Pick a camera question...

[robert_meyers]

Hey ya all!

 

I am selling of my Canon SLRs (replaced with an E-1 DSLR), and I am

looking to probably reinvest in an M Mount camera. I have found

focusing at 1 meter to be a little tricky with my G1, and so figured

I would go this route. I like close, shallow grab style portraits.

So I came up with the list of contenders for bodies, and a question

on lens. Please feel free to help me out here if possible.

 

Now normally, for a RF, I use a Contax G1. Doing the grab portraits

I am very close 1-1.25m, and running F2.8 (not always, but often).

Otherwise I use it as a street camera. So this is going to have to

take the place of this if I pick it up.

 

So here is my short list of cameras: Minolta CLE, M6TTL, M7.

 

Now here are the lenses I need to replace:

 

28mm F2.8

35mm F2

45mm F2

90mm F2.8

 

Now I would like a little faster if possible, but quality comes

first. Sadly, I am trying to replace some utterly stunning glass

here? but things happen. My big conserne is the 90/2.8 and the

45.2. From commentary I have heard, I am being pushed towards the

90/2 for Leica and the 45, towards the Nokton. So, what would you

consider good replacements for this kit?

 

Thanks all!

[luq]

"From commentary I have heard, I am being pushed towards the 90/2 for Leica and the 45, towards the Nokton."

 

I'm pretty new to the M system and rangefinders in general, but all that I've read seems to tell me that you'd be better served with a Elmarit-M 90/2.8 and with the savings, a current 50 summicron.

 

You won't be losing out on a whole lot with the Elmarit-M, and the 50 'cron is *supposedly* a better lens than the Nokton on the whole.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[luq]

Oops, unless you mean the pre-AA 90/2...in which case, my post wouldn't make much sense.

[socke]

At least here in germany, my G2 kit with 28,45 and 90mm, hoods, caps and tla200 flash sells for around 1200 Euro. A well used M4-2 is around 1000 Euro which leaves 100 Euro for a lens :-).

 

The Contax G system is not comparable to a Leica M System. IMHO one can not replace one by the other. I've got a G2, 28, 45 and 90mm kit with hoods, caps and TLA 200 flash for less than a used M6TTL.

 

To qualify for this forum, I have a Leica IIIf with a 50 Elmar and a Zorki 4 with jupiter-8 :-)

[socke]

Ooops, should be 1100 Euro for the M4.

[capocheny]

Rob,

 

Consider the M6 Classic unless you're going to use flash with your "grab portraits."

It'll save you a few bucks and are fairly common on Ebay at the moment. The M7 is a

beautiful camera and certainly would be another option... they're quite a bit more

money than the M6/M6TTL.

 

A friend of mine uses the Nokton and he's got some pretty darn sharp images... so, I

wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of those if money is a consideration.

 

It also depends on the kind of street shooting you're planning on doing... are you

going to raise the camera to eye-level for framing or are you going to shoot from the

hip (so to speak)? If you're shooting from the hip... definitely a 28 Elmarit or 35 cron.

 

I've used the 90 cron and it's a great piece of glass... but the 90 Elmarit is also a nice

lens.

 

Hope this helps...

 

Cheers.

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

For grab shots, street style, what you're saying is that the M7 would work best.

Since you're interested in speed and high quality I don't know how you could

miss going with all Summicrons---28, 35, and the new 90 chron. Since it

sounds like cost isn't a consideration that would be the best you could do. It'd

be a terrific set.

[peter_evans4]

<p>45/2, eh? A couple of years ago, Pentax put out a 43/1.9 at

¥150,000. (Translation into your currency: stratospheric.) It's very

highly regarded. (It comes with a fine 43/50 viewfinder too, complete

with diopter adjustment.) The price here in Tokyo for

like-new-but-not-in-box examples has dropped to ¥35,000

(translation: cheaper than a new Nokton, roughly the same as a used

one).</p>

[kaiblanke]

If you like grab-style portraits take a deeper look at the just discontinued Hexar RF. They have a motor and an AE mode, which you both might miss coming from a G1. The Minolta CLE is usually quite old and costs almost the same which is making the Konica the better choice. The M6TTL is a nice buy currently, but the faster-to-use M7 is too expensive still.

<p>

As for the lenses, the matching Hexanon-M 50/2 is at least as good as the Summicron at a very low price. The Elmarit 90/2.8 is a very nice lens without doubt, but with the 90mm lenses there are no bad choices at all currently. As for the wideangles, the 35/2 Summicron has set standards and instead of the 28 you might prefer to get something a bit wider like the 25/6 or even the 21/4 Voigtlaender.

[barefoot]

Why not replace your G1 with a G2?

[jay_.]

Why not get a Digilux-2. If you're selling all your Canon SLR's and lenses to get an Olympus DSLR instead of a Canon DSLR for your lenses, quality is obviously not your major priority.

[c_d5]

Wie Geht, Robert.

Seems like the prices are very high in Germany. You could get a better deal on this forum. It is better if you could get a deal on an M6. In regards of the lens, why don't you take a look some of the sample pic made by both the 90'cron and 90'elmarit that can be found here on this forum before you make the decision? Same goes with the Nokton. Scroll down to the For Sale: FS section in this forum.

[skip_williams]

My opinions as an E-1, OM-System (declining), and Leica user:

<br><br>

- CLE: great camera, esp in its day, issues with repairability as no parts are available except from spares. Why go there?

<br>- M6TTL vs. M7. I sold my M6's for an M7, which I much prefer. Just make sure you take extra batteries with you, as it's very easy to drain the M7's battery by accident. M7 has poorer extreme cold weather performance due to batteries. For me, much faster to work with the M7 due to AE. Highly recommended. I see no reason to go with a meterless camera as your only body unless you're into retro.

<br>- Some mentioned the Hexar-RF. Great camera, everything the M7 should have been, high SS, AE, winder, etc. Mine had focusing problems with the longer lenses, so it was sold. It was also prone to having the RF knocked out of alignment with moderate bumps, which cost me $180/each to get fixed! (One was from my car seat to the floor, not very far, and onto carpet.)

<br><br>

Lenses

<br>- Leica lenses are generally better, but 2-5x the cost of competitors. YMMV, but I'm firmly convinced that Hexanons and Voigtlanders are far better values unless you're anal, rich, or very, very demanding. (I have some of all three brands)

<br>

<br>28: The Voigtlander Ultron 28/1.9 is a great lens. Not the equal to te 28 Summicron, but very good wide open. Build quality OK, similar to 50 Nokton.

<br>35: 35/2 Summicron in various forms is always great. The new 35/2.5 Color Skopar PII is supposed to be very similar to the pre-asph Summicron. No personal experience with it.

<br>50: 50/2 Summicrons (post collapsible) are the standard. 50/2 Hexanon equals it in performance and bulid-quality, IME, at $250 used. The 50/1.5 Nokton is superb, esp for $2-300 used, highly recommended. Be aware that the Nokton's build quality and finish aren't up to Leica standards and get ugly quick.

<br>90: Elmart 90/2.8 or Voigtlander 90/3.5 Apo-Lanthar, $800 vs. $400. IMO, stay with shorter lenses until you feel you need a 90.

<br><br>

Skip

[dan flanders]

I have read numerous complaints that the standard 50mm Leica lenses do not focus close enough for the satisfaction of some users. I have also heard that some Leica lenses can be tweaked to focus closer. To that end I examined the insides of a couple of Leica mounts I have salvaged: one from a damaged collapsible Summicron and one from a rigid Summicron whose lens cell has been alienated. It appears that both could be altered to provide additional close focusing by milling off a portion of an internal flange. To determine just how much additional travel the RF mechanism would tolerate I mounted a Nikkor 50/1.4 and rotated it past the 'hump' into the close focus mode and observed the focus through the RF window. It indicated that the lens would focus down to 2.5 feet, verified by actual measurement. This test was repeated a dozen times just to test its accuracy. I have not yet developed the film test so I cannot say that the results are final. However I believe it is safe to state that the RF (in this case it was a IIF) will indicate focus below three feet an possibly down to two and a half, IF the focusing mount has been tweaked. I did not attempt, nor do I recommend attempting, to tweak the RF linkage itself!

[dan flanders]

My apologies for getting the previous into the wrong thread. I was interrupted and put it into the wrong window. Mea culpa!

[robert_meyers]

Thanks for all your answers! I felt I needed to make a few clarifications.

 

First, I am selling my EOS for the M-Mount camera. Not my G. I just want to look into replacing it as well, as I do not like carrying extra cameras. And I want a little more finite focus control.

 

I need TTL flash. At least for one camera. I use it for on-site stock.

 

Later I will probably pick up something like an M3 for extreme cold weather trips (hitting Antarctica in 2 years). I also have the cold weather battery pack for the G1.

 

I own an E-1, and I would not trade it for anything short of a 1DII. :)

 

Please keep the commentary coming if people are willing!

 

Thanks!

 

PS-

Jay, quality is the only real concern. If you have ever used a Contax G1 you have used some of the best lenses in the world (go to any tests or reviews, or better yet, make some enlargements). If you have ever used an E-1, you have used one hell of a camera (have tried many). The Digilux 2 was looked at? an EVF? Are you kidding? I have considered an RD-1 but they are yet to be released.

[jay_.]

<<If you have ever used an E-1, you have used one hell of a camera >>

 

Right. That's why nobody's buying the 1D-MKII or the 1DS or the 10D or the DRebel or the Nikon D100 or D70 and everybody else is selling theirs and there's a 2 year backorder on the E-1. Right.

[patricks]

try/borrow/rent a Contax G2 first if you do like the Contax/Zeiss glass.

 

if you are looking for 'grab shots' and want leica (otherwise a Konica Hexar RF kit would be an excellent place to start) the M7 is excellent, but as you know you are looking at beaucoup cash if you are planning to replace your modern zeiss glass with modern leica glass.

[patricks]

also, i'd wait a while and see how you like that E-1, chances are that you won't be shooting as much film as you planned...

[robert_meyers]

<<Right. That's why nobody's buying the 1D-MKII or the 1DS or the 10D or the DRebel or the Nikon D100 or D70 and everybody else is selling theirs and there's a 2 year backorder on the E-1. Right.>>

I have never seen a two year backorder on anything, sure as hell none of the cameras mentioned. 1DS I wanted, but I would only use for portraits, 1DII I would have killed for, but I have saved $2100 in film processing since buying the E-1? instead of waiting for the camera that kept being delayed. 10D, D70, D100? your joking right? They do not stand up to the E-1 in anything but high ISO (where the Dreb and the 10D clean everyone?s clock). I compared them all. Actually, the biggest competitor in my selection was the D2H? the E-1 seemed more sure.

 

Now back to the subject at hand:)

 

I shoot about 30 rolls a month now? a big drop. So there is a big drop (was over 100). I love the Zeiss glass? and hope I find some good comparatives. EIR is one of the biggest wants BTW.

[donald_macklin]

Hi Robert,

You may already be aware of this,but I'll mention it anyway.CameraQuest has a very

interesting lens adapter fo the E-1 at this address.....http://www.cameraquest.com/

adaptnew.htm#Olympus%20E-1%20%204/3%20Lens%20Adapters

It allows one to use Leica R series primes with the E-1.Most interesting I thought.

Cheers,Don.

[melvin_bressler]

Robert:

 

The CLE is a great camera, but it is not compatible with all Leica lenses. Besides, repairs (fixing, not cleaning adjusting, etc.) is almost impossible because there are no parts.

 

I too own Canon SLRs, and an M4 & M7, but other than vacations, more and more, I use the M's. The M7 grows on you, and long term that could be your best bet.

 

Happy snaps.