davidweaverphoto Posted July 5, 2004 Share Posted July 5, 2004 Just FYI - No Slam on Brian. I found this bit from him in a reply about the changes to anonymous ratings in another forum and felt it an important insight in all the discussion being taken on by paying partons of PN...and a few others too:<BR><I>"We're monitoring Gallery participation and looking at the effects of the change, and that is pretty much all that really matters -- not what some people write in the forums."</I><P>I am suggesting that those that do not like the anonymous rating scheme just STOP RATING AND COMMENTS.</P><P>I find it interesting that the two protest photos I posted for critiques (ones that strongly request that a comment and rating number be left in the comment section) have earned those protest critique posts the largest number of responses of anything I've posted here as well as a very high number of very reasonable comments. Given Brian's comment reposted above I can only think I am doing greater harm by generating more comments and participation by posting those protest items.</P><P>I will not critique or rate any photos for a while and I would recommend this tact to everyone else that dislikes the destruction of comminuty that is brought about when we have anonymous ratings.</P>Cheers,<br>David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidweaverphoto Posted July 5, 2004 Author Share Posted July 5, 2004 Typos: Patrons not partons.<BR>Correction: Brian's comments are from this forum. It was in another post in the Site Feedback forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venicia_l Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 David,<p> I think you need to relax a little. If you are implying that Brian's comment means he is doing something wrong or sneaky, I interpret it completely the opposite. Of course he's going to watch the actual performance of the site and gauge his moves by that. Of course he's not going to make changes based on the demands in the forum. This is NOT a democracy. It's a business that he needs to run the best way he can. For every ten posts here, there are 15 demands for yet another way to run the site.<p> He had to do SOMEthing. The whole rating thing had (has) gotten out of hand. Images make it into the highest ranks of Top Photos for no reason other than the photographer has friends. Yes, a lot of the images that make it are good. But that's not why they make it. And the one's that don't deserve to be there make other contributors feel like they don't want to play in this sandbox any longer.<p> Protest photos? Destruction of the community? Come on. Why are you taking this so seriously. If anything was destroying a sense of community here, it was the elements Brian is trying to change. Why should anyone who wants to give an honest critique have to endure the scorn of the photographer and his/her "supporters" when a rating of less than perfect is suggested?<p> Personally, I think he should end ratings completely. But whatever the rules he settles on, it won't make one iota of difference to the field of photography.<p> VL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pradeep1 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I know this is a bit off topic, but i seem to agree with Brian, when he says that they are not bothered with what we say in the forums, take for example 2 posts i posted in the last few days reporting that a link does not work, and i have not had any reply from the team, nor has the problem been rectified. you can find my post(s) here http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008jq0 Brian, I know you are busy but this is a bug on the site and i think it should be rectified asap, as it stops us from using a good feature of the site. Brian, no offence meant, but why are you not very bothered about presentations?? :) cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 I am closing out my porfolios and most likely my account too. When I first visited this site at the end of 2002, I thought it was the finest example of an interactive photographic community that I had ever seen. There I was, logged in FOR FREE, able to see great works of photography, able to ask questions and GET ANSWERS, able to tap into a source of information that was being provided by similarly minded people who enjoyed being part of this Community. After a short time, in January 2003, I decided to support the site and become a subscriber. I did not NEED to do that. I WANTED to do that. I believed in the Community mission of this site. As time went on, I considered making a greater financial contribution. But that has all evaporated. Members, such as myself, who attempted to use some modicum of tact when commenting on a beginer's photographic efforts, were refered to as "Sugarcoaters". Members, who quite naturally would establish a rapport with others, were refered to as "Cronies". In that same comment that you referenced, Mottershead states that the change was not made "... for the sake of the people who are currently participating. Those people presumably liked the system...". The change was made "...for the sake of people who might participate if the system were different, in the hopes that more would arrive...". In other words, forget about the people that were good members, who LIKED the way the system worked, and who regularly contributed to the community. He will sacrifce them to attract new members. And he knows that enough of the old members will tolerate the change and eventually accept it (David, you yourself say that your protest will be temporary). For the ones that do not,well...there are plenty more where they came from. The administration apparently feels that the community spirit is expendable. This is not the site that I originally visited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barefoot Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Well said. Now, will you get back in your pram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Pradeep, did you notice that it was just a long weekend in the US? On weekends, I only spend a few hours per day on the site instead of all my time, so things like bug-reports get postponed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pradeep1 Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Brian, accept my aplogies, i didnt realise the 4th of July weekend. Its just that i found replies from you and others on other posts but no acknowledgement that this bug will be fixed. Any case hope you had a good long weekend. cheers! and waiting for the problem to get fixed so that i can get more people to see my presentation :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougityb Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 It's been said a bazillion times that ratings are for the site, and comments are for the photographers. Therefore, let the site do whatever it wants to the ratings software because you can still build your community by way of the comments: If you want to build a community with another member, leave a comment, or follow up on their comment. If you want a member to include you in his or her community, leave a comment. If someone rates but doesn't comment, then they don't really want your community to begin with, so why bother? Besides, you can still access anyone who rates your work, the only difference is that you can't tell who dropped the 1, and who dropped the 7. Why is that such a big deal? Seems like it wouldn't take too much intelligence to figure out who the low raters are by looking at their averages, and their comments on other photos. Seems to me the change is designed to decrease the importance of ratings in the gallery, and to increase the importance of comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenry Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Indeed Doug!!<p> I just have one additional comment but <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2502625&size=lg"><b> someone can express it better than I ... </b></a><p> I'm taking a 2 weeks off ... see you end of July ... if you have to express clever idea ...<a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2502625&size=lg"> ... just tell her ... </a> she will transmit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 So Jacques, is that the way you really view the people you photograph? Your link depicts an old woman, who undoubtedly has worked harder than you ever will, and yet through whatever she has suffered she can still produce an honest smile. But you use her as a tool to ridicule another's opinion here. This say a lot for you. I'm crawling back into my pram now. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhenry Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 <i>"So Jacques, is that the way you really view the people you photograph?(..) But you use her as a tool to ridicule another's opinion here."</i><p> Obviously, you never visited much my quarters ... my meaning is precisely opposite... this woman is giving a lesson, or at least is reminding, to many of us about what life is about, and what's important... rather than 'ridiculize', my intention is to place things in perspective when I feel it's needed... and that is called the power of a picture... and that is most of what photography is about... <p> By the way I posted this picture and titled it before reading that thread... <br> indeed interesting to see how people react sometime... pondering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJT Posted July 6, 2004 Share Posted July 6, 2004 Well then, I did you an injustice. Sorry. It is probably why I don't do well photographing people. Have a good vacation. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spohn Posted July 7, 2004 Share Posted July 7, 2004 If ratings are to be ignored, but are necessary for site survival, why not just let the elves rate the photos and be done with it? That way the proxy response of "This is NOT a democracy" wouldn't even need to be tweaked when people complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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