To Dan S. Or Any Other Processing Guru

Hey there Dan... I've read pleas for help posted by other clueless souls like

me and you always seem to have really good answers. So here's another: I've

read in my Jobo manual that it's not a good idea to run stabilizer through

because its very difficult to clean out all the way. It says to do that step

outsode the machine. Okay by me. I'm going to be using the Kodak Professional

Single-Use E-6 Kit and the paperwork I found lists a Final Rinse as the last

step to be performed outside the processor. Is this the stabilizer? I'm having

a hard time matching the steps in the Jobo manual to the chemicals in the Kodak

kit. The Jobo steps look like this:

 

First Developer -

Rinse -

Reversal Bath -

Color Developer -

Conditioner (is this the same as Kodak's Pre-Bleach?) -

Bleach Bath -

Fix Bath -

Final Rinse (Kodak has chemicals with this name) -

Stabilizer Bath (this is the one that throws me)

 

Do I need a chemical not included in the kit? There are 6 tanks in the Jobo and

up to 8 chemicals as far as I can tell. Perhaps I should be calling Kodak and

Jobo but I'd rather talk to someone who actually uses the machines, you know?

Thank you to anyone who can help.

Noelle, I've been using the Tentenal E-6 kits with the Jobo. This kit has a "stabilizer." The

Kodak E-6 Kit (which I've never use but just bought) has a final rinse which should be used

the same way as the stablizer; that is outside of the Jobo tank.

 

I put the stablizer in an old 2 reel 35mm stainless steel tank and drop one roll at a time in it.

I agitate a bit and let the roll sit for 1 minute. Then hang it up to dry. I do this with each roll

of film I am processing.

Noelle just to follow up with some more information. The color developer is usually supplied

in an A and B part. You mix them to create the color developer. You will have 6 different

solutions in your temp bath at 38c. The stablizer or final rinse is normally at room

temperature (there is a wide range specified, but not the 38c as the others).

 

As for the rinse water I use a separate water bath containing bottles with filtered water

heated to 38c. There isn't enough space in the Jobo CPP2 to hold enough water rinse bottles,

(well if you are running 5 rolls at a time like I do).

I use the Kodak 6 step E-6 and the final rinse is the stabilizer/photo-flo "stuff" (nice technical

term!) The reason they don't like you to use it in the tank is because of the "phot-flo" aspect

of this step. Just as you should not put actual photo-flo in your tank when doing B&W. It is

hard to get out as it coats everything. Good luck with your processing.

<blockquote> <b>Pre-bleach:</b> 2:00 @ 90?-103?F/32?-39?C.<br/> This bath was previously called "conditioner", but was re-named pre-bleach in the mid 1990's to reflect a major change in removing the formaldehyde in the final rinse. The pre-bleach bath solution has formaldehyde acting as a dye preservative and EDTA to "kick off" the bleach. The pre-bleach bath also relies on carry-over of the color developer (i.e. no wash step) to function properly. <br><br> <b>Final rinse:</b> 1:00 @ 80?-103?F/27?-39?C.</br> Up until the mid 1990's, the final rinse was called a stabilizer bath, since it contained formaldehyde. Currently, the final rinse uses a Photo-Flo-style surfactant, and miconazole, an anti-fungal agent.

 

</blockquote><br> <b>Also, note the time & temperature tolerances increase in each step, as everything past the first wash (well, even the first wash) are "process to completion" baths.</b><br><br> Also, note that I recommend <a href = "http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007dXZ" target = "_blank">Two Stage Fixing</a> for process E-6... And that is a link you should follow. <br><br> Hope this helps... </p>

I consider the admonition about not running the "stabilizer" in the JOBO to be utter nonsense. I ran a JOBO CPE-2 for quite a while, and it was about halfway through that era that I first learned that I wasn't supposed to be doing the final wash in the tank, so I dutifully stopped doing so. But as time went by, I felt more and more foolish about it. I can't imagine that the final wash is attacking the reels or the tank, it certainly is no more chemically active than any of the other steps, and obviously milder than most of them.

 

When I switched to the fully automatic PhotoTherm SideKick, there was no such prohibition anywhere in the instructions. The materials in the reels and tanks are slightly different, but as they are made to be used in the same solutions as the JOBO reels I couldn't see the difference.

 

The idea that the final wash is hard to get out of the tank is silly, it's just a surfactant (detergent), and we don't hesitate to put it on our dinner plates or wine glasses because surfactants rinse right off.

 

Also note that, if for some reason you don't rinse the reels and tank well, there isn't anything in the final wash that is going to contaminate the next batch of film anyway.

 

The only reason that I can see for not running the final rinse would be fear that it would foam up from the agitation, but I never saw any signs of that being a problem in the JOBO, and no other processor manufacturer suggests there is a problem with that. (Specifically, Wing-Lynch and PhotoTherm don't make any comments on this in documentation for their rotary-tube processors.)

 

When I was despooling the wet film to get it into the final wash without contaminating the reels I did get a little glow of ecological satisfaction from the fact that I could reuse the final wash for ages that way. However, when I realized that the concentrate to make 25 gallons of the stuff only costs ten bucks I realized that I wasn't accomplishing much of anything.

 

I recommend finding a fat black marker and crossing out the instruction to keep the final rinse away from the JOBO reels and tanks.

 

Van

Also note this comment on the final wash step from Kodak's instructions for using the E-6 kit in rotary-tube processing: "This step can be performed in the rotary tube or in a separate tank outside the processor."

 

Van

So Kodak's two-chemical Rinse Bath is really the rinse and stabilizer both under one name? They are two seperate steps? Do they require two seperate tanks/trays? And Dan about the two-stage fixing... How would that work for single-use chemistry? It seems the point is to remove the last traces of silver not picked up in the first step because of used fixer. With my E-6 kit, all the chemicals including fixer are fresh every time. Is this still necessary? Sorry for being dense but I've got limited time to figure this out and zero help on my end. Thank you!

Noelle,

In E6 processing there is only one "Final Rinse". I believe it used to be called Stabalizer some time ago. Now they refer to it as Final Rinse. It serves the same purpose as photoflo. It is a wetting agent that prevents water from streaking your film. They shouldn't require two different steps. As far a using them in the same tanks, it does take a bit more rinsing to get it completely out of the system. It shouldn't affect your development if a small amount is left behind. I try to clean anything out that I use for fear of contamination, but Final Rinse is not a chemical per se, mainly a detergent, so it shouldn't make a huge difference.

Hope this helps.