Tackling M6 "finder flare" cheaply

<p>This is about the much discussed "finder flare" problem of the M6. I use this widely understood term because the more accurate "white-out" is not so commonly used. I shall appreciate reactions to what I have to say.</p>

<p>Apparently some people are not overly troubled and so advise others to ignore it or else say flatly that it is not a problem. Alas, I am not one of those. I experienced the problem twice in the first ten exposures on my first roll in the camera. I cannot afford a finder upgrade. Also, I rule out Konermann's SHADE because Don Goldberg told me that he didn't think it made things better. Thus I am in search of a cheap solution. Apart from not being able to afford a finder upgrade, I think it is wrong to have to do something to correct a defect which should not have been present in an expensive product from a famous company.</p>

<p>"Finder flare" is not in fact the only problem. I find that the M6's R/F demands precise positioning of the user's eye even when no bright light hits the frame-line illumination window from a dangerous angle. It is much more sensitive to eye position than the M3, of which I had two decades' experience, and even the M2, though that was somewhat more demanding (and less dependable) than its predecessor.</p>

<p>My first attempted cure was a small rectangle of black tape stuck on the illumination window. I thought it was a success, because it made the "window" for focussing larger: but I had to discard it because it also made some of the frame lines almost invisible. After facing the "flare" problem again, I have now stuck on a still smaller piece of tape. At this time I have little experience with it.</p>

<p>The only other options I know of are: (1) to switch between horizontal and vertical just for the focussing, as one is usually better than the other; and (2) to stick a finger in front of the illumination window, focus, then put the finger back where it belongs. Neither is perfect -- but for me, as I have said, perfection is too expensive to be attainable.</p>

<p>I wonder if anyone has experience with the "3M Light Control Film" mentioned in this post: http://nemeng.com/leica/020b.shtml ?</p>

<p>I don't know if that will help, Dieter. What's needed is something that blocks light coming from a specific direction: and if the sort of louvres that are Konermann's SHADE does not help, then...</p>

<p>Mukul--I don't want to downplay the interruption finder flare can cause, as I have seen it in my own M6.<br>

I have found that physically moving my body just a little left or right will cure the flare.<br>

Of course, that may not always be possible, but in my case, it works 99% of the time.<br>

The M6 is an excellent camera and has a very accurate meter.<br>

Hopefully you can find a reasonable solution to the flare.<br>

Best wishes,<br>

Paul</p>

<p>Flare isn't the only problem, Paul, as I said. The eye must be pretty much in exactly the right spot to use the R/F. Not having seen a schematic, I cannot understand how the removal of a condenser and the change of a mirror from flat to parabolic could have done this.</p>

<p>Mukul,</p>

<p>Is it possible you have some some haze in the finder? My brand new Leica M6 Titanium, (SN 2239755), had haze in the viewfinder right out of the box which caused terrible flare in the Hawaii sun. I sent the camera to Leica for cleaning and the performance of the finder was vastly improved. Viewfinder flare is rarely a problem now. As for the eye positioning problem, I have not experienced that in the least. I can move my eye position around quite a bit with no issues.</p>

<p>Mukul<br>

Give the Shade a go. I have one and it offers a definite and visible improvement.<br>

Anyway it IS a cheap solution and if it doesn't work well enough for you (or Don for that matter) then you won't have lost much money.<br>

Mine has been on so long I forget how bad the flare used to be though.<br>

Have a great holiday whether you elect to take my tip or not<br>

Gadge.</p>

<p>Robert, the finder as a whole is crisp and contrasty. It would not have been so in the presence of haze. I can move my eye only a little to left or right without going out of the "sweet spot" of the R/F. This happens all the time, not just when bright light causes a "white-out" of the R/F patch. Seems to me that different individuals -- or just their eyes -- react differently to the phenomena involved. I have had surgery for cataract, but I cannot see how that would affect my vision in the context of the M6.</p>

<p>Gadge, maybe I will forgo a few rolls of film and try the Shade. As you say, it's only a small gamble. I now have two men's opinions to go by.</p>

<p>The SHADE works but you do loose some frame brightness (especially on the right side). Nevertheless, I have them on all of the time, including a lot of low-light stuff (outdoors and concerts) - it is definately manageable. One gets the feel for the rectangle even with one margin line almost missing at times.<br>

Angle sensitivity? What about something like: take your M up to your 'photographic eye' so you can see the 35mm frame in its entirety, focus it for 3 different 'shots' and put it down again. Repeat, 100 times a day for a month... Once one is that precise regarding eye position, the patch will always be funtional - woosh, angle sensitivity is gone!<br>

It seems to have become lost knowledge that Leica Ms were (still are) cameras for professionals, i.e, people who use them on a daily basis. Apart from view cameras, which camera type took you longest to learn how to consistently produce technically ok frames?</p>

<p> </p>

I've experienced finder flare maybe a dozen times in 30 years of using a Leica.

Holding my hand off to the side to block the light works for me.

<p>Thank you, PC B. I shall record another vote for the Shade. The maker does say that it cuts about 40 per cent of the frame lines' brightness. Maybe when I was younger and took many more photos than I now do I could have done the exercise or drill you advise: I may even have done it in the course of work, without consciously trying. While it is true that at one time many or most professionals used M Leicas, the company could not have kept afloat if they alone had been its customers. If you are saying that every tool demands practice and discipline from its users, then of course I agree. <br /> <br />Ray, you must be among the lucky ones I mentioned in my first post. Or maybe you have worked with Leicas other than the M6. I speak of the M6 here, not of Leicas in general. I've had over 20 years with Leicas, but most of that time was with an M3 and only two years were with an M2. There was no flare in their finders. I've had this M6 for a dozen days but the focus problem has already hit about as many times. I hold the camera in one hand and use the other hand to focus the lens. Thus I have no limb left to hold up so as to block the light. I have seen people hold camera and focus, all with one hand: but that is not a technique I could master. I am a photographer, not a contortionist (and <em>it is not my intention to be rude</em>).</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I guess the the best fix for the M6 patch white-out would be installation of the "MP flare-fix upgrade". However I don't know if this would help with problem of centering your eye in the eyepiece for the best possible rendition of the patch.</p>

<p>This from my favorite repair person, Sherry Krauter, "The MP modification is putting back in what was taken out for black line profit. It is the center of the rangefinder frame. Flare and glare is reduced, but more importantly incredible contrast in low light. Labour is $220.00, and the Part is $80.00, plus shipping."</p>

<p>Ruled it out already, Robert. I don't have the money <strong>and</strong> I do not see why I should pay to fix a problem that should not have been there in the first place. I <em>want</em> to manage with the M6 because I'm tired of buying, trying, selling ... and the same thing over and over again. I shall leave that to younger folk. If I cannot manage with it, I shall sell it and look for an M5. Besides, the Konermann Shade now has two votes in its favour.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>…..I do not see why I should pay to fix a problem that should not have been there in the first place.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree Mukul. This is an egregious and intentional failure of Leica to maintain the high quality of a <strong>major</strong> component of the Leica M camera.</p>

The viewfinder flare happens. With the M6 and the M7. I am a little surprised about you mentioning the need to center

what you call "the sweet spot".<br>

When the focus area flares I normally solve the problem moving the eye a little bit left or right. After some time to get used

to it it has become absolutely natural to me.<br>

You say that you have been using it for about a dozen days. My suggestion would be to keep using it for some other time

and try out this slight adjustment of the eye behind the finder.<br>

I have to do it in any case to compose properly with the 28mm frame lines.<br>

My suggestion would be that it's a matter of getting used to the camera and to be patient.<br>

But I plan to consider the issue more carefully and come back in the next days.<br>

L.<br><br>

PS I wear glasses.

I have two M7's (0.58 and 0.72 finders) and an M6TTL. I know the .72 M7 is the unimproved finder, but I'm almost embarrassed to admit I don't know if either of the other two cameras have the improved one. Maybe it's because I usually shoot with the light coming from behind me so it's not that important. At any rate, I agree that it takes a little adjusting and moving around if flare happens. Perhaps your eyesight makes that more difficult. It does take a little work to focus with flare by trying to block the light with your hand. You have to go back and forth a few times and it can be a struggle, but since it happens so infrequently for me that isn't an issue.

 

You could try calling Sherry and ask for her advice. Assuming she's not busy when you call, she loves talking cameras.

<p>Robert, the V/F and R/F are probably, for the user, the <em>most</em> important things in a camera. This action of Leitz/Leica is inexplicable. I propose to punish them by not buying an M12p.</p>

<p>I shall be patient, Luca. However, you cannot deprive an old man of his right to grumble.</p>

<p>Ray, I don't think one has to shoot against the light to induce flare: any relatively bright light -- including an expanse of sky -- is enough. As I do a lot of work close up and at or near full open aperture, I am accustomed to drunken swaying back and forth to achieve correct focus. With time, I think I shall survive.</p>

<p>When the M6 came out this was a huge complaint from many of us who bought it new, especially eyeglass wearers. Those who have not seen it might not have much sympathy, but for many of use we experienced it not as just flare but as near complete white-out. This does not just occur with a very bright light source, but even in a moderately well lit room with a bright window off to the side, even without direct sunlight coming in. </p>

<p>I bit the bullet and got the viewfinder upgrade, Leica would not warranty it, but I went to an independent repair shop and paid MUCH less. Leica was hardly generous with their pricing (an understatement) even for those of us who bought the camera new, so much so that it was less than 1/2 price at a non-factory repair shop.</p>

<p>The difference was night and day. I never had the slightest problem with flare in the finder again. It was wonderful. </p>

<p>Leica denied to everyone that there was a problem, though they offered the expensive "upgrade" to alleviate a "situation" that really was "not a defect". </p>

<p>This is the first account here from someone who bought the M6 when it came out. I consider it more important than the denials of people who who find nothing wrong with the camera today. It is also the first informed and reliable account of Leica's double talk.</p>

<p>I bought my M-6 in 1991. I have to wear corrective lenses to see anything past 3-inches from my nose clearly and have never had any trouble using the M-6 viewfinder. I'm probably just unsophisticated about how it "should" work, or when I'm using it, I'm so engrossed in making photos that I don't notice it's not working how it's supposed to...I don't know.</p>

<p>People have given you the available alternatives to cure this "problem" and you seem intent on rejecting all of them. Fine - I'll give you another alternative -</p>

<p>Sell the all of the Leica equipment, and get a digital SLR - you need to be taking photographs...not dwelling on equipment functionality short comings.</p>

 

I don't know Desmond, to be fair, many companies, of many different kinds of products offer "upgrades" of a similar nature. I don't see that viewfinder flare is a make or break issue for most people deciding whether or not to use a Leica M. But having said that, there are a lot of nice used film cameras out there for a lot less if affordability is an issue.

 

Edit: Yes, I think Steve has it right. But instead of a digital SLR I'd get a nice used film SLR.

<p>Sorry Mukul, this may not be what you wanted to hear, but my solution was to replace the M6 with an M2. I don't miss the meter and the build quality of M2 is decades apart. Oh, also it was very nice to pocket the £500 difference. :-)</p>

<p>Koray</p>

<p>Koray, I just sold an M3 to buy the M6 for its built-in meter and consequent faster working. $1,000 minus $900 wasn't a lot of pocket money. Ray, what Leica call an upgrade is actually the restoration of an older and better construction. This is nothing but double talk. If you have the time, Steve Swinehart, please look at -- where there is some work with film Leicas but most is with digital SLRs. Please also show me where I have rejected any option other than the finder upgrade, which I had declared at the start not to be an option. Pity that no one as sharp was around 51 years ago, when I first got a camera, to show me the True Path. But of course you are right: there's nothing better than closing one's eyes and brain and taking pictures of windows and corridors and the rocks one walks over.</p>

But this gets to be just another thread that is a Leica bash. If you don't like the camera and can't afford to get the model that is to your liking, get something else. I don't drive a BMW either, because I can't afford to deal with the quirks it has. Much German technology is like that- very fine tuned but expensive and quirky. You can get a beauty of an SLR film camera with lens for $100-$200, and with the money you've saved, buy some film, take a trip, and take some pictures.

<p>Mukul, shortly after I bought my M6 three years ago I got the Sherry Krauter upgrade mentioned above.. Under bright lighting conditions it is decidedly better than before. I also find the vertical/horizontal alternation mentioned earlier helpful. Before the upgrade, Sherry graded my M6 a "9" on her 10-point scale. Afterward? A "10!" Hokey? Maybe, but to Krauterites it has real meaning.</p><div></div>