Super 8 Kodachrome bites the dust

I'm not sure which forum is best for this post. Please forgive me if

I'm off topic. This really isn't about slide film, but it is about

Kodachrome reversal film.

 

For all of you super 8 lovers out there...

 

Kodak has announced that it will cease production of Kodachrome 40 in

Super 8mm cartridges. They say that Kodachrome 40 will continue to be

available in 16mm film. I am saddened by the loss of the extraordinary

K40 film in S8.

 

http://wwwuk.kodak.com/US/en/motion/about/news/super8.jhtml

 

Kodak is releasing a new 64 ASA Tungsten film to take K40's place. I

doubt it's the same as EPY, since the new film is described as

super-saturated. I haven't been able to find any detailed information

about the new film yet. K40 was 3400K balanced film. EPY is 3200K

balanced. I have no idea about the new 64T Super 8 film.

 

Most of the low-end auto-exposure only Super 8 cameras that were

designed solely for use with 40T or 160T film will probably not

properly expose the 64T correctly.

 

Fortunately, most of my S8 cameras can be set for manual exposure and

will handle the 64T just fine. I'm looking forward to shooting it, but

I'll miss K40.

 

Has anyone heard any news of the new 64T Super 8 film?

Youve got to be kidding! I solely use Kodachrome 40 in Super 8. Its my number one choice. I was planning on shooting some for a trip this fall. The grain is what made this film. And its archival. Looks like I'm stocking up on some rolls. It looks like Super 8 has turned into non standard rolls which the meters can not use. I'll miss Kodachrome. Anyone that still projects this stuff knows what Im getting at. It sounds to me they are trying to get rid of all Kodachrome so to shut down the remaining developing plants. Though Dwaynes is not connected with Kodak directly, I'm sure if the numbers dropped they'd stop doing it.

This brings up a new question- since there are now no films which the internal camera meters can use, is it possible to recalibrate the meters to the new film speeds of choice? I'm sure the cartridge notches would still be useful for this.

Yes, Kodachrome projects so nicely. The only thing I ever shot that looked better on the screen than K40 was K25.

 

I just got a reel of K40 back from Kodak today, as a matter of fact. When I screened it, I was as enthralled by the rich and vibrant color as ever. I'll miss it.

 

I plan to stock up and freeze 40 or 50 carts, maybe double that if I can afford it. Kodak says they'll continue to process S8 K40 for at least a year. Hopefully Dwayne's will continue to process S8 K40 for even longer. Interestingly, 16mm K40 is not affected by the announcement, so presumably Dwayne's and Kodak will continue to process the 16mm film going forward. (Until the next bad announcement, that is.)

 

I can set the ASA on my Beaulieu 6008 for the new film, no problem. I can meter and shoot manual on a couple other of my S8 cams. Depending on how an auto-exposure camera meters, perhaps a 0.2 ND filter would do the trick. We'll have to wait and see.

 

Buy it and shoot it now while you can. I'm excited about having a color reveral stock to shoot even though it won't be as archival as Kodachrome. And if it's E6, I'll be able to process it myself. But I'm really not happy about losing K40. Fortunately, I also love and shoot a lot of Plus-X, and that isn't going away. Yet.

Might be possible to recalibrate or replace the meters on some cameras. That's an interesting thought. But most S8 cams are downright scary to open up. All full of PCB boards and electronics... Not my cup of tea.

But that does mean it should fairly easy to build replacements, or even modifications. If all you need to do is say, alter the values of a few standard electrical components, PCB's, especially old ones, are your friend.

I think the problem might be that the Super 8 film was "manufactured in France" (not just finished/packaged) as plainly stated on the box. Didn't Kodak announced the closing of that French plant last year? I believe the 16mm is manufactured/finished/packaged in Rochester! When the present supply in the "Kodak Rochester salt mines" is used up, that could bring about the demise of 16mm K40?

 

Robert Johnson

I have a roll that expired about a year ago..is it worth it to shoot it now, it's been at room temperature. The new Super8 film is reportedly at a granularity of 11...probably too high for that small format. I don't shoot much K40 anymore, but I will miss it, for when I did use it, the colors were so beautiful, particularly reds...more saturated than K64, which I'm afraid may be next on the chopping block. If they can process 16mm K40, can't they process super 8 too?

I'd shoot that old roll if I were you. K40 holds up pretty well even at room temperature, so it's probably fine. If you don't have a cart with pre-paid processing mailer or a PK59, you can drop it off at Walmart and have it processed at Dwayne's in Kansas for $4.88 per roll.

 

I don't think we can assume that the new stock is the same as EPY, and therefore we can't assume that characteristics like RMS granularity are necessarily the same as EPY either. Kodak in the announcement says the new film is super-saturated, and that is not a characteristic of EPY.

 

I've heard that the new film emulsion number is 7280. Hopefully more info will come soon.

I am curious, I thought Super 8 had died a long time ago and am encouraged by the posts above. What has kept you from migrating to analog or digital taping, Skip, Scott, Mike and Robert?

Christopher,

 

I am presently just a 35mm Kodachrome user, but I like to keep up on all aspects of Kodachrome. I my earlier days, I shot plenty of 16mm Kodachrome (double perf) in my old news camera, a Bell&Howell 70DR. This film still looks great today. That is more than I can say for the EF-B news film run through a Houston-Feerless processor!

 

I think Kodak is trying to figure a way of killing off all Kodachrome, but at my guess of them selling between one and two million rolls a year, that is presently hard to do.

Well I didn't give up on Super 8 because basically I still have it. I bought a mini dv camcorder years ago and sold it. I just don't do much motion shooting. Once in a blue moon I'll make a movie and Super 8 is my choice for that. Also I love being able to project the stuff large. It still has a look video can't touch. I'm going to the Grand Canyon this fall and I'm bringing my Super 8 for that. I can't wait to see that projected. It transfers over to video quite well too, however expensive that is when done right. I have one Elmo that is sound and 18 fps, while the other Elmo is sound and also does 24 fps. I have yet to use the better Elmo. I had planned to make another movie, until that idea fell through. Kodak has already killed off its low light Super 8 film. That doesn't leave many options left in color reversal. No one in BC here can transfer from Super 8 neg film to video using a telecine.

Super saturated... RMS 11... sounds like it might be a tungsten version of E100VS, maybe?

The Ektachrome Questions and Answers link, which is at least on the US version of that page, says explicitly that the 64T is exactly the same film stock as EPY.

 

Nice of them to also offer the Vision negative stocks in Super-8. Those are the most advanced color negative materials Kodak makes, a generation ahead of their C-41 films. But, you have to factor in the costs of making a release print.

 

As for Kodachrome, I suppose that the Super-8 processing runs are getting very infrequent and uneconomical. Double-8 can at least run with the 16mm film, along with any ancient 110 Kodachrome people send in. The 35mm lines can run 135, 828, and 126 film. (Funny thing how all three of those films are 35mm wide...)

Christopher, I have continued to shoot regular 8mm, Super 8, and 16mm film instead of digital or analogue video because I like the look of film, because I like the challenge of working with film, because I like old cameras and their heft and quality and intricate machining and amazing mechanics, because I like to project my film on a silver screen, because I'm a nostalgia junkie, because I like tinkering with old stuff, because I like to relive my past, and to recreate the feelings and the magic that my Dad created with his regular 8mm camera in the '50s to the mid '70s. That's all.

 

It's similar to the reason why I shoot 8x10 with an old Deardorff, and 8x20 with an old Korona, and why I converted a spare bedroom in my house to a permanent darkroom (really nice), and why I develop my own E6 and black and white films, and print my own RA-4, and mix most of my processing solutions from bulk chemicals, and print my LF negs on platinum and palladium paper that I coated myself.

 

Frankly, I'm not a very good photographer or cinematographer, but I sure love the process and my modest accomplishments.

 

Oh yes, I have a Canon mini-DV cam, but I only use it with my WorkPrinter from MovieStuff to capture my 8mm films to my computer, frame by frame.

 

That's why I still shoot movie film.

John, you may be right about the processing difficulty for S8 films. Hard to say. That's one of the things that Kodak impies in the announcement.

 

Yes, the "new" film is, in fact, EPY. Those two links at the bottom of the announcement were added today. They weren't there yesterday.

 

I haven't tried the new and reportedly wonderful Vision 2 negative films partly because I can't transfer them myself with my WorkPrinter, and it is expensive to have them telecined by a transfer house. But mainly because I can't project them, and that is one of the most important and magic aspects of movies for me.

Scott, use your cameras, man! Don't forget that Plus-X reversal is another really nice looking film on the silver screen. Fomapan 100 is another lovely black and white film with a tone that is markedly different from that of Plus-X. Unfortunately, you can't get it in Super 8, but it is available in regular 8mm and in DS8. Sad to say, I can't recommend Tri-X reversal unless you want lots of grain.

 

Check with J&C Photo or John Schwind for regular 8mm and DS8 Fomapan. Call Kodak direct for Super 8mm Plus-X or Tri-X or K40. I hope they release the new EPY before August. The Kodak number is 1-800-621-FILM (3456). And stock up on a few more rolls of K40, and use it while you can. I'd definitely suggest K40 for your Grand Canyon trip, but bring along some Plus-X too, and some EPY 7280 for the sake of comparison.

 

Personally, I'm about to place an order for 100 carts of K40, and I'll shoot everything I can think of for the next year or so.

Sigh,

One less filmstock. I don't shoot a lot of super 8, but I just finished a project where some was shot TriX Super 8, and was hoping to do one in about 18 months with a lot of super 8 Kodachrome. Guess I'll have to find another way.

All I can say is that I curse those B******s in Rochester. Obviously they intend to

exterminate Super 8 and all Kodachrome emulsions. What an utterly shortsighted and

pathetic decision.

On www.filmshooting.com, a representative from Dwayne's in Kansas said they plan to process Super 8mm Kodachrome for the foreseeable future. It is only the Kodak lab in Switzerland that will process Super 8 for only another year.

 

So, call 1-800-621-FILM and order some Super 8. I ordered 50 cartridges today for $10.83 per cart. There is a lot of K40 in the rest of the distribution channels too.

I don't shoot much Kodachrome40 super 8 anymore, the cost of transferring is just too high. (Dont have a workprinter myself!). I have a really good Sony 3ccd minidv that I use for motion work. (Sound is a major issue!) But I still like to shoot a couple of rolls a year, just to catch that beautiful K40 color and grainless image! I guess I'd better buy a few more rolls, just for old times sake! I do, however, shoot a lot of K64 35mm still film....love the skin tones! An ektachrome replacement for super 8 just wont be the same ....I am curious if it will be as grainfree as K40, but certainly will have a different color palatte.. is the new super 8 film going to be reversal or negative? I would shoot a lot more film if I could get super 8 color timed prints from negative...I do think it's ironic that, as others have pointed out, Kodak chose Super 8's big 40 to kill off it's most popular and beautiful Super 8 flagship product--K40.

There's one element of this that doesn't make sense: that they are going to keep making 16mm Kodachrome. The difficulties and expense in manufacturing a film stock are in the chemistry and coating of the huge rolls two or three feet wide or how ever big that film in manufactured in. Slitting it down to a particular size and perforating it is trivial. So if you're going to make the stuff in the first place, why not keep slitting and perforating for Super 8? Winding it into Super 8 cartridges is more hassle than just winding onto spools for 16mm. There's a business potential here for a cottage industry in the future to buy the 16mm slot, reslit and perf it and load it into a Super 8 cartridge. Of course you'd have to sell it for $50 a cartridge to cover the labor. But then Super 8 hasn't made econommic sense for years so there could be diehard fans willing to pay. In the very old days of double 8, some people used to buy 16mm and reperf it for double 8mm (same dimensions, just double the number of perfs).

Are the perf holes in 16mm the same size as super8, or reg 8? Yeah, doesn't make much sense to kill off super 8, but continue with 16mm, where most folks using that format are probably using negative stock.

With normal 16mm; there are 40 fames per foot. This means the long pitch is 0.3 inches. The short pitch variant is a 0.2994 sprocket pitch. regular eight has twice the sprocket holes; ie the nomical pitch is 0.15 inch; 80 frames per foot. Super eight uses a smaller sprocket hole; this allows a larger active area; less waste. The sprocket holes aon 16mm and regular eight are about 52 by 72 mils; on Super 8 they are about 45 by 36 mils. Super 8 has a wider pitch than regular 8; ie 0.1667 inch versus 0.15 inch. This means super 8 has 72 frames per foot; and regular has 80. Perf machines to create regular 8's "double pitch" have been around about 7 decades. Super 8 came out about 1963; and was really marketed about 1965. It uses a cartridge; and a freaker pitch and sprocket; not easy to make out of 16mm. I guess one could buy single sprocket 16mm; slit the un sprocketd side; and reperf to the 1/72 ft pitch; and add the mess to a cartridge.

Chris, one only has to shoot a roll of super 8 K40 to know why we still all use and love it....beautiful images! For me, when you project it, it's almost like you're looking thru a window instead of watching a movie...you kind of feel like you're there..that's what I'll really miss about it.