Rebel 2000, metering in snow, simple instructions

[amanda_b.]

<br>Hi all. I started this thread over in Nature forum, as I needed a

newbie explanantion of metering for snow. I'm going to CO to

ski/photograph in March. Never done any metering before, didn't

really understand it.<br>

 

<br>Anyway the discussion turned to spot metering as the way to go,

but, my Rebel 2000 does not have that. I am going to be shooting only

print film, so I understand exposure is not as sticky as it would be

with slide, but, bottom line, I want good looking pictures and WHITE,

not grey, snow in my prints.<br>

 

<br>What can I do with the rebel 2000s metering? I would like to

avoid buying a hand-held light meter. I am travelling light - VERY

light, and will be on the slopes every day pretty much with just a

small backpack.<br>

 

<br>Could I maybe just set the exposure 1.2 to 2 stops over, and be

done with it??<br>

 

<br>Please read <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-

msg?msg_id=0073Td">this thread I started in Nature </a>, or at least

skim it, to see where I am coming from and what I've already been

told.<br>

 

<br>I know I will get great advice, so thanks in advance!

[ricardojmendez]

Amanda,

 

Yes, I'd suggest increasing exposure from 1-1.5 over what the meter says.

 

Another trick you can use is (if you're carring a zoom lens) to zoom in as much as possible on what you want to meter, do a partial meter off that, and zoom out for the photo. Partial meter is around 10% of the scene on the Rebel 2000, and zooming in from 28 to 80 would give you just a third of the scene, meaning that you'll be metering about 3% of the whole 28mm-encompassed scene.

 

It's not perfect, and probably won't be as good as a spot meter, but it can be a helpful trick.

 

Experiment, and don't be afraid to shoot more than one frame per scene to evaluate which ones give you the best results.

[jay_.]

Setting a +2 exposure comp won't hurt with print film. Another way is to switch to manual, read off the palm of your hand and set the exposure to overexpose 1.5 stops. Yet another way if you're outdoors and there's a clear blue north sky is to meter that with no compensation. Still another way is to forego the meter entirely and use the exposure guide printed inside the film box.

[Ken Katz]

Lets assume you are going to use "P" mode or any of the fully auto modes and color print film:

 

- For very bright conditions, add +1 exposure compensation (explanation: the evaluative meter is smart enough to know if the light level is brighter than normal daylight, it must be because of reflection from snow or sand or some other source. Add +1 just to be safe and an additional stop of light can't hurt when using print film).

 

- If most of what's in the viewfinder (especially around the activated focus point) is white, add +2 exposure compensation.

 

- If most of what's in the viewfinder (especially around the activated focus point) is neutral tone (clothing, trees, faces), add +1 stop exposure compensation.

 

- When in doubt, add more + exposure compensation. Its color print film which means error on the side of overexposure.

 

Hope this helps.

[rayliguori]

I started reading your thread in Nature and followed you here. Don't worry, I am not a stalker! I think everyone got a little technical on that thread -- especially sice you asked for SIMPLE and BASIC advice. The BASIC problem with snow is that your camera's meter tries to make everything middle grey. It under-exposes white and over-exposes black. The SIMPLE solution is to increase the exposure if your image is primarily white.

 

Regarding metering, just use the 35 zone meter (don't bother with the center weighted or 9.5% partial metering options). Do not go out and buy a spot meter, it will cost you more than your Rebel 2000!

 

To increase the exposure, you don't need to fiddle with changing f-stops and shutter speeds. Your camera has an exposure compensation feature (EV+-). If there is a lot of white in the picture set the EV at +1 and take the picture. Then take another shot at EV+2. This is called bracketing. Chances are excellent that one of these two shots will be correctly exposed, particularly since you are shooting print film.

[amanda_b.]

Big sigh of slight relief and the beginnings of comprehension over here...

 

Ok. I know how to bracket, I shot a few rolls of slide film once and did that, a little over, under and then at what the camera recommended. So I know that technique.

 

I have a magic lantern guide sitting at home, now that I think I know what to look for I will read about metering and all that. I think I can do this.

 

Thank you again. You guys and gals are the BEST!

[mark u]

There are many different routes to the same result. With your Rebel, using partial metering is blissfully easy - so long as you're not trying to use flash you just press the * button while in any of P, Av, Tv or M modes and the camera will hold the exposure that it measures from the central 9.5% portion of the frame for about 16 seconds (for M mode it will hold the metering - you have to adjust the exposure parameters with the dial) while you recompose and take the shot. Pressing the * again will take a fresh reading to overrule the existing one. A partial reading can be cancelled by flipping between exposure modes - say from Av to M and back again if you need to return to normal evaluative metering. So long as the central portion of the frame covers a "mid tone" subject when you press *, it won't matter whether the rest of the frame has snow or anything else as a background.

Using exposure compensation in P, Av or Tv isn't too difficult either - you press the Av button and while holding it pressed, turn the dial. You will see the compensation setting in the viewfinder or the top plate LCD. The thing to remember is that the only way to cancel the EC setting is to press the Av button and turn the dial in the opposite direction. Even switching the camera to L (off) won't affect any setting you've made. So don't forget to cancel the setting if you make one.

 

An alternative to setting EC is to adjust the ISO. ISO is normally set automatically by the film cartridge, but it can be overridden by turning to the ISO setting on the command dial, and then using the exposure dial to change it. As with EC, you need to remember to re-set it after you have finished. Decreasing the ISO will add exposure compensation. The settings are in 1/3 stop increments, and halving ISO is equivalent to one stop of positive EC. Changing ISO rather than using EC (or "overexposing" in M mode) will also lead to increased flash exposure should you be using flash - which you might or might not want, depending on how light or dark the subject is.

 

Having dealt with the mechanics of operating your camera, the choice of technique depends on what you are shooting and how much the lighting conditions (and proportion of snow in the image) are changing.

 

In constant conditions (e.g. a series of pictures of skiers passing the same point on a run) it will be most convenient to set an exposure in M mode using either "overexposure", EC or partial metering to set the initial exposure. Then it won't matter whether the skier is wearing a light electric blue suit or a black one.

 

In varying conditions (e.g. alternate shots onto sunlit and shaded portions of the slope) it will be faster to use .5 or EC in Av or Tv modes. However, you may also find that partial works well, even if it means you have to keep pressing that button.

 

If you want to capture a sunset behind the mountains, then partial meter off the sky, and leave the snow to be whatever colour it comes out to be.

 

A UV filter will cut down the blue cast from the much stronger UV illumination that occurs at altitude.

[cliff_henry]

Amanda,

 

All of the answers you have received are correct, but some are not *basic* or *simple*. I'll add my two cents in an effort to help.

 

I have done a lot of shooting in snow and although I usually use a spot meter, I understand the Rebel doesn't have that feature.

 

First, it would help if you had a better understanding of exposure. When I first started I read a book by a well respected outdoor photog in which he explained exposure and how he compensated for different lighting siturations. His method got me totally confused and I ruined a lot of film. I finally found a book by John Shaw and I think his explantion of exposure and compensation is the simplest and best I've read. I use what I learned from him on almost every shot I take. I would suggest you get one of his books or at least go to a book store and read a chapter on exposure. If you really want to learn exposure, he has a tape on exposure which I think you can order from his web site.

 

Your camera's meter cannot make adjustments for extreme lighting conditions. When the area being metered does not have average lighting, i.e., reflects 18% - midtone, your meter will assume the light it is seeing is 18% and set exposure accordingly. If the metered light is brighter (snow) than 18% the meter will make the shot 18% and underexpose the shot - snow become gray and 18% areas are to dark. And of course, if area metered is darker that 18% (dark forest on mtn. side or skier in black ski suit) the meter will make shot 18% and overexpose the shot - blacks become grayish and 18% areas are to light. This can be a big problem when shooting a skier in a black ski suit with bright sun on snow.

 

You need to learn what 18% reflected light looks like and practice idenifying lighting that is brighter or darker that 18%. Once you do that then you will know whether to let the camera's meter set your exposure or whether you will override meter and compensate exposure.

 

Now to try and make it simple. Your camera's meter is expecting to see 18% reflected light. If you know the area you are going to shoot is not 18% then you must decide what subject in the shot is your main subject that you want exposured correctly and set exposure for main subject's lighting. Let's say you are shooting a person in a black ski suit with bright sun on snow background and you want the person's face exposed correctly. If person covers only a small area in your viewfinder then meter is seeing more snow that anything else and will underexpose shot, making person's face to dark. To solve you need to tell camera's meter that the person's fact is reflecting 18% of the available light. If you used a hand held light meter, you would place it next the person's face, but we are not using a hand held meter. As others have suggested, you could meter another area that is receiving same light and which contained only sun lit snow, compensate by opening, adding light, +1 1/2 - +2 stops, locking exposure and then recomposing on person and take shot. As another poster suggested, I sometimes use the sky if there are no clouds and lock exposure on sky before recomposing. To do this you need to be able to ID a midtone blue. If you move in close to person in black ski suit and they fill most of viewfinder, then meter will see mostly black and overexpose shot. Are you seeing the pattern yet?

 

If you are on the mtn. and shooting wide shots filled mostly w/snow, I would set exposure compensating to +1 1/2 for cloudy day to +2 for bright day, leave it set up this way and shoot away. Just be aware meter is setup for snow only and if you shoot something else, like close up of person, you will need to change compensation.

 

I hope this is of some help.

 

Cliff

[jimstrutz]

I agree with the others about increasing your exposure 1 to 2 stops. One way to do that is by simply resetting the ISO for your film. If you're using 400 SO film, set the ISO to 100 or 200. But a better way is to use the Rebel's Auto Exposure Compensation (AEC) feature.

 

The advantage of using AEC is that it is easier to vary the amount of exposure increase depending on the picture. I find I like to increase by 2 stops if the Sun is shining and there is lots of snow showing in the picture. But if it is cloudy or if darker areas are making up a lot of the picture I use only 1 to 1.5 stops of positive AEC.

 

Another thing to think about is printing. The automatic printing machines that are used in one hour places will see all that white area in your pictures and probably decide that they must be overexposed. So those "inteligent" machines will likely compensate for your overexposures and print very nice middle gray pictures. Not at all what you want. The only economical solution is to take them back and ask them nicely to do them over and make the snow look white, not gray.

[nicholas_bellamy]

I had the same problem in NZ when we went glacier walking, when I took a

few on my EOS 1000f which only has partial meter, additionally it does�nt

have exposure lock, and I wanted the smallest aperture available hand held

(most using 24mm fixed lens).

 

On the guided tour everyone was given a bright red bag (which was close

enough to middle grey for me) to carry their ice talons. So..... if you are getting

a new item of clothing before you go, choose a colour which corresponds to

middle grey, alternatively sew a piece of fabric onto the side of your bag

which is middle grey. The trick mentioned above with skin is a good idea, but

if it is really cold you might not want to take off your gloves, so get some

middle grey gloves ???

 

In the end, I used 1/focal length to select a 1/20 or 1/30 in Tv, then partial

metered off someones red bag with the bag filling the partial meter zone,

memorised the aperture, recomposed the shot and used the exposure

compensation to select the memorised aperture.

 

All shots taken were exposed better than I had hoped for and I did�nt bracket

once.

 

I you want to buy a book, then get Jim Zuckermann�s �The Perfect

Exposure�.... the whole book deals with the techniques detailed above (which

is where I learnt), and it devotes an entire chapter to snow. It also covers

adapting when there is no middle grey.

[amanda_b.]

I am thinking I am going to use the bracket option, to me that is MUCH easier to just hit my AE+- button then up the stop to either 1.5 or 2, based on the previous recommendations.

 

Nicholas, good point about not wanting to take off my gloves to get a reading.

 

What colors would read mid-grey? I was surprised that you used a bright red, I wouldn't think that color would work.

[amanda_b.]

I meant my "AV+-" button. Not AE.

[cliff_henry]

Amanda,

 

You asked for a *simple* and *basic* way to help you get properly exposed images while shooting in snow. Asking a group of "experts" for their opinion about a subject that can become very complicated can only lead to total confusion. After reading all the replies to your question, on both threads, I think I'm confused (;>)) and I've been in photography for over 30 years.

 

So, to answer your original question - *simple* and *basic*, as I said in my first post and as another poster said, just set your exposure compensation to +1 1/2 for all your snow shots where you will meter mostly snow, leave it set that way all the time and shoot away. When you are not metering mostly snow then reset exposure compensation back to zero. As the other poster pointed out, this will not be perfect for all your shots but is the simplest and will not require much additional learning on your part.

 

If you want to learn a little more about how exposure meters work and how to adjust them for different lighting conditions, then again I suggest you read one of John Shaw's chapters - the link you were given to Shaw's article on adjusting for "White" does not show any picture of what mid-tone, 18%, looks like in different colors, yes red can be mid-tone - on exposure or better yet get his video on the subject. Without this knowledge you will have difficulty trying some of the suggested methods.

 

You stated in your last answer that you were going to use bracketing. I'm not farmilar with the Rebel's bracketing range, but I'm not sure this will solve your problem. Bracketing is normally used in siturations where the photog is unsure of how to set the exposure. If you understand exposure, bracketing is unnecessary. Additional your film cost will triple and you can't bracket action shots like skiers coming down the mtn. How are you going to set your bracketing? One shot at 0, one at +1 and one at -1. In snow only one of these will be exposed correctly. Can you set the Rebel to breaket one at 0 one at +1 and one at +2? Again, if on snow the one set at 0 will not be exposed correctly. I'm not trying to confuse you but rather point out that if you don't have a better understanding of exposure then set compensate to +1 1/2 and forget it.

 

Good luck on your trip and don't forget to have fun.

 

Cliff

[amanda_b.]

I'm not going to bracket. I thought bracketing was when you simply shot a scene more than once and change the exposure compensation each time. Now I understand, bracketing is a series of shots with same exposure and different aperature.

 

What I think I plan to do is over expose 1.5 in overcast situations and +2 in full sun, assuming snow is in most of the shot. And that it is mid day.

 

I may, if I have time, do a few shots where I meter a very bright spot in the scene, a dark spot, and take the average of the two in terms of exposure. But only if time allows.

 

Who knows. Maybe I'll be left alone on day on/near the slopes with nothing but my camera to entertain me (I hope!) and I can experiment. BUT I am assuming that won't happen.

 

I do know I've never been in this much snow before, much less a high-altitude mountain town, and may never again, so I wanted the best and most fool-proof way to get decent pictures. Which I understand is probably what EVERYBODY wants, most of the time, but I think I do have the advice I needed!

[nicholas_bellamy]

Bright red as in not dull when viwed in sunlight. Not light red as in closer to

pink than burgundy.... if you catch my drift...

 

If you know what colour a Berghaus waterproof red jacket looks like then you

will know which red I mean.

 

The best way to explain all this is to get Jim Zuckermann's book mentioned in

my other post, I understood it so it must be idiot proof. "Bookends" in Dorking,

Surrey (UK discount bookstore) were selling these at about 10 GB pounds

each in October.

 

The book deals with different difficult lighting situations, and the snow / ice

chapter shows about 6 images all of which would fool a matrix meter, and he

describes how he metered them properly (without bracketing) from mid-grey

tones in the image, and details the exact bit the used for the "spot", including

rock faces, tree bark, wolf fur, blue ice stalagtites etc. etc.

 

For 10 quid it is by far the most useful photo book I have ever bought.