street photography with a Nikon F3

I am looking to perfect (or learn) how to do good street photos,

presently I'm using a small digican for practise and have done fairly

well, not I want to graduate to my Nikon F3, and I considering

purchasing the waist level finder to use as a guide for my shoot and

replace the existing screen for a Beatty to get a brighter image to

look at while my camera remains at waist level. The camera will be

set at infinity and the F stop at 16, film ASA 800.

 

Given those parameter are the screen and finder overkill?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Hugh

Hugh: The F-3 is a great camera. The noise it makes may be an issue for candid street photos. I would do deliberate eye level shots with this camera. Let people see and get used to the camera. They will let you know with body language that they don't want to be in the photo. I would pre-set the focus to the F-11 depth of field markings on the lens if you plan on using only F-16. Street photos at a wider apertures are kind of nice with the backgrounds out of focus.

If a waist level finder is required, of course you will need an F

family camera. But the FG is a svelt little nikon with a fairly quiet

shutter, dimunutive size, and full manual operation as well as

metered priority, etc. I'd prolly put a 28mm E on it and go.

I use my F3 with DW-3 and the standard K screen. The

K screen is plenty bright for framing, and you won't

be able to use the screen to focus critically

unless you use the magnifier and hold your

eye to the finder (sounds like you're planning zone

focus anyway), so I'd say your Beattie idea is overkill.

Not necessarily a bad idea, just unnecessary for this

application.

<p>

It sounds like you already have the F3? If so, you can get an

idea of what the view through the DW-3 is like by taking

off the prism and cupping your hand around the screen to

shade it. The DW-3 just does this, and it also keeps the screen

in place if you turn the camera upside down (good for shooting

over the heads of crowds).

<p>

Be aware that, with an open WL finder, enough stray light can

get to the F3's meter to affect metering, resulting in underexposure.

I find it's best to meter with my eye close to the finder,

shading the screen. I normally keep the camera in manual with

the WL finder, only using autoexposure if I'm going to shoot

with the finder closed (on a tripod) or with my eye right

up to the finder.

I firmly believe AF is NOT the best choice for street pgotography, nor is a rangefinder camera. Personally I prefer a Nikon FE and a wide angle, either 24 F2 Nikkor or 28-50 Nikkor zoom. I think at F16 you would be better off focusing at a little less than infinity.

how loud is the f3? if it's too loud, i wouldn't use it with a wf.

from my experience, people get more angry if you sneak around to get a

shot. i would suggest you just shoot with regular eye level finder

and not sneak around.

 

if you insist on wf, why not get a beatup tlr? they are quieter than

leicas, quite cheap and the negative will be way bigger.

Thank you for the feedback, I actually don't plan n using the camera for actual "street photography" but to adopt the technique for wedding photography which is my bread and butter stuff. The idea here is to get some good wide angle candids, problem with wedding is that a lot of people like candids/pj stuff but everybody gets stiff as a board the moment they see a camera pointed on their direction.

 

So I'm not concern about people getting angry at me taking pictures I have been practicing on my way to work to get down the timing, and I which I can use my digican but the ISO speed is just not there, althought for nice bright days it works fairly well.

 

Why the F3, because I already have one, I also have an FM2 but you cannot change the finder and the shutter is just as loud.

 

I do plan in using it with a 20mm lens so at 16mm that makes for a nice DOF, which is what I'm looking for, I also do have a TLR, but that camera actually attracts more looks do to the curiosity factor which older cameras, I'm curios about one comment, why less than infinity at F16 will F22 (maximum F stop on the 20 be better) at infinity, as you can see I'm also learning my way around on zone focusing.

 

Thanks again,

 

Hugh

Are you planning to use available light for this?

 

If so, then buy a Voigtlander Bessa-L ($75) and any one of the superb Voigtlander-Cosina superwide lenses (15mm, 21mm, or 25mm). These lenses are better optically than any SLR lens every made of the same focal lenses, and are reasonably priced ($250 to $400 each).

 

 

The Bessa-L is not a rangefinder camera -- it is a tiny finderless 35mm camera like a Leica-O. You scale focus and look through the accessory viewfinder. It is quiet, tiny, and absolutely discreet. The ideal rig for discreet street photography.

 

It is also good for architectural photography, which is what I use mine for primarily.

 

Gandy's website has a lot of information -- www.cameraquest.com.

<<I'm curios about one comment, why less than infinity at F16 will F22 (maximum F stop on the 20 be better) at infinity, as you can see I'm also learning my way around on zone focusing.>>

 

Because the depth of field extends both in front of and beyond the point at which you set the focus. So you don't need to set the focus at infinity. You can set it closer than that(*) and win on two counts: 1) the depth of field will still extend to infinity, and 2) your depth of field will extend closer to your camera.

 

If you set the focus at infinity, you're essentially throwing away the depth of field beyond the focus point, and you're only using the part of the depth of field that works in your favor on the closer-than-focus-point side.

 

I don't know where your weddings and receptions take place, but doesn't using f/22 restrict you to very slow shutter speeds?

 

Hope that helps. Have fun.

 

-Jim

 

(*) Okay, so now you're wondering "how close, exactly?" and the answer to that is to hunt around for threads including the topic "hyperfocal," because what we're really talking about here is using the hyperfocal distance for maximum benefit of depth of field. Hyperfocal distance varies according to both focal length and f/stop for any given film format, so you'll need to do a little research and a little experimentation before you have it "down pat."

Hugh

 

MY experience is this. I started street shooting i 1965 with a Pentacon waist level reflex, then a Nikon F then F3 etc etc, untiol I now have a Leics M3. The two BEST, bar none, street cameras are the Konica AF Black and the Yashica T4.

 

The Konica AF - not RF although that is a very good street camera as well-Black, also known as the "Stealth " version because it has a lens that is as sharp if not sharper and "better" than the Leica Summicron of Nikon 35mm, IMHO. It is just about silent even from 3 in away.

 

The T4 has a leaf shutter as well and is autofocus with an excellent Zeiss Tessar lens, and it has a built-in waist level "Snoop" finder. The only drawback is you can not select the aperture or shutter speed, although in daylight I have not had a problem using 400 film Colour or B&W. I have also great made 16 x 20 prints from both.

 

There is my 2 cents worth.

 

Cheers

Hugh, I have an F3 and a 20mm lens and I think that unless you're tackling a huge group photo, the lens is just too wide for a wedding. Also, if you don't take care to keep the camera back vertical, you will have a big problem with converging lines, to say nothing of getting your feet into the bottom of the shot. I would probably go with a 24mm-35mm range of lenses. I'm plannning on covering a friend's wedding with a 35mm f/1.4<p>The F3 without the motor drive is pretty quiet in the outside setting. Whenever I go around shooting in crowds, nobody even knows that I've fired the shutter - unless I have the motor drive attached and turned on. I've even shot inside a church when a new bishop was being installed (I was asked to do it as a favor, I didn't just bring my camera along for this event). Nobody heard the camera going off - their attention is focused elsewhere.

You guys want to come to my weddings :-)

 

"I don't know where your weddings and receptions take place, but doesn't using f/22 restrict you to very slow shutter speeds?"

 

This set up is normally for the very beginnng of the wedding when the bride want to get some unobstrusive shots done and for outside shots only, after the actual ceremony everybody losens up (specially after the bar opens), the reason for the 20 and the F3 is that I own one, so that makes it easy, I also use other cameras, this setup is just to give one more look.

 

As far as the Konica AF, is that a point and shoot?

 

The Voitlander also seems like a nice option.

 

As far as the look, many photographers right now use fisheye lenses on their weddings (the PJ group), I prefere the rectilinear style so this is my answer to that.

 

Again thanks for the feedback it looks like I have some homework to do

 

Regards

 

Hugh

Richard, funny street photo, but thanks for sharing. D100,or Leica M6, the Konica is noisy: or, what works for you.

Forgot. The D100 and Leica, are quite, without shutter lag. Two qualities important in street photography! The Konica is noisy, plus shutter lag.

The main issue with the waist level finder in 35mm is that shooting verticals is difficult (unlike say in 120 square format). The screen is also pretty tiny.

<p>Chinese New Year in Vancouver. Nikon F3HP, 50/1.4, Provia 100F.

<p><img src="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=1292084&size=md">

shooting verticals is difficult

 

True, but practice makes perfect; and it's fun. Enjoyed your photo.

i too think your technique with the superwide at f22 is unusual at a

wedding. 20mm will get you too much distortion if you don't frame

properly. you can't tilt the camera at all and that can be difficult

especially witha wf. i concur with setting your focus closer to

infinity if you are going to do it.

i feel many pj type available light wedding shots are better with less

depth or field (how are you getting enough light to shoot at f22

anyway?)

 

the hexar af is a p+s and it is a damn good one. it is quieter than

the leica and the lag is NOT long. longer than leica but all cameras

have longer lag than leica except leaf shutter cams.

 

the t4 lag is a fun camera with a good lens but the shutter lag makes

it useless for candid shots imo. longest lag or all cameras i used.

the hexar af is a p+s and it is a damn good one. it is quieter than the leica and the lag is NOT long. longer than leica but all cameras have longer lag than leica except leaf shutter cams.

 

Well, what do i need to say.lag is NOT long. longer than leica. Need i say more. Jeez, i hate to be a smart arse. Nikon D100, Leica...your choice. All a load of BS, all that matters, is what works for you.

hey allen---

 

how long is the lag on the d100?

<A HREF="http://www.lightningtrigger.com/CameraCompatibility6/CameraCompatibility6.htm" TARGET="_blank">Click here for a decent list of camera shutter lag times.</A>

 

Unfortunately, there isn't a D100 time reported :(

Just my $0.02, but this is very recent experience (today), at the California Fine Art Market in Pasadena (a couple of streets were blocked off). I soaked in the atmosphere by milling around with everyone, and when I thought I'd faded into the background, I whipped out my big ol' F5 from my backpack, and guess what?? -- people noticeably stiffened up and/or looked away and/or worst of all, stare at me like I shoot for AP or the LA Times, and made ME feel like I was in front of the camera rather than behind it.

 

So I put away the F5, walked around for about 10 minutes to blend in again, then took out my handy and very small Olympus XA RF, and lo and behold -- people seemed to just ignore me (probably thinking I was just a tourist), which allowed me to snap away quickly (using zone focusing technique).

Hugh -- one other thing, if you want to adopt "street" technique for your weddings, learn ZONE FOCUSING.

I think that those who are advocating that Hugh go out and buy a Leica, for example, are missing what he's saying. He's already got the F3 and the 20mm, and he wants to use them. Based on the link that Mike provided, the F3 has little shutter lag at 55ms. OK, the Hasselblad is faster at 10ms with the leaf shutter lenses, but he's not going to run out and get one of those is he? (Well, maybe he should - a lot of people like seeing a Hasselblad at a wedding).<p>I think Jack's experience goes to show that you shouldn't whip out something big and ominous in this day and age. The attention was probably from the whipping out part and not the size of the F5. When I was in Toronto, an anti-war demonstration got going right outside the US embassy, about a block from the coffee shop that I was in. I walked right into it with my F3+MD4+35mm f/1.4 lens hanging from my neck. People saw that I had the camera, but they didn't really change their behavior. After a few moments, they forgot about me and went back to what they were doing. Even with the motor drive going, nobody really heard me with all the screaming and chanting going on. Heck, there were TV cameras and news photographers too with big Nikon D1Hs and what looked like 17-35mm zooms. They too were ignored. I think that if you look like you have nothing to hide, people will take you as you are. Plus, it's nice to have something to take their attention off you, which will definitely happen in a wedding, or a street demonstration.

Robert:

 

A part of what happens when you carry one of the "big gun" cameras, is that people assume, usually in error, that you are shooting for something "official" and they don't want to be involved.

Conni

All good advise, I most definetly looking into zone focus, and BTW I already use 2 Pentax 645N AF, a Blad xpan, an E20, and a Nikon N90s plus all the backup equipment, on my weddings this technique and camera is just to add a new dimension to the arsenal, so far the Voitlander looks like the most promissing one due to weight constrains.

 

Regards

 

Hugh