Prime Lenses and Digital

[yian nyc]

Hi

 

I was just wondering what various options are available for someone like me

who likes shooting digital and likes shooting primes (especially 28mm)

 

In (roughly) descending order (of price? size? complexity?)

 

1. LF and MF with digital backs.

 

2. dSLRs ranging from fullframe to 1.6 crop.

 

3. somewhere in between here is the new Rd-1 and mythical M-digital

 

4. consumer cameras such as Casio EX-S3.

 

ok, HERE's the QUESTION. Are there any fixed-lens (prime) PROSUMER

cameras that fit in category #3 above, smaller in physical size and weight than

a drebel (with fixed 20mm lens) and having a larger sensor than the miniscule

one on the Casio?

 

In film, this would be equivalent to an Olympus stylus epic, ricoh gr-1, etc.

camera that could fit into your shirt pocket, and still take amazing photos.

[Greg M]

No.....

 

The best of both worlds would be for Konica Minolta to re-introduce the Hexar AF with the fixed 35mm f2 lens with a 1.5/1.6 crop sensor like many current DSLR's have. Of course the lens would be more on the order of 24mm f2 to stay in that semi-wide angle of view the Hexar had. If they could come up with a camera like that in the $900 (US) range or so, I'd find a way to afford it.

[dean_g]

Because the manufacturers seem to see the compact camera as strictly a consumer item, and see the consumer wanting zoom lenses, I doubt we'll be seeing anything like a high quality fixed lens compact digital anytime soon. The marketing think wants to appeal to the widest number of people and that spells ZOOM. However Ricoh has recently released the Ricoh Caplio GX which is a 5 meg digital similar to their caplio compact cameras, but upgraded with good manual capabilities (and accessible), and a new 9 element 7 group lens covering 28mm-85mm. I bought one because it is the closest thing to what you are describing, and one nice thing about it is that despite havinging a zoom lens, it can be set to what they call "step zoom" and then it offers 4 dicreet focal lengths equivalent to 28, 35, 50, and 85mm in 35mm terms. That allows me to think in terms of specific focal lengths, and as it defaults to 28mm, that's generally what I use. The lens is quite sharp, but I suppose it's not quite up to the GR1 lens, and has some noticeable barrel distortion when wide. That's easily corrected though and for me it fills the bill, and I'm getting great results with it. Like a GR1 it has a "snap" focus mode (and infinity) for zone focus, and exposure can be fixed manually using aperture and shutter settings that are retained upon power up. With the formed right hand grip it is not quite shirt pocket sized (I have had it in my shirt pocket though) but it fits easily in pants or coat and is only about 200gr weight. Ricoh has put considerable development into eliminating appreciable shutter lag and this camera is incredibly fast, especially when zone focused and preset for exposure where there is no perceptible shutter lag. Something a T4, or Epic certainly can't boast of. For my money this is the best compact digital available. Ricoh is aiming it at the enthusiast photographer more so than the casual consumer, for who they've provided their other compacts. Kudos to Ricoh for taking a stab at it, and I don't doubt future versions will include some improvements. I guess I'd say this camera is to the the Ricoh caplio RX and their other digitals, what the GR1 was to the R1 (prego micron). Alas it hasn't got a prime lens, but it's a darn good zoom and not over-ambitious at 28-85mm, and the step setting at least allows some conceptual equivalency to having 4 primes.

[lotsawa]

I've read about rumors that Epson wants to build a digital viewfinder R-D1 that works with Leica-M and -L lenses. A short (german) arcicle is <a href="http://www.falkemedia.com/dcm/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=606&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0">here</a>. There are no further specifications, though (sensor size etc). Maybe just rumors ...

[ronald_smith2]

That Caplio GX looks like a terrific digicam. Any idea about the cost? It's pretty classy-looking.

[._._z]

Yian, probably the most affordable, high-quality option today is a D_Rebel and a 17/3.5

prime lens. At slightly lower image quality (smaller pixels, more potential for purple

fringing) would be something like the iwdeangle Olympus 5060 or 8080, but they have

zoom lenses, not primes.

 

That Casio has a slow (f/4.5 or so) 35mm-equivalent lens. The options I list above give

you the 28mm equivalent you are looking for, and are faster lenses too.

[david_haynes]

While not a prime, the Vario-Summicron (equivalent 28-90 in 35mm terms) on my

Leica D2 will resolve much more than the sensor can record, which is plenty good for

a full page magazine reproduction.

 

And this camera, while admittedly expensive, produces the best straight-from-the-

camera images I have seen from ANY digital camera... reminiscent of my favorite film

combo of Summicrons and Kodachrome.

 

I've had mine since April and it's my favorite digital camera. I also own and shoot

professionally every day with 2 DSLRs and full compliment of 15 prime and zoom

lenses (15mm fish - 400mm) and accessories.

 

But the Leica is alway with me... on the front seat of the car when I'm driving or slung

over one shoulder when I'm out and about. If you can afford it (or its slightly less

expensive twin - the Panosonic LC1) you will not regret it.

[dean_g]

The Ricoh Caplio GX cost me about $535.00 US with shipping from Hong Kong, via an ebay vendor. Then I spent another $60.00 on a 256mb simpleTech ProX SD card. The problem is that if you are in North America you have to do a gray market purchase. I went for it anyway after some initial reluctance and I'm quite happy with the camera, it's excellent IMO. Sorry if this is off topic Yian, just thought I should respond to the question about the Caplio GX.

[francois_gauthier]

It is true that consumers want digital zoom cameras but as more are being sold, i hope there will soon be an opening for the 'niche' we want.

 

The Yashica T4 sold despite many zoom models for the same price because the trade better lens for zoom interested some of us. In the huge compact film models of that era, there was a place for a few of these.

 

The first to try a similar approach in digital should have some success if not perceive as overprice.

[steve_chan5]

Well, you could see if the makers of the stylus epic had a digital version: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Olympus/oly_d395.asp

 

The problem is that it's sensor is smaller than the Casio's 1/1.8" sensor: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Casio/casio_exs3.asp

 

While a 1/1.8" sensor isn't big, it is the same sensor used on the relatively high end prosumers like the Olympus C-5050, C-5050 and Canon G5 and S60.

 

The only larger sensors on prosumers are the 2/3" sensors on the 8MP digicams, the Sony F-XXX and Olympus E-X0 cameras. Next step up would be to pick up an Olympus E1 and stick a prime on it.

 

While the Ricoh GX sounds like it is good for speed and handling, the sample photos I've seen have been lackluster. It uses the same 1/1.8" sensor, but with 5MP. The Casio may be usable up to a higher ISO due to the lower pixel count.

[godfrey]

If you want the image quality of a large sensor camera today, buy a Canon 10D or 300D

and stick a 17mm lens on it for the "very wide" field of view your 28mm lens presents. It

will be bulkier than the mythical RD1 and Leica M Digital but not obnoxiously so. (I carry a

10D with, usually, either a 28/1.8 or a 50/1.4 fitted: wonderful combination and very

reasonable size/weight for me.)

 

If you want excellent image quality in a 4Mpixel small sensor camera that is light and

modestly sized, take a look at the Panasonic FZ10. 35-420 equivalent field of view with

image stabilization, very light, very handy, excellent controls.

 

If you'd rather the wider view of the 28mm lens, the Olympus C8080 is probably the one

to get. It's more expensive and is 8Mpixel.

 

Godfrey

[dean_g]

The Ricoh GX, and most Ricoh digitals I'm familiar with use rather conservative color.. fairly "neutral" and unsaturated, but accurate. The GX is best used as one would use a 10D.. ie keep the sharpening low, along with it's normal low color saturation, underexpose a bit to avoid blowing out highlights, then adjust levels etc in PS. The GX is not the camera of choice if you want it all done for you, I agree there are better choices for that, but it delivers exceptional image quality when used as above, IMO. I've got a few sample images here:

 

http://www.pbase.com/runegitane/capio_gx_pictures

[ronald_smith2]

Are those taken with the newest Capilo GX model I mentioned? Nice work.

[dean_g]

Ronald,

 

Thanks. Yes, that's the Ricoh Caplio GX camera you are referring to, I've been using it for about 3 weeks now. It works well for my purposes. I really enjoy using it.

[steve_chan5]

<i>The GX is best used as one would use a 10D.. </i>

<p>This sort of begs the question, if you're going to do so much in post, are the Ricoh pictures really better than what other cameras would produce with the same processing?

<p>I'm not merely being argumentative, its an honest question. The Casio QV-R51 goes for about $200 these days, and is very fast handling as well - with enough post processing, what would I see in the Ricoh image that I wouldn't see in a competitor's pictures? My Casio QV-R40 (out of production, but it was selling for $50 at one point) can go from off to picture taken in about a second, and the 4MP images it produces seem fine except for the colors and narrow dynamic range.

[dean_g]

Steve, I'm not making any claims that the Ricoh produces 'better' images than any other camera, just that it produces excellent quality images in it's own right IMO. There are no doubt other good handling smaller cameras available, and perhaps at lower cost, but for me, the Caplio GX is just about perfect(not completely) and has excellent build quality with its cast aluminum body, great lens, and extremely low shutter lag. I also like the small size and form factor of the body plus the ability to quickly access aperture and shutter speed functions while viewing the exposure histogram. I think it is particularly well thought out as a handy tool for photographs, and most of the criticism of it's image quality is based on whether its straight from camera pictures are going to wow the casual snapshooter. They won't, but they possess the detailed information I require to get the kind of prints that I like. And I relate that to some of the criticism I've heard regarding the 10D.."soft" images etc. Certain assumptions are made about how the camera will be used, and in the case of the 10D, it is assumed that most professional and enthusiast photographers will do their own post processing rather than let the camera do it. I'm just saying I think the Caplio GX is a great camera, not that it's the best camera for everyone. For me, it might be though. Agreed, thoughtful post processing can improve the output of most of the cameras available, but that's why my attention these days is more and more on the handling qualities of the device and whether I enjoy using it. An extreme example of a camera designed around "pro" assumptions is the Sigma SD10 which has no in camera processing and shoots only RAW format. With a camera like that it's awfully hard to judge it relative to things like saturation, white balance, etc, or whether the images are lackluster because the camera and lens just capture the information, the photographer must then "develop" it. That's one failing of the GX actually, that they don't include a RAW format, and I'd strongly considered the Canon S60 because it does. Hopefully Ricoh will continue to develop the GX concept, it's not 100% there yet, but as I say, it works great for me.

[travis1]

the ricoh gx is imo , a gem.<div></div>

[yian nyc]

I got the RD-1 Ricoh about 4 months ago. It never leaves my side.