Seeking advice for 5-day UT/AZ canyon tour

[zapped]

Hi, I'm a longtime reader, 1st-time poster. Using search, I've

devoured just about every photo.net post that ever mentioned the

Utah/Arizona canyons, but I'm looking for still more info.

 

In late December, the closure of the Salt Lake City airport left me &

my family stranded at a Phoenix airport. This sent us on an impromptu

road trip from Phoenix, thru Flagstaff, up Rt.89 by the Grand Canyon,

and onward onto IH-15 to Salt Lake City. Never having seen that part

of the world from the ground, I'm now obsessed with the notion of

returning for a "scouting trip" to plan a future lengthy vacation in

the area.

 

For this five-day trip I'm planning for early April, I'll be traveling

alone in a 2WD rental car with my Canon 300D & gear - lenses, tripod,

laptop, food, water, first-aid kit etc. I don't mind doing a *lot* of

driving, but I'd like to be somewhere reasonably photogenic for each

sunrise/sunset, plus have a photo op during my mid-day drives to the

next location.

 

My plan is to cover about 1200mi in a counter-clockwise circle

starting from Las Vegas, going by Hoover Dam as I head toward the

South Rim of the Grand Canyon, hitting the North Rim of the Grand

Canyon, Glen Canyon Dam area, the Lower Antelope slot canyon, "The

Wave" at Coyote Buttes, Bryce, and Zion, finally returning in Vegas.

Yeah, *phew*.

 

The devil is in the details, so here's how I break it down ("long

drive" means over 200mi, "short drive" is under 100mi):

 

day 1 sunrise = [fly into las vegas 8am]

 

day 1 mid-day = hoover dam, long drive

 

day 1 sunset = grand canyon, south rim

 

day 2 sunrise = grand canyon, south rim

 

day 2 mid-day = navajo bridge on way to north rim, two medium drives

 

day 2 sunset = grand canyon, north rim

 

day 3 sunrise = glen canyon dam vicinity

 

day 3 mid-day = register for next day at "the wave", glen canyon dam,

lower antelope canyon, one medium drive

 

day 3 sunset = bryce, sunset point

 

day 4 sunrise = bryce, bryce point

 

day 4 mid-day = coyote buttes "the wave", two short drives

 

day 4 sunset = zion

 

day 5 sunrise = zion

 

day 5 mid-day = tour springdale galleries, medium drive

 

day 5 sunset = [vegas strip]

 

At each "photo op" (whether sunrise, sunset, mid-day) I don't plan to

hike more than one to two hours, and no insanely strenuous terrain at

that. I run/bike/swim a lot so I'm not too concerned about over-doing

it, but I'm not an experienced back-country hiker either. I'm also

allowing myself 8 to 8-1/2 of sleep each night so I don't Lose The

Will To Live ;)

 

I see that all the advance-issued entry permits for The Wave disappear

6 months ahead of time, so I plan to be at the Paria contact station

the day *before* I want to see The Wave to obtain a day-in-advance

walk-in permit if possible. I understand that's a lottery for the 10

available permits. My alternate plan if I don't get a permit is to

simply go further down the dirt road to the visit the Paria area,

which allows unlimited day-hikers.

 

I thought about skipping the South Rim, but since I'm a n00b to this

terrain, I figure I have to experience it at least once. I'd imagine I

would only go the North Rim in a future trip.

 

Anway, I'm looking for feedback on these hectic plans - something I

really need to add an extra day to see, suggestions for quick stops

"along the way", alternate sites to check out, short hikes you might

recommend in zion or bryce, books to read, first-person reports of

recent trips to the area. Fire away & thanks!<div></div>

[dfdncithekxlbn8kaglf33]

This drive-by shooting as planned will get you a shot of each place, but you are not going to get to have much of a feel for any of these places, not to mention leaving with the feeling that you should come back and spend more time. So, half this route and take some more time. It will still be a speeding ticket waiting to happen, but you can sti down in something besides a drivers seat and see a bit more, maybe even talk to someone.

[george_gilbert]

Dear Zapped:

 

I think you've planned way to much driving and not nearly enough looking. But we can change some of that right away. According to the National Park web site, the North Rim of the Grand Canyon has no visitors services or facilities open until mid-May. I don't believe they even make an attempt to keep the road open.

 

I'd also skip the Springdale galleries.

[craig_gillette]

Several years ago we were in that area the first week of April. A snow storm came out of California and camped out over northern Arizona for 4 days. From Vegas to Williams to Flagstaff was pretty and a comfortable but longish day as we stopped several times, took old 66 and wasted time at Grand Canyon Caverns. The next morning there was 1.5 feet of snow on the ground and close to another foot by the end of the day. Even the Interstates didn't open that day. The next day some of them were open by about noon and we were able to get to Sedona, barely, even with another 6" of snow in the morning and then able to get to Williams to overnight for the train the third day. With another 6" new snow. It was freezing at the South Rim and with clouds, couldn't see into the canyon but ice freezing on the trees would break off and pelt the tourists anyways.

 

What I'm getting to is that this is may not be a gentle spring like time of the year. Serious winter storms are still possible. So you might want to play it by ear. Maybe from Vegas along the north side, Zion, et al, to Page or go the south side, hit the south rim, Flagstaff, Sedona and Oak Creek areas. Sure the loop may be doable, but it may not be. And why not take some time to enjoy it, even if you are scouting for a longer trip later.

[bill_proud]

Zapped,

 

I'll agree with all the others, plus I live in this area and photographed most of what you want this summer, so I'm familiar with drive times.

 

First, you need to register at Coyote Buttes station first thing in the morning. It is about thirty miles west of Page. People arrive at sun-up but the station opens at 8'ish. You might call the BLM office at Kanab before you go. During the winter, you have to sign up in Kanab, which is 50 miles west of the Coyote Buttes road. They can tell you when entry sign-ups switch back to Paria.

If there are more than 10 people wanting in, they go to a lottery and pick ten names.

 

It's a long way to Bryce from Paria and I personally feel Bryce is overrated. You might think about other options. Coral Pink Sand Dunes is just west of Kanab. It is small but might make a nice sunset.

 

There is always Horseshoe Bend right in Page for an early morning shot and you could spend all day in lower Antelope.

 

There is too much in your itinerary to comment in this one post but if you come out of the north rim and head east toward Page, you can take the cutoff road which goes past the Coyote Buttes parking area, it's dirt but is two wheel if no rain is expected. About 40 miles long. Look at some maps, it might not be wise in the dark.

 

I'd recommend south rim over north rim. More overlooks and closer together.

 

good luck,

[robert goldstein]

I'm exhausted just reading your itinerary. I agree with others that you may be trying

to cover too much territory in the time alloted. A more limited approach will probably

result in better photographs, because you will have more time to explore in depth

those areas that you visit.

 

I am a long-time resident of the American Southwest, and I have been to most of the

places you mention. I would not include both the north and south rims of the Grand

Canyon in the same trip, because they are basically the same, although different.

Zion is fabulous, but must be toured on foot to really appreciate. Bryce is a

photographer's dream, which is probably why so many have photographed it over the

years. There are no facilities open in the park during the winter, although the nearby

town should have some motels. Hoover Dam is definitely something to eliminate,

unless you feel compelled to mix in a non-natural wonder.

 

The Southwest has enough beauty to fill a lifetime of travel and photography. Save

some of it for another trip. FWIW, my personal favorite is Telluride at the time of the

fall colors.

[steve_levine]

What you have described is a 5 week trip,not 5 days!Also April,can still be quite cold & winter like in the higher elevations.Roads out here are also only 2 lanes,what you figure is an hour drive is usually 2-3 hours.

[zapped]

Thanks for all the comments & please keep 'em coming!

 

Chris Gillis wrote: This drive-by shooting as planned will get you a shot of each place, but you are not going to get to have much of a feel for any of these places, not to mention leaving with the feeling that you should come back and spend more time.

 

I agree, but remember this is a scouting trip *intended* to leave me with the feeling I should come back and spend more time.

 

 

george gilbert wrote: the North Rim of the Grand Canyon has no visitors services or facilities open until mid-May. I don't believe they even make an attempt to keep the road open.

 

True, I'll only head to the North Rim if the road is open and the weather forecast clear. I have read several other accounts of really pleasant visits to the North Rim in April, though - in fact in one journal the author expressed surprised at how many people were around the lonely porti-potties assembled in the visitor's area. So barring snowstorms I'd certainly like to try it. If a freak storm hits, I guess I'll be exploring the natural wonder that is The Vegas Strip.

 

G.G. continued: I'd also skip the Springdale galleries.

 

Given all the controversy surrounding M.Fatali's actions, I've *gotta* see his gallery for myself. I'm inspired by the photography of others whether the source of that inspiration is admiration or revulsion.

 

 

Craig Gillette warned of the vagaries of April weather: Several years ago we were in that area the first week of April. A snow storm came out of California and camped out over northern Arizona for 4 days. ... Even the Interstates didn't open that day.... Serious winter storms are still possible. So you might want to play it by ear.

 

Appreciate the warning. My itinerary may look as spontaneous as a shuttle launch, but in reality it will definitely be a "play it by ear" tour. Planning, for me, is just a way to explore ideas about what I *could* do with 5 action-packed days, not what I *must* or *will* do.

 

 

bill proud shared some info about registering for The Wave - appreciate that. I did call BLM last week & they said the Paria contact station (the one 30mi west of Page on 89) is indeed open in April. As Bill indicated, I should be there at 8:30am to sign up, but they wait until 9am to see if more than 10 people want to go, at which point they have a lottery if necessary.

 

bill proud also wrote: It's a long way to Bryce from Paria and I personally feel Bryce is overrated.

 

Ouch! But I've *gotta* see it for myself, even if I don't return in a future visit.

 

B.P. continued: There is always Horseshoe Bend right in Page for an early morning shot ...

 

I googled for the GPS coords of the Horseshoe Bend overlook (36.8785°N 111.5104°W) and also reminded myself what it looked like. Now THAT is a great idea for an a.m. shot since the overlook appears to be facing West, and is only a 0.4mi walk in from the Rt.89 pulloff.

 

Thanks!

 

 

Robert Goldstein suggested choosing *either* North or South rim, not both. As I mentioned above, my preference is for North but I'll consider South Rim only since the roads are clearly safer.

 

R.G. also wrote: Bryce is a photographer's dream, which is probably why so many have photographed it over the years. There are no facilities open in the park during the winter, although the nearby town should have some motels.

 

The lodge inside the park opens 4/1/04 according to the reservation site, and some dates are already filling. I'm either going to overnight there or maybe the Best Western Ruby's Inn just outside the gates.

[ShunCheung]

First of all, as others have pointed out, the Grand Canyon north rim won't be open until at least May. I have been to Bryce in mid May; because of its high altitude, it was very cold there.

 

If at all possible, I would do this trip in mid May or later. And in 5 days, you'll be doing mainly driving and very little time even for scouting. Keep in mind that the weather is not necessarily in all of your 5 days. The light could be poor or some road may not be open because of snow. You are leaving yourself no room for error.

 

If you indeed have only 5 days in April, I would say spend them all at the Grand Canyon. To do a loop like that, I would day at lesat 10 days, but you'll still have no access to the North Rim in April.

[zapped]

April 11, 2000 at the North Rim. No snow in sight:

http://www.izix.com/personal/travel/utah/day4.php

 

Of course there could be bad weather, but my understanding is it's _usually_ not a problem to get to the North Rim in April.

[bob_tescione]

If you are taking I-15 back to Las Vegas, consider a stop at Valley of Fire state park, about 40 miles north of LV. And on the outskirts of LV is Red Rock park.

 

Just outside St George UT is Snow Canyon State park - small but nice. St G is about an hour and a half from LV.

 

North of St George, on the way to Cedar City is a turnoff for the Kolob Canyon section of Zion NP. Can be nice late in the day. Also with snow.

 

All in all, a great area to explore.

 

Bob Tescione

[mark_jordan3]

Hi,<br>

I think you've gotten enough concerns thrown at you! With any roadtrip, some of your plans are going to have to be deferred to on the spot decision making. Keep this plan...I would just suggest you now draft a plan "B" and "C". That way if bad weather hits, you come down with a cold and/or your just having a hard time keeping your eyes open while driving you can turn to alternatives without having to recalculate everything in the heat of the moment. I've been through this area many times...sometimes just passing through and it's easy to get caught up with one particular spot; if you really come across something interesting where time/weather/setting all align, allow yourself to enjoy it...it may not be that way the next time.

[craig_gillette]

One of the things to think about is "open" can be as much a budget issue as a weather issue. The visitor center facilities on North Rim aren't "open" even though there may be restroom facilities available and the road is open. There may be roads that look clear that are gated, etc. "Highways" are likely to be open but plowing may take some time. While you shouldn't have trouble finding lodging/camping, it never hurts to check in advance about local closures for budget and maintenance.

[phyrpowr]

Zapped,

 

I'm a mileage eater too when I go to the Southwest, hey, I'm a poor state employee from North Carolina, and I can't get back to a different locale every two weeks.

 

I did a circle much like yours last fall, spending several days in Sedona, and have been to Bryce/Zion several years ago, so I have a good feel for the time/distances/places you want to hit. Thery're doable, but I agree on the fallback plans depending on weather.

 

Ditto eliminating the North Rim, and the two dams aren't worth more than an hour each, if that. Rebudget that time for the South Rim, maybe a trip to Sedona, and Utah. I don't know about Bryce at Sunset, or in the Spring, dawn was great in October, get some guidebooks for the Southwest, there are tons of them, they'll tell you about your light direction. Not sure about light in Antelope Canyon that time of year.

 

Since you plan to overnight in Springdale, hit the galleries, won't take that long, p*ss on that arsonist's place if you can, eat at Oscar's, just follow the scent of cooking garlic, don't wear your good shirt or worry about how you look eating, those burgers take work and dedication, and are worth twice the price.

 

Enjoy.

[vegasllew]

One suggestion for "plan B" is to consider that this is one of the better years (from autumn rain standpoint) in So. Cal and Las Vegas area for spring wildflowers. My wife (UNLV Biology Professor)and I (former senior science advisor for the U.S. EPA)lead informal wildflower trips for UNLV professors' wives and other such groups, so we're very tuned to the prospects of good wildflower years. Your targetted week (first week of April) is mainstream for the Mohave Desert wildflowers. In a good year, like this one promises to be, the desert can be spectacular.

[les_barstow]

For Zion: Use the time after sunset to do the galleries; use the midday to do Zion Canyon - the light doesn't hit the canyon itself during golden hours... I second the suggestion on Kolob Canyons - take it for a sunset tour.

 

For Bryce: Sunset is a tough nut to crack at Bryce; the amphitheatres all face Eastish. You *might* have better luck at Kodachrome Basin or Red Canyon. Or you might get lucky on the sunset. I'll also second another poster's observation - Bryce is at 8000 ft. elevation; it's cold, windy, and often snowy into May. Pretty, but be warned.

 

For Pariah: It looks like you're planning on Cottonwood Canyon to get you to Pariah; that's usually well and good, but be aware that like many Utah dirt roads, it's partially composed of Bentonite clays; if there's been any snow in the previous several days, I'd stay off of it. Be sure to check the road conditions with the Pariah contact station, too, just in case it's had a washout...

 

In addition to the above, I also second the Horseshoe Bend and Coral Pink recommendations if you have the time. If you're running behind from The Wave, Coral Pink might make a quick acceptable sunset alternative to Zion... And make plans to schedule a followup loop tour to the greater Four Corners area all the way up through Moab and Capitol Reef :-)

[christian deichert]

Since you're that close to Flagstaff anyway, might consider Wupatki National Monument, possibly Walnut Canyon NM as well. Wupatki is definitely worth it -- the pueblos are in a great setting. Sunset Crater is a nice drive as well. See my portfolio for Wupatki photos.

[christian deichert]

Hit the submit button too fast. Anyway, the North Rim may or may not be open, but it's impossible to say now. Plan with it and plan without it, and call for road conditions as time gets closer (say, a week out).

 

Also, this may be a no-brainer for you, but just in case, do get the National Park Golden Eagle pass -- that $50 will pay for itself and then some or this trip.

[nathan_cohen]

This is --at least-- a 10 day journey for a photographer. Not only did you underestimate the drive times, but the scouting and set up times. Believe me; I like to get in there and move onto the next shot, but AZ and southern Utah just can't be done quickly.

[zapped]

After reading all your kind responses, one change I'll make is to go *clockwise* to hit Zion & Bryce first. Zion is closest to LV so I can assess the weather from there. After Bryce I'd hit Antelope Canyons, possible The Wave, Horsehoe Bend, then decide on North or South rim (or both) based again on weather outlook.

 

To Bob T & Llewellyn W - thanks for the tips on Red Rock. I'd like to see those spring wildflowers on the last day of my visit.

 

To Mark J - yep, "Plan B" is now the clockwise trip so that I hit the parks most likely to be clear first, saving the iffy ones for last. That way I can always bail back to LV for the man-made scenery :)

 

To Jack F - Sedona is definitely a huge time sink for my short trip so I'll have to skip that. And I feel the same way as you about Fatali's gallery but I still admit that part of me likes those over-saturated cartoons he creates.

 

To Les B - I'm gonna avoid Cottonwood Canyon road thru Grand Staircase, staying on 89 instead. Thanks for the warning about road conditions there.

 

To Christian D - yep, an annual pass is definitely a Must Buy.

 

Thanks again everyone. Anybody lurking should NOT be afraid to keep responding - the advice is a big help for me & hopefully for anyone else considering a visit to this area.

[kirk_keyes]

As with others, I think you are going to be stretched far too thin. I would suggest skipping Hoover and the South Rim and sticking to the north side of the Grand Canyon.

 

One of your days in particular needs to be reassessed - Day 4. Too much travel and not enough time. You have day sunrise = bryce, bryce point, mid-day = coyote buttes "the wave" - two short drives, sunset = zion.

 

Sunrise at Bryce will take you an hour, travelling to the Wire Pass Trail Head for Coyote Buttes will take over 3 hours. That's just the trailhead. For your first time out to The Wave, it will probably take you a bit over 2 hours of hiking (there is no real trail for much of the distance). There is much to see at The Wave - the upper area below Top Rock may have water in it and it is worth looking at - and there is an area south of the Wave that is perhaps more interesting than the Wave itself that you should see. And to top it off, it is best to leave the trail head by 8 AM as the Wave itself is better in the morning to noontime hours while the area to the south is best seen when the sun hits the ridge (The Notch) to the west. So if you leave when the sun hits the ridge, you now have about 90 minutes of sunlight left, which is just about how long it takes to hike out when you know the way (bring a flash light). The route is about 3 miles over riverbed, sand, and slickrock and is pretty much unmarked. The Paria Station had a video that showed the important landmarks along the way - ask to see it.

 

Keep in mind that the road to the Wire Pass trailhead cuts across a couple of creekbeds and can be quite impassable to low clearance cars if they have had water in them or they have not been graded recently, which I was once told is sometimes only twice a year. Also, as mentioned above, it crosses sections of Bentonite that is impassible to any vehicles when damp.

 

So now you want to go to Zion for sunset, and that will take about 2 more hours just to get there. I add that up be about a 12 to 15 hour day for the minimum time - I don't think you can make to Zion in time for sunset.

 

I would suggest that you try this route - Day 1 - Zion first, then Day 2 go to North Rim and come back to Kanab for the night. Day 3 head to Page and but stop by Kanab BLM or Paria Station early in the day to try and get a Coyote Buttes permit. Then continue to Page and see Antelope Canyon (remember not to go in if rain is threatening). Day 4 - Come back and spend the day at Coyote Buttes and stay in Ruby's (plan on a long day), and then spend the morning of Day 5 at Bryce. This leaves you your last day to travel back to Vegas, and perhaps hit Zion a little bit more. This gives you 5 easier days to see all you wanted minus the South Rim.

 

ALso, be gentle when walking around at Coyote Buttes - the rock around there is very delicate and it will break easily.

 

Kirk

[david_henderson]

You've got a lot of advice, so I'll keep this short.

 

I don't think your day 4 works either.

 

The best places on the Bryce rim are IMHO Sunset and Sunrise

Points. One faces north, the other south. Inspiration Point is my

third choice. Bryce Point is not as good.

 

When you're doing the "real thing" go to Cedar Breaks pm after a

morning at Bryce. It's a bit like Bryce and faces west, so it gets

sun late in the day. Bryce is not usually a good late-day or

sunset location.

 

Coral pink sand-dunes are really not v. interesting. There's a lot

that is.

 

The dams aren't much use photographically. There's a

viewpoint a few miles west of the Glen Canyon dam- about half

way to Wahweap and just off the road to Big Water, that is a

decent dawn overlook for Lake Powell. You'll see it on the right

from the main road. The best viewpoints of Lake Powell need

4wd. If it's wet they need a helicopter.

[fourfa]

Hoover isn't much to take photos of, I agree. but if you're a fan of big technology, the book "Cadillac Desert," history of the west, etc it's worth a midday stop. the scale of the undertaking is worth appreciating. the film they show at the visitor center is decent. unfortunately, the best part of visiting the dam - the "hard hat" tour through the dam interior, spill tunnels, and generators, is no longer offered due to terrorism concerns.

 

I recommend eating at the Bit and Spur in Springdale, outside Zion if you have the chance after sunset one night. Colorful, rich, unusual food.

[claire_curran1]

Do yourself a favor; for 1/10th the amount that trip will cost you you can buy all the great photo and guide books that cover the Colorado Plateau. Study those books and then make a more thought out photographic trip. You will have a better idea of where to go, how long it will take to get there, and what you want to photograph.

 

For such a short trip I would confine myself to Zion, Bryce, and Coyote Buttes. These three areas are relatively close to one another. Each area has a wealth of photographic opportunities. By allowing yourself more time in these areas you actually might come up with some decent photographs.

[w_byrn]

Here is my two cents worth.I have driven to Zion Park four of the last six weekends;the storms that have been coming in create the most dramatic scenery, in my book. Snow Canyon state park has some very nice formations.You could get off I-15 at Beaver Dam in Arizona right after Mesquite and head in on the old road.You will pass the Woodbury desert research area and can turn in there and walk around in a somewhat natural plant community that hasn't been destroyed by overgrazing and get a nice feel for the Mojave /Sonoran biom.It was set aside many years ago to study desert tortiose.There is BLM land all through this area and the camping is free.A good multiple use map should show that.If you keep going on this road as you crest the grade and head down you can take the left turn for Gunlock reservoir and head up the Santa Clara.Keep an eye out for wildflowers blooming. This road will take you through a pretty canyon with lots of volcanic rock.There is an obscure Ansel Adams image of the Gunlock area that captures the lava flow quite well.You can follow this road to Veyo and go right and head through St. George back to I-15 north to the hwy 9 turn off or you can pass that and get off at Silver Reef and drive up there at the base of the Pine Valley mountains and have a great over view of the Virgin River valley before you head up it.

Back on 15N and off at Toquerville and through Laverkin to the town of Virgin.Here you can turn left and head up the Kolob part of the park.(I forgot St. George is the place to load up on supplies.)On to Springdale and the main canyon.Since you will be getting there after March you will have to bike or hike in if you don't want to take the shuttle bus in the main canyon.The hike up Angels Landing is breathtaking and you feel like one when you see the view.The Emarald Pools hike is great too as well as the walk into the Court of the Patriarchs.The Narrows isn't yoo shabby either.I have been in this canyon hundreds of times and it never looks the same twice.You can take the road at Rockville that takes you to the restored town of Grafton and look at the Park from there or drive up the dirt road on onto the mesas on the south side of the river and look at the park from there.

I would head across the top of the Kolob to the paved road east of Cedar City that takes you to the south entrance to Cedar Breaks for evening light.It is high altitude and will be cool but beautiful.Make sure you have a good map and check the weather and road conditions.I always have a good sleeping bag,water,food,and a shovel.

Don't get so caught up in the hype over so called about the "big" places that you drive right by some beautiful places.Listen to your intuition as you travel and take that side road for a little ways that calls to you if it looks safe to drive on and you pay attention how to get back out. Walt Byrnes