bounce flash as good as elaborate expensive lighting?

[douglas_meeuwsen]

Great forum for a beginer like me!......I have been reading all of these posts for some time

now....and looking at examples whenever they are included. I have a minolta A1 digital

and the 5600 bounce flash. It took some figuring out at first, but now I seem to be getting

super lighting results by bouncing the flash from diferent angles off the ceiling, and

corners and side and rear walls. Results that are at least as good as many or most of the

examples that i see of fancy expensive lighting riggs. I am a musician, and most of my

flash shots are in recording studios, or indoor stages, or clubs with ceilings etc..... is this

my imagination? It seems as if bounce flash is rarely discussed. Is that because you cant

really rely on have walls or a roof? I'll keep reading and learning!...... Here is an Example of

a simple point and shoot shot with the flash coming pointed into a corner.....Thanks, Doug

M

[jeffrey_abelson]

"Results that are at least as good as many or most of the examples that i see of fancy expensive lighting riggs."

 

Results come from the photographer not the gear. Your photo is nice, though the eyes could use some life with some catch lights perhaps and maybe a bit softening of the shadow.<div></div>

[ellis_vener_photography]

With lighting it is only the end results that count. W hen "The Band" recorded their best

set of music --"the Band"-- Levon Helm used an old drum kit he bought for $20.00 in a

pawn shop in L.A.

[gary_woodard]

Ellis, Big Pink

[johnmarkpainter]

DOug,

 

It's all about control. I prefer to shoot with no flash at all. Last week I did a shoot outside

using a white background....looked way better than studio lighting.

 

jmp

[jim_gifford]

<<Is that because you cant really rely on have walls or a roof?>>

 

Well, yes... especially for folks shooting color film, because then the wall or roof should be both nearby and white.

 

If you have a good surface against which to bounce light, the results can be awfully nice (as you are discovering).

 

Be well,

[brooks short]

"Bounce light as good as elaborate expensive lighting?"

 

It certainly can be if the walls and ceilings are neutral in color and are luckily placed close/far enough to your subject and located where they will create the bounce light effect that you want.

 

The problemn is that is not usually the case.

 

If you want complete control of your lighting then you set up your own lighting and fill cards, scrims, softboxes etc to achieve the lighting effect and quality that you need.

[douglas_meeuwsen]

Brooks Shorts Writes......

 

<<<It certainly can be if the walls and ceilings are neutral in color and are luckily placed

close/far enough to your subject and located where they will create the bounce light effect

that you want.

 

The problemn is that is not usually the case.>>>

 

Now hold on a moment.....The few times I have been to a portrait studio, there all kinds of

bright lights, umbrellas, reflectors, etc,......and four white walls and a low ceiling, and the

room was not big.....then the pictures were really uninterestingly lighted, actually pretty

bad pictures. This seems like it might be situation where the gear sells the photographer.

In other words the client gets fooled into thinking that the photogarpher must good,

because he has all this cool gear. Isnt it in fact always the case that that in a studio you

have walls, a ceiling, neutral paint, etc? It seems that a studio then should the place where

you actually dont need tons of lighting gear. Sometimes there are questions in this forum,

about cheap lighting, and the cheap solutions are really not that cheap. At least they are

way more expensive than one good flashgun that spins around to bounce from any angle.

Very nice forum. Thanks again, Doug M

[brooks short]

Douglas,

 

If the portraits taken in the studio that you've mentioned were lit poorly then that's the kind of work that photographer does. It's got little to do with a surplus or lack of equipment and space, and more to do with the lack of skills and talent of that photographer.

 

There are many types of photgraphic studios. Some are small and some are large. Some are just for portraits and some are for more commercial work.

 

In my studio I shoot commercial, food, still-life and people. I have 14 ft. ceilings and my shooting wall is 30 ft. wide. I have a line of sight of at least 40 ft. if I need it. The only time that I shoot bounced light is when I'm lighting an interior. I never use bounced light as the source of lighting on location or in the studio for a portrait.

 

Not everyone shoots 35mm format either. In fact, I haven't shot 35mm for a job in over 12 years. Nor have I used an on-camera flash for many years. Those aren't appropriate tools for the kind of work that I do.

 

Using medium format and large format cameras often requires a lot of light. Sometimes I have to use three 4800ws power packs to get enough depth of field for f-32-45. Often tons of light are used in the studio not less.

 

There's a world of commercial photography out there which has little if anything to do with the techniques, studio size and equipment that you saw in the small portrait studio that you've mentioned.

 

I am glad that you've been enjoying this Lighting Forum. Look at the previous lighting themes which are kept in the Administration section of this forum. There are a lot of good technique and equipment discussions to be found there.

[twmeyer]

There is also the issue raised by the subjective qualifier "good". You can bounce light off blue walls and be happy with the results, if you're shooting for a more radical audience (like anybody under 25 years old). If you're trying to duplicate every effect that can be made by a well equipped studio and a highly skilled photographer by bouncing a 283, you will be disappointed. If you're making portraits of musicians for promotional purposes, you can be very happy with very little equipment. It really depends on your audience. I heard some music that was recorded in some guys attic on an old reel to reel 4 track. It sounded really great. Could Steely Dan have recorded "Aja" under the same conditions? Why try? Limitations can be a creative spark... t <p>And I don't think your example needs any lighter shadows, but a brighter catchlight would be nice.<div></div>

[douglas_meeuwsen]

Thanks for the large amount of great info!......I am just a beginner like I said, trying to

figure out where to spend my next 300 bucks or so. I see some guys spending a lot on

lights...I have even heard that unless you have a lot of lighting gear, you should just stick

available light, or be interested primarily shooting outdoors. I hated using flash, and still

hate the look of my minolta 5600 pointing strait at the subject. So much that always toss

out those shots. That is what I really need to figure out next I guess! All my shots are just

documentaion of performances or real life snaps etc, and an occasional wedding. I am just

learning, so I read a LOT about photography. I read about 2hours a day at the Borders

Coffee shop, every single photo magazine (I have 4 hours off in the middle of my workday)

I'll never be a pro, but the prints I give away I want to look cool......thanks again, Doug M

[twmeyer]

If I could only have one lighting "tool" for making portraits, it would be a Lumedyne 200ws pack with one head, a light stand and an umbrella. You can really do alot with that, especially if there's no other light "available"... t<div></div>

[johnmarkpainter]

DOuglas,

 

Perhaps your next purchase should be a Reflector and a Stand to hold it. Check out the

"5-in-1" kits that have White, GOld, Silver, Black and Diffusion. If your Flash is bright

enough, bouncing off a large Reflector does wonders.

 

It gives you control over the color of the Bounce (White, Silver, Gold) and the Location and

angle. Doesn't take long to set up either.

 

I have a Sunpak 120J Flash (very strong and has a big rechargeable battery) that I use for

those kinds of jobs (quick musician shots).

 

jmp

[johnmarkpainter]

Here's one<div></div>

[dave_yuhas]

Doug - Why don't you try using a white card attached to the flash to bounce some light into the eyes? I've pretty much given up on ceiling/wall bounce light and use a Lumiquest 80-20 bounce kit with the white insert and diffusion panel. I get very nice results, and I have the same flash as yours.

[mlhostetter]

Douglas,

I am a beginner too, with not alot to spend on expensive equiptment. There are alot of good ideas posted here and I wanted to throw my question in here also as it runs along the same lines. I have several bounce flashes and slave units that I am playing with and I came across this diagram. Maybe it will help give you some ideas. I plan on trying it out myself soon. Hope this helps and I wonder what everyone thinks about this tactic of lighting?

Marylou<div></div>

[elliot_n]

'bounce flash as good as elaborate expensive lighting?'

 

Sure - it's often better.

 

I shoot people in their environments, and whilst I always have various light modifiers

to hand (softboxes, umbrellas, diffusion caps etc.), I will often choose to bounce a

flash head off a ceiling or wall. The light is often more natural looking that way - it

gets to bounce around the room a bit so you have ready made fill light.

[david_prouty]

I am a big fan of bounce light! In some instances it can replace studio equipment in the hands of someone who knows lighting fairly well. I will post a shot I did of the only schmuck I could get to pose for me... ME! No comments on the subject! :-) This is two Sunpak 544's with the hairlight on a radio slave. The main is on camera. The hairlight is on a stand bounced into the corner of the room and the main is bunced off the wall and ceiling, to the left of the subject! (If I had more hair... eh hem... I could have boosted the hairlight to get more seperation from the blackness of the background!) Would be pretty good to use for a bride and/or groom (or anybody) in a pinch! No big expensive lights, just inexpensive flash units.

[chris m., central florida]

I've been using off camera lighting for about 6-7 months now, and the results are often blowing away what I used to get with bounce lighting. But in a rush, like at a fast paced wedding, I get very good results bouncing a single flash off of a white cieling. The lighting is a bit flat, but still beautiful.

 

I have two tips for you. Somebody mentioned using a small card to bounce light into your subject's eyes. Definitely try this. Aim your flash at the cieling as you normally would, but use a rubber band to attach a bright white 3X5 card to the back of your flash head, then bend it forward sligthly into the path of the flash. It will bounce a small amount of light forward into your subject's eyes, and you will still get plenty of light bounced from the cieling. The Lumiquest 80/20 bounce kit works well, as mentioned by one of the other photographers that responded, although I find my 25 cent rig worked just as well. Nikon flash units have a built in pull out white card that works extremely well. Some photographers with newer Nikon flash units don't even know it exists or what it's for.

 

Next, try getting a cheap light stand ($25), a Sunpak 522, 544 or 555 flash unit ($125 at the most used) or a Vivtar 285 (very reasonably priced) and a white or silver umbrella. Bounce the flash into the umbrella, and you will suddenly find yourself with more options in case you don't have a decent cieling.

 

Good luck!