Epson Clogging (r800, 2200) and Canon Fading (i960, i9900)

[kyle_joyce]

I need to print photos on site for little league games. Mostly 4x6,

8x10's and wallets.

I have read alot about canon's prints fading and epson printers

clogging.

 

I'm looking at the i960 and i9900 and the r800 and the 2200.

 

Do both the canon's fade? at the same rate? and how bad? I don't

want to come back to the little league a year later and have people

complaining about faded pictures.

 

The r800 seems pretty new, how does it perform compared to the 2200?

Can i avoid cloggin if i print every 3 days or so? If it does clog

how long does it take to get it fixed?

 

Also how long will it take for prints to dry?

 

Any opinions or suggestions are welcome.

 

Thanks

[david_lau3]

Yes you can minimise (not eliminate) clogging in Epson if you print something every 2-3 days. I am doing this but if I go out for a long holiday which stops me from doing so, I got clogging again after returning. It is especially frustrating when you want to print out some photos right after you return.

 

You can fix it easily, just do one or more rounds of cleaning follows by test printing as instructed by Epson. The REAL problem is that it uses up a lot of ink in each cleaning cycle. You know printer ink is as expensive as gold.

 

This clogging problem never happen to my previous HP printer. If I have the chance to buy another printer, I will avoid Epson until they solved this problem.

[ray]

you have hardly anything to worry about if you print couple of times a week. cleanning a

clog is just a matter of running a head clean cycle (through the software). you waste 5

minutes, 1 sheet of paper and some (admittedly expensive) ink.

 

Off course, you can get around the expensive ink by using ink carts w/ continuous flow

systems or a larger printer (4000, etc.) which has considerably cheaper inks because of the

larger cart capacity.

[Greg M]

I have the i960 & have been using it since November. Great colors, especially when used with the Photo Pro paper, which is all I ever buy now. Prints are pretty dry after 5-6 hours, but I try to let them sit out in the air for 12 just to be sure.

 

Who knows how long they will last. "Experts" say around 25 or so years. Until some prints have been around that long no one really knows though. I can tell you I have traditional prints from the 1970's that look like hell today, and they were not exposed to heat, humity, acid paper, etc, etc, so the traditional process is no guarantee of longevity.

[mark_herring]

Epson and Canon can both have clogging--you might hear more about Epson clogging because there are more Epson printers.

 

Contrary to some folklore, clogging is a manageable issue.

 

Dye fades, pigment is more permanent. Canon and HP are dye, as are some Epsons.

 

I have read that Epson is moving toward pigment only---further, that the piezo technology may be better suited to pigment than the heat technology in the canon and HP. (Is this why 3rd party pigment in for Canon has been slow to appear?)

 

The intermediate solution is the various "long-life" papers designed fo dye---but many people dont like the look of these.

[kyle_joyce]

it takes 5 hours for the ink to dry? How long till you are able to handle a photo? do pigment or dyes take longer?

 

This is a big concern because i will want to sell them right after printing? I have had some suggest dye-sub but i have heard the quality isn't as good

 

thanks

 

kyle

[william_yu]

Kyle:

 

If you are selling these prints to other people, I would worry more about fading than clogging. I have read about clogging on Epson printers, but mostly on the Epson dye base printers. The pigment ink based printers are easier to clean and less prone to clogging. I have had the 2200 for a while, and even though I do not print every week, I have not experienced any clogging problem. USE OEM EPSON INKS! I recently bought a R800 as well, very sharp, with finer details than the 2200, excellent for prints up to 8x10. Besides higher resolution, the R800 has a clear coat cartridge, which can reduce the bronzing on the premium glossy paper. But Pictorico High Gloss White Film is the best glossy paper choice for the 2200 and R800.

[beauh44]

Kyle, It really doesn't take 5 hours for an Epson 2200 print to dry. In fact, you can touch it just fine right out of the printer. What is a small issue is the solvents Epson uses in which to suspend their pigments. These solvents evaporate over time, so if you were to take a print right out of the printer and put it under glass, you might notice that the glass fogs up a bit. This is easily remedied by setting a sheet of plain paper over the print to act as a wick to draw out these solvents for a few hours or even overnight. I recently purchased an HP 7960 and the prints look much better 24 hours or so later, so this isn't just a pigment ink issue. Best wishes . . .

[kyle_joyce]

I think i am leaning toward the r800 can you get a continual inking system with this printer?

 

also with the 2200 and r800 how much do you estimate a 8x10 costs?

 

thanks

[jack paradise]

Kyle,

 

If your income depends on print sales, then do what the prints house do: get yourself two printers of the same model. Dont get stranded with just one printer that stops working when you need it the most especially when you're working events and sales are lost because of non-working equipment.

 

Ever see a professional photographer do a marriage or other important social event with just one camera ?

[carl smith]

The mention of problems with pigments in Canon and HP printers is true from what I remember. Canon (and HP too somehow I believe) heats the area behind the nozzle until the water evaporates and pushes the ink out through the nozzle. This works with the small dye particles but pigment particles are generally too big and will clog it. So Epson uses piezo to go around the problem.

 

As far as Canon fading, I've printed on their photo paper (Prefer to use Epsons) and it's faded considerably out in the open in a room with fluorescent lighting over the past 1.5 years. However I have Canon prints on Epson SemiGloss paper behind glass that haven't faded a bit over more than 1.5 years, and they're not exactly protected from UV either, so I suspect it's ozone/other components in the air that are causing the most trouble.

 

The blacks in the framed prints are still deep and black and the colors haven't shifted. The unprotected print in the department lounge has shifted to magenta a bit if I remember correctly, in addition to fading considerably.

[brainbubba_motornapkins]

I live in a very damp climate, and I use dye-based inks in an Epson 1270. I have never had a serious ink clog even after a couple of months between printing sessions. I refill my oem cartridges (using MIS inks) about 3 or 4 times, then buy a new epson cartridge. Running the epson oem inks through the heads every so often seems to clear up any clogging problems that occasionally appear in refilled cartridges, which I suspect are due to air bubbles rather than ink clogs per se.

[mark_herring]

In re clogging vs air.....

 

I, too, am a refiller. 90% of what appear to be clogs are really air. The cure is to try ONE clean cycle. If that make no real difference or makes it WORSE, then simply shut off an wait till morning. Almost always works.

[drew_chandler]

Don't be fooled by Epson by any means... there's a reason there's a class action suite in Texas over misleading ink consumption.

 

http://www.rechargermag.com/news.asp?id=200311501

 

Additionally, Consumer Reports, in April, actually cited 17%-38% of the ink was left in Epson cartridges when the IntelliEdge chip shut them off. Talk about ink waste. That's not acceptable for anyone using their printer to make money.

 

Kyle... Canon photos are dry the minute they print, just like the Epson. The dye-based ink contains some alcohol for bonding purposes and the paper is available to touch once the ink hits it. HOWEVER... the ink within the paper isn't all the way dry yet and there is a period of time for the color to adjust. Nothing major, just the way it works. At least with Canon, you'll yield more cost efficient prints, most cost efficient ink usage, and instant results. Obviously, time is money, and you can't have a customer waiting for 10 minutes on a 8?x10 from an Epson.

 

If you can solve the lightfast problem, which it looks like on one of the above posts /|\ that you can, go with the Canon. Not only will you enjoy the cost of ownership but your customers will enjoy the convenience of seeing instant, stunning results for their money. (37 seconds on the i960 and PC Magazine just rated 30 second 4x6's on the i9900.)

 

Finally, if you're using a PictBirdge camera and desire direct-connect abilities, a Canon is the natural choice.

[dave_cheng1]

"that the piezo technology may be better suited to pigment than the heat technology in the canon and HP. (Is this why 3rd party pigment in for Canon has been slow to appear?)"

 

This is not true. In fact electrical-piezo based printers, such as

Epson, are more likely to clog because electrical-piezo force is

much weaker than thermo-bubblejet force in ejectiing ink droplets.

Ink solid is more likely to accumulate in the piezo printhead and

cause a clog.

 

Canon BCI-3eBK cartridge contains pigmented black ink. It is used

for black text printing. Seldom heard of a clog because of this

cartridge on Canon printers.

[stank]

I've had my i960 since October '04 and love it. I usually print on Epson gloss paper and get very good results. I have photos of my kids taped to my office wall for about 2 years fully exposed to window light and air and have noticed little if any fading or discoloration.

 

Just to be certain, I think I'll print a new copy of one to compare.

 

My only gripe with the i960 is that I go through ink tanks like mad.

 

I do like the Epson printers. They are more versitile and have produce great prints. Their blacks seem a tad deeper than the i960.

Stan