National parks from Phoenix to LA in February

[raivo_vanags]

<p>Hello! </p> <pre>

 

<p>I know this topic has been covered to tears on Photo.net, but

there always seems to be individual issues not covered on those

wonderful responses on the net. </p><pre>

 

<p>I'm planning to go to sw of US from Feb 13 � Feb 27 traveling

(last mnute tickets:) ) from Phoenix through Grand Canyon to LA as a

final destination prior returning to Phoenix for a flight back home.

</p><pre>

 

<p>I was planning the trip and then basically stack at the distance

to be covered from GC to Lake Powell (as it seems is the only way

around GC, is it?). As I have ordered several books from Amazon but

it's expected to get them no sooner that Friday. So I'm stuck in my

planning as I need to make reservations for hotels (at least in

LasVegas and LA). </p><pre>

 

<p>I would be glad if you could answer to some question (if you have

time of course). So here they are: </p><pre>

 

<p><b>1) </b>Here's sort of preliminary schedule I have with dates to

fill as I'm not sure is it manageable and is it wise (bear in mind

that I don't knw when I can ever come back to sw or US so I don't

have a luxury of visiting one park at a time :(( ): </p><pre>

 

<p>13.Feb- flying-in Phoenix/got to Sedona (194km.Est: 2H 10m), too

late for evening photography, stay in Wildflower Inn </p>

<p>14.Feb- photo: sunrise@Sedona/ going to Grand Canyon (243km.Est:

5H 21m), photo: sunset@GC/ stay in Holiday Inn Express or any of

these lodges: <a

href="http://www.grandcanyonlodges.com/galleries/img_127.htm">GrandCan

yon lodges</a> (not the ones of $100+) </p>

<p>15.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ if the weather allows South Kaibab

down, Bright Angel up, photo: sunset@GC/ </p>

<p>16.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ via Desert view (Hhwy64) to ??? Lake

Powell? � is this the only way to north around GC? Previously I

thought that's the way to go but now I'm cofused as I looked in

Expedia's calculator and it stated it's 520 km and 11 hrs 28 mins!!

of driving. Is it so? <p>Is there any other way? (btw. how precise

are Expedias routes and estimates?). </p>

<p>17.Feb- Lake Powell </p>

<p>18.Feb- Monument Valley </p>

<p>19.Feb-Page </p>

<p>20.Feb-Bryce </p>

<p>21.Feb-Zion </p>

<p>22.Feb-Zion </p>

<p>23.Feb- arrive Lvegas, photo: sunset@LV (maybe) & nightly Vegas

</p>

<p>24.Feb-from LV to LA ()</p>

<p>25.Feb- LA </p>

<p>26.Feb- LA </p>

<p>27.Feb-go from LA to Phoenix: (600km.Est: 5H 56m) </p>

 

<p>If I could get past GC on a shorter route without visiting Lake

Powell it would be great.

I'm not sure I hae correctly stated the places I want to visit but

what I would like to see (without GC) is: </p>

<p>Zion, Bryce, Monument Valley, Antelope canyon and Arches (I have

dropped Death Valley already). </p>

 

<p><b>2</b>)Any thoughts about those hotels/motels I've listed? Any

other advice? (I don't want to stay in too expensive places but also

not in a dump place either (holidays should be nice, don't they): </p>

<p>Bryce: BRYCE VIEW LODGE/ruby's </p>

<p>Zion: QUALITY INN AT ZION PARK </p>

<p>Monument Valley: Gouldings Longe </p>

<p>probably you know any good places in LV and LA as well? </p>

<p>I've heard that one must be flexible with his schedule during the

visit on sw � but how do you maage your hotel reservations? don't mae

any at all and just hope there's a place or what? </p>

<p><b>3) </b>Are those distances (and routes) from Expedia correct

and reliable? </p>

<p>Zion-Bryce Canyon: 218 km 3 hrs 54 mins </p>

<p>Page-Bryce Canyon: 132 km 3 hrs 18 mins </p>

<p>Zion-LVegas: 272 km 3 hrs 12 mins </p>

<p>Monument Valley-Page: 206 km 3 hrs 12 mins </p>

<p>Lake Powell-Monument Valley: 379 km 7 hrs 52 mins </p>

<p><b>4) </b>Do I really need SUV for the trip on February or is a

compact good as well? Is it so that you place chains on tires during

a snow time? are those supplied with the car? I have no problem

driving in winter, it's just that we have winter tires on our cars

during the winter time� </p>

<p>I have also heard a statement that US rental rates are more

expensive via internet that in reality in US � is it so or it's just

rubbish? </p>

<p><b>5)</b>on photography � I've read a polarizer is a must at

canyons � is it? Is it a wise idea to bring them there even if I

haven't used any polarizers in my life? </p>

<p>Thanks a lot, </p>

 

<p>Raivo </p>

P.S. forgive my typo:)

</pre>

[ShunCheung]

Your question is a very long one. I hope people have the patience to read the entire post.

<P>

Here are a couple of links that you may find useful.

<UL>

<LI>

<P>

Back in May, 1999, I went on a trip to the southern Utah national parks: Zion, Bryce, and Arches. My starting point was Las Vegas. You may find some information from this <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/nature/utah.htm">post-trip article</A>.

<LI>

In December 2001, I went to the Grand Canyon from Los Angeles through Las Vegas. That trip also included Antelope and Monument Valley. Here is <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=001p6c">a discussion before my trip</A> and some follow up afterwards.

</UL>

<P>

There is also <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00717L">a current thread</A> on a very similar trip.

<P>

Some additional information. Hiking down and then up the Grand Canyon in a day is a challenge. I have done that once in 1975 when my entire highschool graduating class did it together. That was in May and it was hot. Our feet were hurting for several days afterwards. I would spend 2, 3 days shooting a GC.

<P>

It can be cold there in February and you can run into snow storms or at least poor weather. Expect to lose a couple of days. In particular, Bryce is at high altitude: 8000 ft/2500 meters. It will be cold in February and I would check road conditions. Ruby's Inn is near by and seems to be a nice place to stay. I stayed inside Bryce but had lunches at Ruby's.

<P>

The drive from Las Vegas to Zion is about 3 hours, and it is 2 hours from Zion to Bryce. That was in May and the roads were clear. In February, you need to take snow into consideration.

<P>

A polarizer can be useful but you can also over polarize, i.e. ending with very contrast images with an almost black instead of blue sky.

[louie]

Raivo,

 

I received your questions via e-mail, but I´ll respond here. My responses will necessarily be short as I am currently in Argentina visiting (and shooting) Los Glaciares and will shortly be heading to Chile to trek the Torres del Paine. So, I´m kinda busy right now.

 

In your itinerary, you mention a stop at Lake Powell. Could you be more specific? Lake Powell is a big lake, and I don´t see how expedia can give you accurate distances without specifying at least a city.

 

In any event, it looks like a better trip would be to leave from GC and then go to Monument Valley - about a 4 hour drive. Then head back from Monument Valley to Page, which is also about 4 hours. This keeps your backtracking to a minimum. From there, you can head along north of the Grand Canyon to wherever you´re headed on Lake Powell.

 

However, I´m still a bit confused by your itinerary. You say you also want to hit Arches National Park. This is very far out of your way. An itinerary that included the places you mention would probably go - Phoenix, Grand Canyon, Page, Monument Valley, Moab (gateway city to Arches), Capitol Reef N.P., Bryce, Zion, Las Vegas, LA. Heck, it would be easier to drop Arches and throw Death Valley in instead. D.V. isn´t as far out of your way.

 

As Shun mentioned, it´ll be cold and snowy, so expect delays. You´ll need chains or a 4x4 to get around Bryce. Most rentals don´t come with chains, and I doubt the ones out of Phoenix do. It couldn´t hurt to ask. What some people do is go to a large automotive supply store, and buy the chains they need. If you need to use them, then use them. If not, then return the chains to the store before you leave. I´ve done Zion in January, and it´s pretty damn cold. One benefit is that you get to drive your car around rather than take the trams.

 

The hotels you mention are all fine. I usually camp, so I can´t speak to their quality. Goulding´s is the only place to stay at Monument Valley. As Shun wrote, Ruby´s looks very nice. You can probably negotiate a good rate at Zion as not many people visit in winter. On my January trip, I was able to negotiate the price down on the hotel I was staying at.

 

I always reserve my rental cars over the internet, and I´ve always gotten a good price.

 

I´ve got polarizers for my lenses. Are they necessary? No, I don´t think so. They´re extremely useful in certain situations, but I wouldn´t go around with one always on my lenses.

[steve_swinehart]

I might skip Lake Powell (unless you have some real reason to go there), and put Death Valley back on my list. They've had quite a bit of rain in the last 2-3 weeks, and the wild flowers could be blooming in mid to late Feb. Little green things were sprouting all over the ground 2 weeks ago.

 

DV has many more photo opportunities (my opinion) in a smaller area than Lake Powell. There's a moderately sized casino on the NV / CA border (on highway 373 - 7 miles east of Death Valley Junction) with a motel. Convenient to Death Valley, quiet, inexpensive, fairly good restaurant.

 

As far as an SUV - both the south rim of GC + Monument Valley can have big snow as late as mid-April. If you have 4wd - you probably won't need chains. I've used chains once in 30 years - that was on a really muddy road. If you bring chains to use on 4wd - put them on the front tires.

 

I think you'd find an SUV a far better vehicle than a regular car. There are many side roads & dirt tracks that always look inviting - most all are unpaved. Also, if you want to pull over to take a photo, a 4wd with high ground clearance will allow you to pull off the highway and onto the dirt portion of the road shoulder with impunity.

 

Highway 64 to 89 to get to Page, AZ on Lake Powell. From Grand Canyon on the south rim to Page is about 150 miles. Should take 2.5- 3 hours. I have NO IDEA on how Expedia figured this.

[bob___10]

i would skip lake powell also, unless you plan on going to the slot canyons. spend more time in monument valley and its neighbors, valley of the gods and the moki dugway.

 

jealous bob

[raivo_vanags]

Thanks a lot for so many quick answers. I've to run now and will check it all later but on the spot I see a great news that I can go stright (i.e.there's a road!) to Monument valley form GC rather than via Lake Powell (which I don't want to vist just thought there's no other way around). Great!

 

Raivo

[craig_gillette]

I'm also not sure how Expedia figures times and distances. Some of those look close, some don't. I don't know how they differentiate between "Lake Powell" and Page, from a driving standpoint. Or whther they considered Az 98 a route or returned down 89 to Tuba City and then back US 160 to reach Monument Valley.

 

Can't really tell you about rental rates.

 

There is essentially only one way to loop the Grand Canyon from the south rim area. The only stretch of the entire huge loop where you actually drive close to the canyon is from South Rim (the Park village) to Desert View. You go east on the 64 to Cameron, and north on 89. Before you reach Page (which would be in the neighborhood of 2.5 to 3 hours depending on if you want to go leisurely and enjoy the views, etc.) you can take Alternate 89 and pass down through Lee's Ferry, Marble Canyon and across the "north rim" via Jacob's Lake. At Page, taking 89, you would go west to Kanab and could then be rejoined by 89A and then through Zion, etc. Going through Page will at least get you to see one end of Lake Powell, the dam, a bridge, etc. From Zion you would return west and join I-15 to head southwest towards Las Vegas. From Las Vegas the main tourist route is to cross Hoover Dam and head south to Kingman to I-40/Route 66 although you can choose to come down the west side of the Colorado via Laughlin. Along the south side of the canyon (not close), the only routes are I-40 and old Route 66, then you can come north to the south rim from Williams.

 

I would expect that except for the actual 3-day holiday Presidents Day (14-16 Feb.) weekend, room rates shouldn't be bad or should be reasonable, even at the South Rim, etc.

 

A good road atlas will show the main highways. "I-number" is an "Interstate" and is usually a divided 4 or more lane highway, numbered highways, in a shield shape are "US" highways and typically at least two lane paved roads, as are most roads that might be

numbered. You may also find numbered state highways but that will depend on the detail of your atlas/map. I'd suggest planning for road speeds of maybe 50 mph on most roads and 70 mph (locals will drive faster!) on the Interstates to account solely for driving time for planning but then allow some added time for rest stops, viewing, photography along the way, etc.

 

An SUV would not be "needed" unless you are planning to use unpaved roads. Chains can often be rented with the vehicles. Whether you need chains on the car or even an SUV would depend on the actual weather conditions at the time. You should have them this time of year. Snow driving requirements vary with the location and the severity of the conditions at the time. Sometimes only "snow" tires are required, sometimes chains on 2 wheel drives, 4 wheel drives are excepted, sometimes everybody is required to chain up. And if it's snowing too hard, the roads just are closed until the plowing can catch up. (What we have in much of the western, and especially the southwestern US is that the major city/population centers are at relatively low elevations and snow almost never falls in these areas. The vast majority of the drivers aren't used to driving in snow. But major recreation areas, some of the National Parks, etc, are at higher elevations in mountains or you need to pass through the mountains or high plateau areas to reach them. So the locals have snow experience but most of the visitors don't. So the highway departments/Park Service tend to be conservative about imposing chain requirements in high traffic areas to try to keep down the accidents enough that they can at least concentrate on plowing. The storms can be severe enough that they can't keep up with plowing.)

[ShunCheung]

By the way, Raivo, the main typo you had in your original post was some un-closed <PRE>, which caused problems in the follow posts in some older browsers. I had to look around for the problem. For those of you who post in HTML, please double check your HTML.

[kostak]

I would recommend the following in Page: Alstrom Point (http://www.photo.net/photo/1998015), and Wahreap Drainage (http://www.photo.net/photo/2016152) - I believe Fatali's shot (http://www.fatali.com/gallery/nr/Madonna.html) was taken at dawn.

 

To find these locations, stop in the BLM office on the other side of Hwy 89 from Big Water Utah (first town in Utah on 89 west of Page)

 

Though I would recommend a 4x4 for getting to those locations.

[zaitona]

You also left out Joshua Tree National Park. It's right off I-10 on the way from LA to Phoenix and February is a great time to visit. In fact I'm not sure why you want to spend two days in LA and two days driving to and from it. You can drive directly from LV to Phoenix and spend the extra time in DV or in between Page and Bryce in Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument.

 

I'd use something besides expdia for mapping your trip. The only way to get from Page to Bryce in 132Km (82 miles) is by taking dirt roads. It's more like 243Km (152 miles). If you rent an SUV then DEFINITELY take Cottonwood Canyon Road (dirt) and stop at Kodachrome Basin State Park before and around sunset.

 

I did a loop of Southwestern Utah out of LV just before Thanksgiving and it was COLD (but the only snow of significance was at Bryce)

 

Zeyd

[zapped]

Zeyd wrote: "The only way to get from Page to Bryce in 132Km (82 miles) is by taking dirt roads."

 

Rt.89 to Kanab is 74 mi. Another 60 mi north on Rt.89, then east on Rt.12 for 14 mi, then south on Rt.63 for 4 miles to the Visitor's Center. Isn't that paved all the way and also 152 mi?

[dave_smythe]

I definetely wouldnt do cottonwood canyon or any other non paved roads in utah during winter.Last february 2 young tourists got stuck on cottonwood canyon rd. in a surprise snowstorm in their Jeep.One froze to death,the other barely made it.Why do you need to go off pavement?Not prudent in winter.You'll see plenty on the paved roads in all the areas you have mentioned.You should check out how cold it gets in these small utah towns by going to deseretnews.com's weather page.As for monument valley you can find plenty of lodging just 15miles north in mexican hat which has some great landscape.

[zaitona]

[Commenting on the drive from Page to Bryce]

I was commenting on expedia's estimate of the drive being 132km. This is only the case if you take Cottonwood, the paved routed is that described by Zapped and is 152 miles (243km) so almost twice as long as what expedia makes it out to be.

 

As to taking Cottonwood in the winter: you have to know your limitations and make your own assesment of the risk. I took it during an Arctic blast with temperatures in the teens (-10 to -5 C) but I checked the weather forcast and it was dry. Any sign of trouble and I would have bailed. There's ALWAYS a chance of getting caught (it snowed the next day)

 

I had the same decision to make in going to Catherdral valley. It's a calculated risk but it is a risk. If you feel uncomfortable than don't take it. If you take it and get stuck then you only have yourself to blame.

 

You can always get to Kodachrome from Bryce, the road is paved all the way. Grosverner Arch is a bit further on the dirt road.

[ShunCheung]

I would certainly rather error on the safe side. I sure hope that nobody gets into trouble, especially based on suggestions from photo.net. Winter driving in the US South West can be trickly. Bring additional warm clothing, water and food just in case you get stuck.

[raivo_vanags]

 

 

<p>Shun wrote:

<i>Hiking down and then up the Grand Canyon in a day is a challenge. I have done that once in 1975 when my entire highschool graduating class did it together. That was in May and it was hot. Our feet were hurting for several days afterwards. I would spend 2, 3 days shooting a GC. </i></p>

 

<p>Well I will look what the weather will be alike. If it�s icy and snow � I�ll pass it. If it�s dry � I guess I might do it. My colleague did the trip in the very heat in May and managed to do this in 2h down and 4h up... He�s about the same fitness as me. </p>

 

<p>I have extended my stay @GC by a night. What�s your approach to photographing sunsets/rises there � do you settle in one point and record the light changes or do you people travel between different points there? What are your favorite spots for shooting there? </p>

 

<p>Louie Escober wrote:

 

<i>My responses will necessarily be short as I am currently in Argentina visiting (and shooting) Los Glaciares and will shortly be heading to Chile to trek the Torres del Paine. So, I´m kinda busy right now. </i> </p>

 

<p>Hope you�re having a good time there! </p>

<p><i>In your itinerary, you mention a stop at Lake Powell. Could you be more specific? Lake Powell is a big lake, and I don´t see how expedia can give you accurate distances without specifying at least a city. </i></p>

<p>I�ve got a map and cleared a few thing... now I know one can�t relay on Expedia much:( </p>

<p><i>However, I´m still a bit confused by your itinerary. You say you also want to hit Arches National Park. This is very far out of your way.</i></p>

<p>I have taken the Arches out :( maybe next time(hopefully!). </p>

<p><i>An itinerary that included the places you mention would probably go - Phoenix, Grand Canyon, Page, Monument Valley, Moab (gateway city to Arches), Capitol Reef N.P., Bryce, Zion, Las Vegas, LA. Heck, it would be easier to drop Arches and throw Death Valley in instead. D.V. isn´t as far out of your way.</i></p>

<p>Not sure if I can manage Capitol Reef then either but will consider Death Valley... It still needs a day or two right? </p>

<p><i>You´ll need chains or a 4x4 to get around Bryce. </i> Really? Oh..I thought (based on some suggestions elswhere that I might skip the SUv and go with compact... </p>

<p>I�ve got some answers from car rentals: </p>

<p><i>-Avis does not offer the chains with their vehicles, the vehicles do come with all weather mud and snow tires. </p>

<p>-Budget doesn't have chains to rent nor do they allow chains to be

installed on their vehicles.</i></p>

 

<p>Steve wrote:

<i>I might skip Lake Powell (unless you have some real reason to go there), and put Death Valley back on my list.</i></p>

 

<p>Done (no reason to go specifically to Lake Powell area). </p>

 

<p>Bob: </p>

<p><i>spend more time in monument valley and its neighbors, valley of the gods and the moki dugway. </i></p>

<p>Well I�ll look at that. Is it accessible on February? given this: </p>

<p><i>The breathtaking ride up or down the Moki Dugway is an experience not soon forgotten. Stunning views open from the Dugway as it winds its way 1,200 feet from Cedar Mesa to the Valley of the Gods. The Dugway�a three-mile graded and graveled section of Utah Highway 261�descends a steep 11% grade from the mesa top to the valley floor. </i>

http://www.stehno.com/frankp/sagemesa/destinations/utah/utpoints/mokidugway.htm </p>

 

<p>Craig:

<i>"I-number" is an "Interstate" and is usually a divided 4 or more lane highway, numbered highways, in a shield shape are "US" highways and typically at least two lane paved roads, as are most roads that might be numbered. You may also find numbered state highways but that will depend on the detail of your atlas/map.</i></p>

<p>Thanks for pointing this out! </p>

<p><i>I'd suggest planning for road speeds of maybe 50 mph on most roads and 70 mph (locals will drive faster!) on the Interstates to account solely for driving time for planning but then allow some added time for rest stops, viewing, photography along the way, etc. </i></p>

<p>btw.do you have any tips on police work in those 4 different states I�m planning to go? Are they strict on exceeding speeds, etc.? Thanks</p>

<p><i>By the way, Raivo, the main typo you had in your original post was some un-closed PRE, which caused problems in the follow posts in some older browsers</i></p>

<p>Sorry for than Shun, I didn�t know about this as everything looked fine on my browser. </p>

<p>Kosta � thanks for the ideas</p>

<p>Zeyd wrote:

<i>You also left out Joshua Tree National Park. It's right off I-10 on the way from LA to Phoenix and February is a great time to visit.</i></p>

<p>Thanks, I just don�t know if I can manage it�</p>

<p>Useful discussion on Cottonwood Canyon Road. </p>

<p>hmm�? I guess I should err on the side of caution� Would it be my country I guess I would take the chances�but if it�s dry? well I guess I should keep a note just in case..or shouldn�t I? </p>

<p>Thanks a lot for your answers. I have booked some hotels and some will be left unbooked for flexibility. </p>

<p>I�ll post my itinerary plan soon here so you can add (hopefully) any other comments and suggestions. </p>

<p>One more thing for me to decide is to SUV or not to SUV�?</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for now. </p>

<p>Best, </p>

Raivo

 

[raivo_vanags]

 

 

<p>Shun wrote:

<i>Hiking down and then up the Grand Canyon in a day is a challenge. I have done that once in 1975 when my entire highschool graduating class did it together. That was in May and it was hot. Our feet were hurting for several days afterwards. I would spend 2, 3 days shooting a GC. </i></p>

 

<p>Well I will look what the weather will be alike. If it�s icy and snow � I�ll pass it. If it�s dry � I guess I might do it. My colleague did the trip in the very heat in May and managed to do this in 2h down and 4h up... He�s about the same fitness as me. </p>

 

<p>I have extended my stay @GC by a night. What�s your approach to photographing sunsets/rises there � do you settle in one point and record the light changes or do you people travel between different points there? What are your favorite spots for shooting there? </p>

 

<p>Louie Escober wrote:

 

<i>My responses will necessarily be short as I am currently in Argentina visiting (and shooting) Los Glaciares and will shortly be heading to Chile to trek the Torres del Paine. So, I´m kinda busy right now. </i> </p>

 

<p>Hope you�re having a good time there! </p>

<p><i>In your itinerary, you mention a stop at Lake Powell. Could you be more specific? Lake Powell is a big lake, and I don´t see how expedia can give you accurate distances without specifying at least a city. </i></p>

<p>I�ve got a map and cleared a few thing... now I know one can�t relay on Expedia much:( </p>

<p><i>However, I´m still a bit confused by your itinerary. You say you also want to hit Arches National Park. This is very far out of your way.</i></p>

<p>I have taken the Arches out :( maybe next time(hopefully!). </p>

<p><i>An itinerary that included the places you mention would probably go - Phoenix, Grand Canyon, Page, Monument Valley, Moab (gateway city to Arches), Capitol Reef N.P., Bryce, Zion, Las Vegas, LA. Heck, it would be easier to drop Arches and throw Death Valley in instead. D.V. isn´t as far out of your way.</i></p>

<p>Not sure if I can manage Capitol Reef then either but will consider Death Valley... It still needs a day or two right? </p>

<p><i>You´ll need chains or a 4x4 to get around Bryce. </i> Really? Oh..I thought (based on some suggestions elswhere that I might skip the SUv and go with compact... </p>

<p>I�ve got some answers from car rentals: </p>

<p><i>-Avis does not offer the chains with their vehicles, the vehicles do come with all weather mud and snow tires. </p>

<p>-Budget doesn't have chains to rent nor do they allow chains to be

installed on their vehicles.</i></p>

 

<p>Steve wrote:

<i>I might skip Lake Powell (unless you have some real reason to go there), and put Death Valley back on my list.</i></p>

 

<p>Done (no reason to go specifically to Lake Powell area). </p>

 

<p>Bob: </p>

<p><i>spend more time in monument valley and its neighbors, valley of the gods and the moki dugway. </i></p>

<p>Well I�ll look at that. Is it accessible on February? given this: </p>

<p><i>The breathtaking ride up or down the Moki Dugway is an experience not soon forgotten. Stunning views open from the Dugway as it winds its way 1,200 feet from Cedar Mesa to the Valley of the Gods. The Dugway�a three-mile graded and graveled section of Utah Highway 261�descends a steep 11% grade from the mesa top to the valley floor. </i>

http://www.stehno.com/frankp/sagemesa/destinations/utah/utpoints/mokidugway.htm </p>

 

<p>Craig:

<i>"I-number" is an "Interstate" and is usually a divided 4 or more lane highway, numbered highways, in a shield shape are "US" highways and typically at least two lane paved roads, as are most roads that might be numbered. You may also find numbered state highways but that will depend on the detail of your atlas/map.</i></p>

<p>Thanks for pointing this out! </p>

<p><i>I'd suggest planning for road speeds of maybe 50 mph on most roads and 70 mph (locals will drive faster!) on the Interstates to account solely for driving time for planning but then allow some added time for rest stops, viewing, photography along the way, etc. </i></p>

<p>btw.do you have any tips on police work in those 4 different states I�m planning to go? Are they strict on exceeding speeds, etc.? Thanks</p>

<p><i>By the way, Raivo, the main typo you had in your original post was some un-closed PRE, which caused problems in the follow posts in some older browsers</i></p>

<p>Sorry for than Shun, I didn�t know about this as everything looked fine on my browser. </p>

<p>Kosta � thanks for the ideas</p>

<p>Zeyd wrote:

<i>You also left out Joshua Tree National Park. It's right off I-10 on the way from LA to Phoenix and February is a great time to visit.</i></p>

<p>Thanks, I just don�t know if I can manage it�</p>

<p>Useful discussion on Cottonwood Canyon Road. </p>

<p>hmm�? I guess I should err on the side of caution� Would it be my country I guess I would take the chances�but if it�s dry? well I guess I should keep a note just in case..or shouldn�t I? </p>

<p>Thanks a lot for your answers. I have booked some hotels and some will be left unbooked for flexibility. </p>

<p>I�ll post my itinerary plan soon here so you can add (hopefully) any other comments and suggestions. </p>

<p>One more thing for me to decide is to SUV or not to SUV�?</p>

<p>Thanks a lot for now. </p>

<p>Best, </p>

Raivo

 

[dave_smythe]

COTTONWOOD canyon rd. is 46miles of long unpaved road.There is no town,homes in between.There is nothing but desolate pasture land sometimes pretty but not outstanding.If you get stuck out there in snow you will die.Bryce canyon area etc often reach -40 deg in winter.You can check out lake powell when taking hiway 89 thru big water.Here is something you might wanna do if you want to see CAp Reef.From valley of gods,goosenecks and mexican hat and MV-go up to hiway 95 and take that north thru lake powell.There is incredible scenery just as you get to fry canyon and approach the lake and cross the bridge.Then when you arrive in hanksville you could proceed to cap reef-the drive contains mind blowing scenery.I would seriously not spend more than a day in GC if at all.GC is way overrated in my book and is a massive detour to any trip.you could easily do arches and canyonlands if u chucked GC.There are way more deserving places that are much more photogenic and travel friendly.

[craig_gillette]

Those were speeds I'd use with a map to figure raw travel times. Many of the mapping programs or guide books are a little more conservative, I think the Auto Club, for example, figures at less than speed limit, mine were right about at what you might expect as a speed limit.

 

As to enforcement? I tend to not go much over the speed limits and I'd be real cautious around populated areas and small towns. Going with the flow of traffic should be fine. Consider that much of the traffic is local and knows the roads. Much of it is open grazing land and especially around dusk and later deer begin to wander around. I don't drive like a bat out of hel* anyways, and much of this area is pretty scenic so I allow some time to rest, walk around, take it all in, etc.

[zaitona]

SUV vs. compact: an SUV will cost you twice as much. I would opt for something with more power than a compact (the $ difference is usually pretty small). You decision will depend on the weather forcast and the amount of existing snow on the various roads.

 

Joshua Tree: If you are still still going down to LA and then to Phoenix, you can take a quick detour through the park. Of course you won't be there at best light but it's worth the extra couple of hours.

 

Zeyd

[raivo_vanags]

<p>So here's my updated <b>Plan A</b> (with questions at the end): </p>

<i><p>13.Feb- flying-in Phoenix/got to Sedona (194km.Est: 2H 10m), too late for evening photography, stay in Kokopelli Inn</p>

<p>14.Feb- photo: sunrise@Sedona/ going to Grand Canyon (243km.Est: 5H 21m), photo: sunset@GC/ stay in Yavapai Lodge </p>

<p>15.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ if the weather allows South Kaibab down, Bright Angel up, photo: sunset@GC/ </p>

<p>16.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ possibly go on a tour with <a href="www.grandcanyonairlines.com">Grand Canyon airlines</a> , photo: sunset@GC/ </p>

<p>17.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ via Desert view (Hhwy64) to Monument Valley (173miles or 277km; 4h of drive?)/ afternoon driving on MV routes?/ stay in Gouldings lodge (hopefully)/ photo: sunset@Monument Valley/</p>

<p>18.Feb- photo: sunrise@Monument Valley (navajo guide?)/ go to Antelope Canyon, go to Horseshoe Bend/ photo: sunset@??? stay in Page? Monument Valley to Page: total of 132miles or 211km. </p>

<p>19.Feb- photo: sunrise@???/ got to Bryce/ photo: sunset@Bryce/ Page to Bruce Canyon: Total of 143miles or 230km. </p>

<p>20.Feb- photo: sunrise@Bryce/ photo: sunset@Zion </p>

<p>21.Feb- photo: sunrise@Zion/ photo: sunset@Zion </p>

<p>22.Feb- photo: sunrise@Zion/ Zion to Death Valley (total of 300m or 480km)/ stay in Furnace Creek Ranch or Stovepipe Wells Village / photo: sunset@Death Valley</p>

<p>23.Feb- photo: sunrise@Death Valley/ arrive Lvegas (total of 140miles or 225km), photo: sunset@LV (maybe) & nightly Vegas </p>

<p>24.Feb-from LV to LA (Total of 275miles or 440km, approximate driving ~4h20min) </p>

<p>25.Feb- LA </p>

<p>26.Feb- LA </p>

<p>27.Feb-go from LA to Phoenix: (600km.Est: 5H 56m) </p></i>

<p><u>Questions:</u> </p>

 

<p>Q1: Should decide on Monument Valley days � is one sunset/sunrise ok or do I need to stay a day more? Is my schedule too tight for MV? </p>

 

<p>Q2: Seems that generally mid afternoon has a better light in wintertime than morning part in Monument Valley. I�m looking at the map in J.K.Lange�s �the Grand Canyon & Northern Arizona� p.43 and there are trails in two colors - brown and in green � which ones are accessible without Navajo guides and which are not (or they all are)? (e.g.can I access teardrop arch without a guide?) </p>

 

<p>Q3: Can I manage the road to Bryce on the same day when leaving Monument Valley, going to Antelopes and Horseshoe bend or it�s better to stay a night over in Page? </p>

 

<p>Q4: If I stay in Page � what are the shooting opportunities at sunset and sunrise there then? </p>

 

<p>Q5:Are there a lot of possibilities in Bryce canyon on February? Or is it too cold to hike, etc.? As I understand sunset isn�t too good there just a time to spot the best places for the sunrise? </p>

 

<p>Q6: As I understand then Antelope Canyon light in February will be bad for any shooting so I should just to visit it for a tourist view, right? Anyway I should be in Upper Canyon around 11.00-13.00? </p>

 

<p>Q7: Death Valley lodging � two possibilities: Furnace Creek Ranch or Stovepipe Wells Village. Any advice experience here? Stovepipe is 26miles further on north. What are the main attractions (the only one I�ve heard is Zabriskie point) in DV and how do you go around there? How much time will it take to 'have a look around'?</p>

 

<p>Q8 : Where�s the best spot for LA sunset (the whole city in a frame) picture? Any good/worth sunrise spots? </p>

 

<p>As I'm quite confused with my tip from Monument Valley, Antelope Canyon visit and activities on bryce and Zion, I have made a possible plan for those days (Plan B). Bear in mind that I can't switch LV and LA days :( </p>

 

<p><b>Plan B:</b> </p>

<i><p>17.Feb- photo: sunrise@GC/ via Desert view (Hhwy64) to Monument Valley (total of 240miles or 385km) via Bitter Springs � see Horseshoe Bend, Antelope canyons/ afternoon driving on MV routes if there�s a time/ stay in Gouldings lodge (hopefully)/ photo: sunset@Monument Valley/</p>

<p>18.Feb- photo: sunrise@Monument Valley (navajo guide?)/ surrounding Mexican Hat, something else during the day time, Monument Valley road in the afternoon/ photo: sunset@Monument Valley</p>

<p>19.Feb- photo: sunrise@ Monument Valley / go to Capitol Reef (total of 191miles or 306km)/photo sunset@Capitol Reef. </p>

<p>20.Feb- photo: sunrise@Capitol Reef/ explore Capitol Reef go to Bryce (Fruita (Capitol Reef) to Bryce Canyon: Total of 121miles or 194km.)/ photo: sunset@Bryce </p>

<p>21.Feb- photo: sunrise@Bryce/ got to Zion (Total of 87miles or 140km)/ photo: sunset@Zion/</p>

<p>22.Feb- photo: sunrise@Zion/ Zion to Death Valley (total of 300m or 480km)/ stay in Furnace Creek Ranch or Stovepipe Wells Village / photo: sunset@Death Valley</p></i>

<p>23.Feb- photo: sunrise@Death Valley/ arrive Lvegas (total of 140miles or 225km), photo: sunset@LV (maybe) & nightly Vegas </p></pre>

<p>With this plan I don't let enough staying in any of places, right? </p>

<p><u>Questions remaining:</u> </p>

<p>Q9: Is there enough to see in Zion n February to sty a full day more? </p>

<p>Q10: Should I reduce my stay in Monument Valley? </p>

<p>Q11: Will full size car be ok for those access points (to and inside parks?)? </p>

<p>Will be very grateful of your thoughts! </p>

<p>Best, </p>

Raivo

 

 

 

 

[ShunCheung]

When I travel, I never have such a detailed itinerary in advance. The general suggestion for the Western US is that visit fewer places and spend a little more time at each place. Otherwise, you will be spending most of your time driving rather than photographing. You will also lose days to poor weather and/or poor shooting conditions. In my own trip to Bryce, we were going to stay for one night. It turned out that the day we got there it was very cloudy; I shot at most a few frames that entire day. The next day we had great weather and I shot 5, 6 rolls of film and decided to stay an extra night.

 

In other words, be flexable with your itinerary and don't overplan your schedule.

[craig_gillette]

I'd like to give you some thoughts on a grand L.A. vista for sunset but have never really tried that. Unfortunately, what I'd suggest as the most convenient sites off the top of my head aren't well suited for getting the skyline in the sunset. The Dodger Stadium parking lot looks essentially south to downtown. The Griffith Park Planetarium is under renovation so I don't believe there is particularly good access and it's not clear from the sites I checked if the Mount Hollywood trail is open after sunset at this time. It would look back to the southeast but may offer some views to the west/southwest that would pick up Beverly Hills, Century City, etc. There are also areas along Mulholland Highway and also a Japanese restaurant (Yamashiro - check their web site for current parking, etc., details) over Hollywood that would offer similar views.

 

Unfortunately the higher ground in East Los Angeles/Boyle Heights that might give a good view to downtown in the sunset is a less than desirable neighborhood and I wouldn't recommend it to you. If the weather is good, the view from Mulholland Highway is spectacular at night. Mount Wilson is higher and and an even grander view but isn't particularly convenient.

 

The Seal Beach Pier gives a view to the west that picks up Palos Verdes and the harbor area, the bluffs over Long Beach can allow you to look back towards the Queen Mary, the harbor, maybe Catalina Island. It's not quite the right time of year to catch the sunset over Catalina from Huntington Beach, but somebody from the beach area may be able to tell if you can catch it from their locations.