Ebay Good or bad to buy Camer equipment

[daniel_kim4]

I have just purchased a canon f-1 on ebay labeled in excellent

condition. Some people have just warned me about buying items on ebay.

I would like to hear other peoples opinions. This person lead me to

KEH.com ANyone else had any false description problems with ebay? I

thought the feedback scoring was relatively reliable.

[peter_evans4]

The feedback system is a poor joke; it's mostly "I'll be nice to you if

you'll be nice to me." Look at the comments; a typical one is "Smooth

transaction!!!!!" -- why does the mere "smoothness" of a transaction

merit five exclamation points? Perhaps the participants aren't

exaggerating after all -- other possibilities are that they're

eleven-year-olds, or retards.

[NetR]

I'm sorry, but "Ebay good or bad" just isn't a good question. Ebay can be good OR bad. It depends on what the item is and who is selling it. It depends whether it is new or used. It depends on whather you know enough about the item to ask the right questions. It depends on the person selling knowing enough to be able to give you good answers. It depends on you knowing what a reasonable price is so you don't bid too high, or get sucked in by a crook offering to sell something cheap just to get your money. Yes, KEH is good, but there are occasional complaints about them too. However, they are a substantial business and do offer a money back option. KEH sell on Ebay too, so they have a good feel for prices. Regards, Ross

[Jochen_S]

My personal cheat / fraud / junk experience: I got a used pro-body at a local store, one shutter curtain broke after a few films, electronics trouble became quite usual with it. There were other cases a well looking 135mm whos aperture blades hooked of a fter less than 1000 shots, A zoom with the same problem a old rangefinder dieing before 1st film, a historic folder not living long, little pinholes in bellows, rangemeters and shutters needing proper CLAs and on and on. I suppose the worst was my 90mm macro which shouldn't be used stoped down further than f8.

From this base I decided to risk not much. - If I happen to get a Zoom for 25 Euro it's cheap enough to risk the money.

There are lots of honorable sellers like me and my girlfriend on eBay. - Think pessimistic before you risk something! If somebody sells "Grandpas #-spelled wrong, seeming to be Camera, with many levers which I don't dare to touch..." at least anything will be sticky and surely it doesn't work. A good new camera, buy emediately for 80% or less market price it 'll be fraud.

My own policy is: No mailorder above 125$ (Germany is small!) and never forget risks and shipping costs when figuring out my bids. Sometimes it's neccessary to teach sellers to describe their stuff after asking questions.

I got some backdropholder, historic 5x7" fieldcamera, CF-card, filmholders, slidemounts and darkroomstuff yet. Most sellers were very nice persons. O.K. I had to wait damned long till a seller of boots became willing to do the trade, once 1 sheet-film adaptor among 6 plateholders missed, but that didn't really count. My girlfriend sometimes got junk, but never had trouble during arguing and getting some money back. - But I suppose this might become worse when it'll be about weeks- or month wages and no more about peanuts.

In some cases, especially freak corners like LF eBay is much more expensive than local shops, who have no market to sell.

I suppose eBay isn't worse than the rest of the world.

[ron c sunshine coast,qld,a]

Frankly the feedback system is pathetic.As mentioned above it's mostly overblown comments that mean nothing of value.I sincerly believe that most buyers give positive feedback out of relief that everything actually worked out!!

<BR>Basically the best way to buy on ebay is to stick to the mid sized specialist sellers that only auction their best stuff .

<P>Look up past threads that deal with scams

<br>There are several basic characteristics that scam auctions have

[barmijo]

I've bought and sold well over 100 items on eBay. It's a very valuable resource because it allows me to cycle through equipment that I'm not using, freeing up money for new equipment. Further, I often find items on eBay that simply aren't availible from any other source.

 

Only once have I felt I was taken; I bought a lens described as "like new" that turned out to have been used by a college school newspaper staff. The only way I found out about that was because of the return address. I bought a new lens, figuring I'd learned a lesson, and resold the used one on eBay (with the appropriate disclaimers). Much to my surprise, I actually made money on the sale.

 

I typically look to eBay for items that are no longer made or are not stocked by major retailers because they're not popular. That's because most mainstream items still in production get bid up close to the price I can get the item from Adorama or B&H. Good examples of the kind of items I buy on eBay are large format lenses, novoflex bellows and some panoramic gear.

 

Over the years I've developed a few habits to avoid rip-offs. First, always email the seller with questions about any expensive item. Be sure to make the questions intelligent and relevant. If you get no response or the response in any way fails to address your questions - don't bid. Second, never bid on any item that doesn't include pictures detailed enough to make out the condition of the product. Third, do you homework; know the value of the item, what previous auctions have gone for, how much shipping will be, and what payment methods are accepted. Fourth, NEVER bid on anything sold "buy it now" that's too cheap - and if you do NEVER send the payment right away; wait to see if eBays fraud department delists the auction in the next 48 hours. Fifth, look for sellers that have some history; ratings that go back months if not years. Sixth, read the descriptions VERY carefully and don't bid on items that have short incomplete descriptions.

 

Best of luck!

[h._p.]

Personally, I find eBay a good resource. I've made a fair few trades, both buying and selling, and so far the only bad experiences have been a couple of non-paying bidders, luckily on things that weren't worth a lot anyway. The items both sold when re-listed so no big problem.

 

I always try to give sensible feedback. I did buy a camera from someone which was faulty. He refunded my money straight away and I left him positive feedback saying that there had been a problem which he sorted quickly - the sort of feedback which is usefull, I think.

 

Someone mentioned Germany, above. That represents a big problem, certainly if you're in the UK. They all want wired transfer or direct debit payments which cost a bomb from Britain. Haven't they got Paypal there?

[cyn14060]

I have recently bought several things from E-bay and have had mostly positive experiences. I made a mistake in purchasing a so called "professional" flash but, for less than $20 I learned a good lesson. Guess the moral of my story is this: if it sounds too good to be true- lookout.

[Andrew in Austin]

Ebay is anything, but risk free. If you are buying a camera, email the seller early to see if there is an inspection period.

 

Descriptions are euphemisms. Mint means maybe the item is not battered and tattered. Excellent means normal wear and tear.

 

With regards to feedback, if someone has a couple of thousand feedbacks, with no negatives, then that means something. If some has at least a few hundred transactions without a negative, then it tells you that the seller is at the very least capable of constructive conflict resolution when things do go awry.

 

Finally, other than a large camera show, where else can you find a used Rolleifix on the cheap?

[markci]

If you're fairly careful most transactions will work out just fine. However, once in a while you'll run into a total loon. You pays your money, you takes your chances.

[ebogaerts]

I think ebay is an excellent resource if you're searching out camera lenses and camera accessories. I have a highly dubious and cautious opinion about buying camera bodies over ebay - I'd rather have a warranty of some form on camera bodies. Lenses I am open to considering, but I generally follow a good strategy like the advice mentioned above.

 

The big problem I have with ebay is that it's all too often a complete freakshow, with bidders bidding on items well above market value. I even saw a used item that sold for three times what you could buy it for from B&H brand new.

 

Sometimes the price is sooo close to what you would pay for it through KEH or B&H that it's just not worth it to me to make the gamble. On rare occasions I have netted some pretty nice deals, but those aren't all that common, unfortunately.

[berg_na]

eBay is a great place to find used equipment, but you need to be selective about which auctions to bid on. Check the feedback record of the seller, the actual remarks may not be very useless, but I'd avoid sellers with too many negative feedbacks. Ask specific questions about the quality of the item if the description, or the posted images are not clear. You can get a feel for how responsive or trustworthy the seller is in his replies. I also prefer to pay with a credit card so that I can have some recourse in case things get nasty. KEH prices are usually much higher than what you can get on eBay. If you're patient, you can find some great deals there.

[wyverndude]

eBay is great, but you have to go into it with your eyes open and use common sense and do your homework.

<P>

Many people don't understand how eBay works, but they're in there sniping, multi-bidding, overbidding, and avoiding Dutch and Reserve auctions and Buy It Now listings anyway -proof positive that many people are <i>actively participating</i> on eBay with<i>out</i> understanding what they're doing.

<P>

The benefit to the rest of us is that many times, these people create bargains for those of us who read a few of the many informative tutorials and Help pages eBay has, and understand how it works.

<P>Personally, I think that most of the bad stories come from some of these folks that get into it without understanding it -although admittedly, there are some outright scams (though again, many of those can likewise be avoided if you do your homework).

<P>I have well over 500+ eBay transactions; roughly 85% as Buyer, and I could literally count on one hand the number of transactions that went bad -and none where I didn't eventually get some kind of compensation.

<P>I also find it interesting that frequently when the subject of eBay comes up on this site, there are those who bash eBay, and recommend that you only buy from KEH, Adorama, or B&H -proving that they know not of what they speak... since all three of these well known, reputable used camera dealers sell on eBay. And they're in good company.

<P>Yes, the feedback system is pretty reliable. Try to stick with sellers who have a high number of feedbacks and ratings over 97%, and you should be OK. High feedback percentages are the norm; anything below 97% is cause for concern. <P>Look around for a while and get comfortable with the system, read feedbacks, look at Bid History on completed items, buy low-dollar items until you're familiar with the way things work.

<P>And, if you're gonna eBay: do PayPal.

[awahlster]

Over 1000 auctions as buyer and seller on ebay and the long and short of it. I'M VERY VERY VERY Happy I use ebay. I deal about 75% in Canon Fd mount camera equipment and have found great deals and things I would have never been able to buy if it were not for ebay.

 

In 1000+ autions I have had to leave Negitive feedback maybe six times Neutral about the same. I have felt ripped of only four or five time and never for an item worth or costing more then $25.00. I have had to return some stuff a couple of times I even got my shipping costs back.

 

If you go into ebay with your head on straight and ask the seller questions you will be fine. If something is to good to be true PASS IT UP everything you want will be on ebay agian.

 

As to the Nay sayers it has been my observation that they have only been involved in a very few transactions and base their comments on a tiny sample.

[robert_davis2]

Ebay isn't for kids,the naive, the trusting or the ill informed. You need to be able to smell crap and know how to take basic common sense steps to protect yourself. I'll see people paying outrageous amounts for stuff. People getting into bidding wars for fairly common stuff. People not noticing the pictures don't match the text. I'm not a big believer in just following the rating percentages. If it's a seller I haven't dealt with in the past I will try and read the negative comments. Some times the negative comments tell you the seller is a crook other times they prove the buyer is an idiot. I treat Ebay the same way I would a flea market. I assume the only person worried about my interests is me.

[chris_henry1]

I think Ebay is a great place to sell gear and can also be a good place to buy gear, if you are careful. The same failure to apply street sense and caution when buying from companies that advertise in the back of photo magazines can also get you into trouble on Ebay. If something looks too good to be true, it probably is. If you are buying a high-value item, expect photos of the very item you are buying, not some stock photos. Ask questions; the seller should be able to answer them in detail and also provide more photos than are posted. Expect a reasonably prompt reply to your questions (48 hours if more than two days before the auction ends, but don't expect answers an hour before auctions close; most people don't live in front of their computers). Finally, if it isn't right, just don't bid. Most tales of woe are from buyers who haven't got the discipline to walk away from something that looks too good to be true.

[daniel_kim4]

Thanks for all the input guys. I love the diverse Input i get from this forum that I am able to look at several different POV to come to my own conclusion. I have one additional question. Many have stated ask the seller relevant questions about the item you are bidding on. My question is if the seller states that the product is MINT or makes several statements like don't worry Its perfect and will work great. Can you hold the seller liable according to his statements/claims he made throught the email correspondence? thanks.

[wyverndude]

<I>My question is if the seller states that the product is MINT or makes several statements like don't worry Its perfect and will work great. Can you hold the seller liable according to his statements/claims he made throught the email correspondence?</I> <P>

Yes and no. :)

<P>

Main Point: In practical terms, you can only hold a seller liable for as much as they are going to stand behind their statement, and a good Seller will. If you've got a bad Seller, it won't matter what, when, or how they said it. Although there is dispute resolution and arbitration, and eBay <I>will</I> get involved and try to help you, it will need to be something pretty solid. Mint/not Mint isn't usually going to be one of those 'solid' situations.

<P>

Because they are concerned about their feedback ratings, responsible Sellers describe conservatively, tend to stay away from subjective descriptions, and pretty much never say something is "Mint". Any seller that tries too hard to "talk up" the item is either naive or dishonest.

<P>

If I got a reply to an email where the Seller said: "don't worry it's perfect and will work great" that would be a red flag.<P>

But, spend time browsing listings; you'll get a feel for what a good auction listing should "sound" like.

[ebogaerts]

*Genuinely* "mint" items are rare, but of course "mint" is probably one of the most-used terms on ebay.

 

Mint, to me, means absolutely flawless in every way possible, and that includes not even a smudge or one marr of any kind. It would basically mean an item that was kept inside its original carton and perhaps used once or twice. Of course, there are much more liberal definitions of the term "mint", but that's my personal criteria.

 

One of my most disliked terms on ebay is "Minty". What is "Minty" suppose to mean?

[dan_fromm2]

A fine question asked by Eric Bogaerts.

 

The artifical mint flavoring used in those horrible candies with white pasty filling and ersatz chocolate covering is minty.

 

What gets me is the sellers who translate what I'd call "unusable" into "very good condition." In fact, one of them got me not long ago.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[douglas_green1]

I would add that 97% is a terrible feedback rating, if it relates to anyone with more than a single negative. IMHO, I would never deal with someone having more than a single negative, in less than 100 transactions, and less than 99%, or preferably 99.5% for those with greater than that.

 

Personally, I have over 900 rated transactions, with only a single neg that was left in error (and the buyer's comment reflects this).

 

How does one get feedback like this? Not by being flawless - nobody is, but by dealing in good faith. If I ever have a buyer that is disappointed, I will allow them to return the item for a refund, no questions asked. Unless I am sure that the buyer is acting in bad faith, I will refund shipping costs as well. It happens that sometimes minor flaws, or even significant flaws DO get past even reputable sellers. The validation of whether they are any good or not comes from how they respond to their own errors, or differences of opinion. Do they do the right thing, and accept a return for a refund? If they do, they are worth dealing with on ebay. I'll never deal with someone who explicitly sells an item AS IS, unless it is fully disclosed that the item is broken for parts or repair.

 

Ebay is only as good as the integrity of the seller you are dealing with. Never count on ebay to protect you in a transaction - their protections are not worth squat. Count only on the communications from and proven record of the seller. There's no other way.

 

BTW, if you KNOW what you are doing as a buyer, I'd estimate that at least 95% of your transactions will clearly be bargains, and no more than 1-2% will clearly be duds, with the other 3-4% falling in the grey area. So, when buying on ebay, be sure you are saving enough money to essentially self insure yourself against the 2-5% of the transactions that aren't so good. For me, this means I won't buy on ebay unless I am saving at least 25%, and preferably more, vs. a known reputable dealer like KEH.

[ebogaerts]

Dan -

 

That's another situation that I've dealt with before on ebay. Or, more specifically, it's when a seller has a great, fantastic, fabulous, fully functioning item for sale... "as is".

 

I wonder if those sellers who refer to their items as "minty" are munching on candy as they list their items? :)

[keithsnyder]

I've bought many items in several categories, including camera equipment. I've had no problems, and was able to afford stuff I couldn't justify otherwise. The only time someone sent the item quite slowly e-mailed me to let me know what the delay had been, and when they were sending it.

 

I wouldn't buy an item that cost thousands off there, but it's been a good experience all around for me.

[dan_fromm2]

Eric, I don't know about the use of "as is."

 

I've sold a moderate number of items on eBay, all accurately described. Some of them were very, very nice, others were garbage and pointedly described as such. And some, e.g., a heap of 38/4.5 Biogons that were useless as sold but could be made usable, were very pointedly described that way. I even used the word paperweight in the Biogons' listings.

 

I've never had a complaint from a buyer, so don't know for sure what my policy on returns actually is. I've never stated it.

 

I sold everything so far "as is." I'm not sure why, but I've always done it. And my results so far indicate that I'm probably not much of a crook.

 

So I don't see "Great condition, sold as is" as a red flag.

 

What I do see that's alarming is potential buyers' profound fear of being taken that's manifest in this discussion. I'm not sure it is well-founded, but that's an empirical question.

 

I see two classes of risks in buying via eBay. Desireable item, won't arrive at all or will arrive unusable or needing expensive service. Apparently interesting item of unknown desireability, may not be what's wanted.

 

I've gambled both ways. Have so far lost twice on the first kind. One package that contained a 40/4.5 Luminar was eaten by the post office. And one lens wasn't remotely as good as the seller claimed. Haven't yet lost on the second, in fact some of my best finds have been items that I wasn't quite sure what they were. As for example, a 100/6.3 Neupolar. Now I know, and I've very happy I decided to buy it so I could figure out what it was.

 

On the other hand, I've never gambled thousands of dollars on one item via eBay. My biggest purchase so far via eBay was a 47/5.6 SA for a bit under $400.

 

I gather that scam artists prefer the rare big kill to a constant stream of little ones, so perhaps the hopeful folks who try to buy big ticket items far under market are at greater risk than I am.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[ebogaerts]

Dan -

 

I guess a better way to put it is that there's a difference between whether or not a seller is willing to back up the items that they have for sale.

 

I just equate items for sale "as is" as "defective" or "parts". It seems condradictory to state that an item is in such great shape, yet to not even offer a non-doa warranty, as is the sale is final, no returns no matter what. I just steer clear of sellers who won't even say "If the item doesn't arrive to you in the condition stated, contact me." But I am glad that you've had a lot of success and are one of those sellers who gives full disclosure of equipment.