Would you be offended by a "guest" photographer?

<p>I'm an amatuer photographer and I will be attending the wedding of a friend this weekend. The couple has a professional lined up to take photos and, if his work is anything like it was in a previous wedding I attended where he was providing services, it will be almost exclusively posed portrait photos. I don't know if he has a "sole photographer" clause or if he even has a contract with the bride (he's apparently a family friend). At the prior wedding I, while acting primarily as a bridesmaid, indulged in my photographic obsession (with the brides permission) and got some fairly nice photojournalistic and artsy B&Ws. The photographer didn't appear to have any problem with my presence or my snapping additional pictures, but that may be because I had another 'offificial' role to play.</p>

<p>I've offered to take some photos at this upcoming wedding just as a supplement to the professional's work. The bride thought it was a great idea and invited me to the rehearsal and backstage to take getting ready shots. I don't pretend to be a professional, nor would I ever attempt to steal shots from someone who was (i.e. taking shots over someone's shoulder) . I won't be using a flash and I won't be taking posed family photos (which appears to be his forte). I will take every precaution to stay out of his way as much as possible and have told my husband to keep an eye out to make sure I don't accidentally infringe on his territory. That being said, I will be bringing my DSLR and a couple of lenses. One will be a pretty hefty zoom lens (100-400) that I'm actually renting for a vacation later in the week (but which will be arriving early). </p>

<p>So the question is, would you be annoyed by my presence? Would you prefer it if I introduced myself at the beginning? How far can a guest go before they start treading on a professional's terrain? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>This subject seems to be getting brought up a lot lately. When I am a guest at a friends wedding, the bride and groom usually ask me to take lots of pictures. I don't do too many weddings - mainly portraits, boudoir, other events, trash the dress, etc.<br>

With that being said, when I am a guest at a wedding, I stay clear away from the professional photographer. Literally no where near him or her. The last thing I would ever want to do would be to offend another professional on a job. <br>

If I were you, take the time and get some great detail shots. While the pro is taking group shots, maybe take some shots of the guests during cocktail hour. <br>

I'm sure some other people will be able to chime in here :)</p>

<p>Rebecca,</p>

<p>Personally, I come to a wedding expecting that there will be guests with cameras. But generally speaking, I don't see guests with long white lenses. If I do... and they have not introduced themselves to me, I introduce myself to them. As long as they are not bothering me (in the sense that they are not constantly standing on my heels and shooting over my shoulder, or yelling for the bride and groom to look at them) then I don't mind. Or at least I tolerate it. If they become a nuisance, I mention it to them. If that doesn't do the trick, then someone in the bridal party tends to handle it. Point being, it would not hurt to introduce yourself. Especially if you've met the photographer before. If he knows you, knows what you're doing, and knows up front what your intentions are... he may not mind. Just be prepared in case he does mind. In that case, I would urge you to respect it. Point is, he is more likely to mind if you don't approach him early on, and just say hello, and let him know what you want to do.</p>

<p>I've gone as far as helping guests who have approached me, and respected the fact I am there to do a job while they are there to enjoy and celebrate by not distracting my subjects and not shooting their own copy of every one of my posed shots. I would rather have an ally for the evening rather than an enemy who is going to tell their friends and family what a horrible person I am because I didn't let them take pictures.</p>

<p>Hope that helps,<br>

Vlad</p>

<p>From time to time, I've been asked by friends to shoot as a guest at a wedding even though they have hired a professional photographer. My approach is to find the photographer early on, tell them that I will stay out of their way, and ask them to let me know if I fail to do that. And I do get out of the way before they tell me. I'm not interested in duplicating their work, but to get the shots they can't get, since they can't be everywhere. Although, as you said, you don't want to stand behind the pro photographer and shoot his set-ups, sometimes it can be good to get a shot that includes the pro. After all, he's part of the wedding. I've never had a pro get upset when I approached them in this way. Some who are worried about their sales might still not like it, though.</p>

 

<p>You made an offer to the bride, knew of these type of concerns, were apparently silent as to the bride about them and apparently didn't make any attempt to communicate with the photographer. You put the photographer in a situation where a bride may expect or ask them to accommodate you. Then they face the potentially uncomfortable prospect of responding to that. The story you gave us is that it was all your idea, you knew of these issues and charged full speed ahead anyway. That may be more "annoying" than anything you asked about.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I would contact the photographer before the wedding, since you already have had experience with him. You will have to use your judgement about what you say to him. Nobody can do that for you since it will depend on your intuition based on what you observed, and what enfolds during the conversation. I would start the conversation, though, explaining that you are calling him to find out if he has any comments for you re staying out of his way, etc. Who knows, maybe he will be relieved if you cover the candids.</p>

<p>I doubt an exclusivity clause would be in play here. You are a guest and not acting in any professional capacity and are not getting paid. You are also, by your description, going to stay out of his way.</p>

<p>I would question bringing the 100-400mm though. I can't think of too many uses for something in that range unless you are going to be in the balcony of a church wedding in a large church. A shorter, less large tele zoom would be OK though.</p>

<p>I don't get annoyed with guests who are simply enjoying their photography, no matter how fancy their gear is or isn't. I do get annoyed with guests who are deliberately 'being' the wedding photographer, whether they have any intention to do wedding photography professionally or not. There is definitely an aggressive vibe from these folks.</p>

<p>First, everyone, thanks for the quick responses.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You made an offer to the bride, knew of these type of concerns, were apparently silent as to the bride about them and apparently didn't make any attempt to communicate with the photographer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, in all honesty, I didn't know professionals had these kind of concerns when I first spoke to the bride. But on another, completely photo unrealted forum, I mentioned what I had done and started getting yelled at (virtually) for apparently not respecting the professional. I want it to be clear that this is not the case. I would never expect any professional to accomodate me. I found it surprising that a professional would have issues with a guest taking photos (provided they stayed out of the main photographer's way and didn't use flash), so I decided to ask about it on a board where I was likely to get some real professionals' responses about how not to step on anyone's toes while still getting some nice photos.</p>

<p>Oh, OK, the explanation suggested a different scenerio. So what are you going to do now?</p>

<p>That's why I suggested to stay completely away from the pro. This way there is no reason whatsoever that you should call him/her to introduce yourself.</p>

<p>I would disagree with not contacting the pro, because the pro has already seen Rebecca shooting at another wedding. If it were me, I'd be more suspicious seeing her at a second event, with a DSLR and pro gear, regardless of how far away she stayed for me. Short of being invisible, I'd see her some time. Plus, Rebecca might be giving up an opportunity to not worry at all about being seen and not having to stay <em>that</em> far away. If the pro is fine with her shooting, she could even become a second shooter. I've done that before with an eager guest.</p>

<p>Consensus seems to be I should introduce myself, mention that I'll be taking photos and will be staying out of his way. </p>

<p>As one more piece of clarification, I haven't really "worked" with this person before (I haven't worked with anyone). He just happened to do the wedding of one of my best friends and I took advantage of the fact that I was a maid (and my husband a groomsman) to get some neat behind the scenes shots. </p>

<p>The suggestion that the 100-400 is a bit much is well taken, however, it is a far superior piece of glass to my other zoom lens and the anti-shake alone is worth the other issues. I actually got it for shooting the Kentucky Derby the following weekend and didn't expect it to arrive early, but I could see it helping me to be unobtrusive as possible while still getting some nice close ups.</p>

<p>Good point Nadine... I should have read the OP more carefully :)</p>

 

<p>The pro has 'seen' you shooting at the other wedding, though, right? I would notice the same person.</p>

<p>If you talk to the pro and he is OK with you shooting, you might mention you are going to bring that lens and why. That way he isn't surprised with you walking around with a monster lens like that. Personally, I'm not sure one can be unobtrusive with that lens. :^)</p>

<p>Totally disagree about contacting the pro. You're a guest. Just be wary of the main shooter and avoid flash if at all possible. Honestly, I would rather deal with somebody like you who seems to be somewhat concerned with the potential intrusion then a lot of the crazy-a$$ed P&S folks I encounter.</p>

 

<p>And do some of you guys really care if somebody shows up with a bozooka mounted to their DSLR? I really don't understand all these assumptions or how it would effect your performance. I suspect this has more to do with intimidation and ego rather than anything else.</p>

At least it's not a 300 f/2.8. Then you'd have people coming up to ask if you're getting any good bird shots. The 100-400 is still proportioned well enough that it's evident you might be shooting people in the same county, possible at the same event. Seriously, though, It sounds like you already know what you're doing. Just try not to point at anything the hired pro is shooting. Apart from being rude and intrusive to the professional and the work he's trying to do, you would also just be replicating shots that the B&G are going to receive anyway.

<p>RT--I don't care. But if I saw the same person twice (notice the OP was shooting at a previous wedding the same pro was shooting), even as a guest or part of the wedding party, with a big lens, I would wonder. It has nothing to do with ego, or how seeing a big lens would affect one's performance (that is pretty sad, actually), but with questions that would spring to mind. Talking to the pro before would do away with those questions, and even possibly foster a closer working relationship. So to me, it's worth it, in this case, Also, the OP already said she wasn't going to use any flash.</p>

<p>Everyone is a "photographer" these days.</p>

<p>As long as you are not in the pro's way constantly, I don't see a problem. Just remember your place in the wedding. Some people becomes consumed by it and suddenly they are in the way of every shot.</p>

<p>100-400 rented "vacation" lens. Yikes, why don't you just have a few beers and dance. I would think a few clever shots with a basic lens would be appreciated, and not be annoying.</p>

<p>Totally disagree about contacting the pro. You're a guest.<br>

Rebecca told us "I've offered to take some photos at this upcoming wedding just as a supplement to the professional's work. The bride thought it was a great idea and invited me to the rehearsal and backstage to take getting ready shots." That's a bit beyond mere guest territory. If it were clear that the photographer won't be around at these times, then there is less reason to make contact.</p>

<p>Just stay out of the photographer's way. There's another problem, though. If you are running about with a huge phallic lens, odds are you are a distraction from the wedding ceremony itself! I'd position myself in an aisle seat with a wideangle, take a flash shot of bride coming and couple going. In between, might shoot some available light from the back or sides of audience. Keep your gear very simple.<br>

Remember that the bride coming and the couple going are the irreducible "money shots". Stay out of the photographer's way, but I've really got some shots that are very appreciated by the couple. <br />I used to contact the pro, when a guest at a wedding, untill the time about four Uncle Eds and Aunt Irmas started cutting loose all at once with their point and shoots. I figured, what the hey?<br />Just flit about taking candids during banquet. You have one BIG advantage over the pro. You know the guests better than he does. Take a series of shots that tell the story. As long as you stay out of his/her way, don't waste his time talking to the pro.</p>

<p>Howdy!</p>

<p>The pro should be contacted, but not by you.</p>

<p>The pro's contract is with the bride. Therefore the bride should contact the pro and explain the situation. The pro is much more likely to be cooperative and understanding if the request comes from the bride.</p>

<p>I remember several instances where brides contacted me and asked me if their semi-pro friends and/or relatives could take pictures. I was always happy to meet them at the event, and we spent some time talking photography. It was win-win all around.</p>

<p>I do not recall a single instance where a semi-pro contacted me on their own. I don't think I would have had a big problem with it, but I might have felt a little more awkward being cold-called by a stranger.</p>

<p>Later,</p>

<p>Paulsky</p>

<p>Rebecca: Leave the Photographer alone and just do candids when he is not shooting , Candids can give you the real wedding story if you do it Right: Trust me you can get some good fotos of the moment in time shots: good luck:</p>

<p>I've read this kind of thread several times over the course of getting into photography and the one argument that I see missing is the potential impact "supplemental" pictures might have on the pro's earnings. If the pro's price structure is such that they ask for little up front because they plan on making more with prints then if the OP's shots are any good and she's giving them for free, it actually harms this photog's bottom line. Frankly, that's not cool.<br>

However, the pro could be priced completely differently so that they make their money with what they've already sold to the B&G. In that case I can't see them having a problem with another shooter wandering around and sniping with the super zoom. (By the way, is that 100-400 mounted to a crop sensor because that really will be sniping?)<br>

The only other concern that I would raise would be the portfolio concern. You likely don't have the intent of doing this now but it might arise in the future, don't publish these photos as work you've done in order to win clients down the road. I don't think there is much that can be done about it legally but it would be in bad form and I have read other threads where semi's got into hot water with the pro for basically making it look like they were the pro for the wedding. Actually, the one I'm thinking about had the bride and groom in all sorts of headaches because the pro was threatening legal action against them because of the amateur's actions.<br>

In the end, the classy and respectful thing to do is to get permission first.</p>

<p>Question: Will you expect the hired photographer to Photo Shop out your camera in the images he/she takes at the wedding? It may be nice to offer your photography to the bride, and as you probably have a oven, are you going to take a second wedding cake along as well?</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Second wedding cake, zing!</p>

<p>but seriously...</p>