

[ken_kuzenski]

Patrick Shea said, "I had a Yashica that shot so sharp you show me the guy who could tell the difference with handheld Hassy equipment." This has been exactly my own experience; my first MF camera, 3 years ago, was a Yashica-C I bought on Ebay. After I saw the 11x14 prints from it, I realized that MF was the ONLY way I wanted to do B&W. After a couple of months I sold the Yashica and bought a Hassy 500cm and 3 lenses.

 

I've got prints on my wall (11x14 fiber prints) that were done with the Hassy and ones that were done with the Yashica. And I know which is which, but I don't think ANYBODY could tell just by looking at the prints. If you use medium apertures, don't shoot into the sun, and use a tripod, ANY medium-format camera is likely to give you great results--barring major misfunctions like the film crawling up the spool, as another poster mentioned. The person who recommended finding a decent camera in working shape at a fair price, and not worrying about specific models, gave you very good advice IMO. You might try what I did: look on ebay for someone with solid feedback and a less-desirable TLR model (like the early Yashicas), email him and tell him what you want, and see if it sounds like a good starting point. GOOD LUCK! --Ken

[doug_bennett]

Another fine contender is the Minolta Autocord. I have one, as well as a Yashica Mat, and generally prefer the Autocord due to ergonomics. The focus at the bottom is a great idea.

 

Whatever you buy, budget an extra $80.00 or so and send it off immediately for a CLA. After that, it's good to go for another decade or two! TLRs are great fun to use.

[ehaque]

<b>harvey</b> and all,

 

All the square pictures you see here: http://angelcurls.deviantart.com/gallery/ were taken with a Seagull 4B, and this photographer claims its a great camera. So I was planning to get one. I only changed my mind after I read that they breakdown unexpectedly and cause other optical problems. But what do you say about those photos. Quite good eh?

 

Thank you all for your responses, now I have a good idea what to look for.

[lachaine]

A Seagull is the first camera I considered when I was looking to get into MF. It didn't take long to see that the price of a new, late model one is the same or more than a terrific old Yashica-mat or Rolleiflex. Needless to say, I didn't end up with a Seagull.

[oskar_ojala]

I looked at the images and while there's nothing wrong with them, you must bear in mind that they are not even close to show what 6x6 is capable of due to their small size. Last time I was in the darkroom, I printed a 16x18" image from a 6x6 BW neg and it was tack sharp, even up close. The image was taken with a Rolleiflex.

[emile_de_leon10]

Rolliecord 4 and up w/xenar...buy in ex+ cond....knock your socks off at f8. Yashica w/yashinon....killer at f11. Condition of the camera is very important.

[victor_lioce]

I strongly recommend the Mamiya TLRs. I used them for years. They are real work horses, have interchangable lenses & finders, and are lightweight compared to SLRs. The optics are good. Stay away from lenses that are not all black on the outside. These are typically not multicoated. A good used Mamiya C220 can be had for under $100 US with an 80mm normal lens. Lenses range from a 45mm wide angle to a 250 mm tele. The C330 has more features than the C220, but the added features also mean more weight if that is a strong consideration. But the C330 does offer built in parallex correction. It can be acurate, but I would always shoot a test to make sure it's not out of alignment. Most of these cameras can use a good CLA, just to make sure. Some of the lenses can have fungus between the elements. Don't buy from anyone, regardless of the make/model you buy, if they won't give you a no questions money back test period of at least 7-10 days. Good Luck!

[ehaque]

Thanks a lot Victor, Mamiya 220 and 330 are my first choices. But they dont have a light meter right? I have to get a light meter to use this camera? I dont want to use my 35mm canon as a light meter for my MF camera, thats not fun.

[pavelp]

Mamiyas do not have a meter but if you really want a built in meter, you can either get CdS porrofinder or Baier-Foto prism (45deg). Porrofinders are darker than prisms but prisms are more expensive. The most expensive Baier prism offers both spot and integral metering. However, whatever gizmo you get, the meter will be uncoupled (you will have to transfer the reading to camera controls manually). Actually, you could also get one off those clipon meters and slide it in the camera accessory shoe for almost the same effect (except the metering will not be TTL then).

 

Baier-Foto has a website at: www.baierfoto.de

[ehaque]

Thank you Pavel. Thats REALLY helpfull. But what do people use usually, with meterless MF cameras?

[pavelp]

I think people mostly use a handheld meter with meterless camera. I always thought that it's gonna be an annoyance but I've got used to it really fast. Gives you more time to think about how you set the exposure and also teaches you to guesstimate the light should you forget the meter in your other jacket.

 

The real annoyance are dying/innacurate selenium builtin meters. Imagine paying more for the camera because it has a builtin meter just to watch he meter die three weeks later. Older CdS cells can die fast too (but you can get a replacement if you are willing to pay a lot).