Single-Coated Medium Format Lenses for UV Photography?

While special lenses designed to transmit a wide range of ultraviolet

wavelengths are the best for ultraviolet photography, they are extremely

expensive. Outside of one lens once made by Hasselblad, I'm not aware of any

UV-specific lenses made for medium format cameras.

 

However, in the 35mm realm people have had some success using single-coated

lenses (such as the old Nikon Series E lenses) for ultraviolet photography.

These are not optimum and pass only the longest UV wavelengths but they cost

only a few percent as much as the UV lenses. The other problem with using

single-coated or uncoated lenses for UV photography is that they have not been

optimized to focus UV accurately so their performance apparently can vary from

decent to awful. From what I've read, whether a lens intended for visible light

will focus UV accurately seems to be mostly a matter of chance although simpler

lenses are said to have a better shot at success.

 

I have not been able to find any information on use of single coated or uncoated

medium format lenses for UV photography except for certain Nikkor EL (enlarger)

lenses which supposedly can be used if one can just work out some sort of mount.

I'm now looking at an 80 mm Mamiya TLR chrome lens for sale which would fit on

my TLR and which from what I've read ought to be single coated. However, I have

no idea if it would focus UV light even halfway decently and I'd have to buy it

and use it to find out. Has anybody else tried UV photography on a medium

format camera and have inexpensive lens suggestions that have been shown to work

passably well for this kind of photography?

 

Thanks,

Bill D.

Haven't heard of anything, but the Hasselblad UV lens is spectacular.

You can start with a camera with focal-plane shutter and bellows-focussing like the older bronicas or the Rollei SL66 and would elimante the need for adding shutters and helicals.

You could adapt about any lens at hand as long as backfocus is long enough to get to infinity and you manage to build some kind of light-tight connection.

Hi Bill: I might ask what type of UV photography you wish to do. There is UV-R reflected photography and UV-F flourecence. UV-R is best performed with quartz optics which are rare. Much UV photography involves UV-F. In this case most any high quality optic will work since you are not recording UV wavelengths but the product of the excititation of those high energy on the subject. This excitation can be many different colors but is almost always in the visable spectrum......Lou

Thanks for the responses!

 

To clarify, I'm looking to try UV-R photography. There is good information out there about single-coated 35mm lenses that happen to be well-corrected (however inadvertently) for UV-R use. For instance, see the lens ratings at http://www.naturfotograf.com/index2.html which are mainly directed at visible light use but which also include IR and UV ratings and narrative descriptions. However, I have not been able to find out if any single-coated medium format lenses are known to be usable for UV use, in particular the older Mamiya TLR lenses which are inexpensive and which might seem to be good candidates.

The problem with using regular lenses is not the coating. It's the fact that plain glass screens out most UV light. There are some lenses with radioactive elements which are easier to clear up if the problem elements are removed from the lens for UV treatment. Leaving them in makes the process take a lot longer. Both Nikon and Asahi made UV lenses but they are rare and expensive when you find them. As far as I know they were all made for the 35mm format. If you were doing macro photography with enough extension then you might be able to use one of these lenses with a medium format camera. For work at infinity the image circle would probably be too small. If you can't get the Hasselblad lens then trying UV photography with 35mm equipment is probably your best bet.

Jeff reminded me of the quartz 85mm lens made by Pentax (Asahi Optical). There were two, actually; an f/3.5 bellows lens in 1963 intended for UV photography, and then in 1968 a quartz f/4.5 Ultra-Achromatic in M42 mount. See Items 124 and 128 here: http://www.m-fortytwo.info/ViewAllTakumars.php

Thanks to Jeff and Doug for the additional information. Http://www.photo.net/photo/edscott/uv000020.htm suggests that glass is not really the main problem for photographing wavelengths from 300-400 nm. Someday I'll get a UV lens, but for now I'll be trying UV photography in 35 mm using older lenses suggested by various sources. The other needed materials will be arriving shortly. :-)

I;ve heard good reviews about the FA 600mm F4 ED [iF] Telephoto Lens smc Pentax.

As with IR lenses, you should be aware that when you focus, you do it with visable

spectrum, so you always have to correct this set focus to be sharp in the UV-R

wavelenght. Some lenses have the IR index, you'll have to make your own UV indexes

as well on your lenses.

 

Notice that IR needs focussing a little closer on the barrel's scale than visable light, so

UV will probably need to be focussed a little bit further, hope this will help. ;)

Have a look at my BLOG http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/ and you find (nearly) all your questions anwered since I started to deal with that some years ago and now have answers. Here are results/photos http://www.pbase.com/kds315/

 

Cheers, Klaus

<p>Your best bet for med. format UV lens would be the simple single or uncoated Tessars like Kodak Ektars. They are four element in three groups. The glass in them is not very thick (which is good). The 203mm Ektar was a four element air-spaced lens and might be better though I haven't tried it yet. A few Ektars are five element Heliars and might not be as good. If I remember, the 101mm was such a design. The best film for UV-R photography is Tungsten Fujichrome - RTP. Good Luck. Bob</p>

<p>There has been a UV Rodagon 150mm (just found one not to long ago). The UV Rodagon 60mm I also have, shows no focus shift at all and is a tack sharp lens.</p>

<p>Thanks for the additional responses. I dropped this effort for a time due to other activities but I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with the Mamiya TLR chrome lens I purchased which is single-coated and might just work for this purpose.<br>

Last year when I tried 35 mm UV photography, I used a Nikkor non-AI bellows lens with Tungsten Fujichrome RTP and ended up with nothing. I'll have try some more lenses like the Series E lenses which are supposed to be good for UV.</p>

<p>Bill DeJager</p>

Hi Bill,

 

you would be better off using a bellows and a Nikon E_Nikkor 75 or 135mm (the old chrome model)!

 

That works but shows some focus shift which couldmbe corrected after some tests. I made some tests about that here on my site:

 

<a href="http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/search?q=el+nikkor">http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/search?q=el+nikkor</a>

 

 

 

Cheers, Klaus

<p>Bill:<br>

Which Fuji tungsten slide film did you use last year? The current Fuji T64 film has very little UV sensitivity compared to the old Fuji 64T.</p>

<p>Alan, I used the current version, purchased last year. Thanks for the info- I was wondering what I was doing wrong or if the lens was more coated than I thought.</p>

<p>Any suggestions for good color films for UV photography? I'd like to try again when the sun is once again high in the sky and UV levels are up. Once I get the hang of the exposure and focus (for a given lens) I'll try it up in the high mountains where the UV is even stronger.</p>

<p>Klaus, I have looked for El Nikkors sporadically on KEH.com but the ones people recommend for UV use seem to be uncommon. I do have the 80 and one other one. I guess I'll have to try the well-known auction site.</p>

<p>Bill, you might indeed try the 'bay and see if you can find the older, full metal EL-Nikkor 135mm Version. Be sure it has the rear thread adaptor to M39 (there is a slimmer and finer thread mount inside which might fit a 25mm shutter). You may also need a front filter thread adaptor to be able to mount UV transmissive filters. If I remeber correctly it has 34.5mm filter thread mount which also is quite an odd diameter. I have one here usually to 52mm since I have "stabdardized" all my filters to that, which makes it easy to interchange them. B+W has the #403 UV transmissive filter, which is about Schott UG1, or you can get a Hoya U-340 or U-360 which may be found at times. The U-340 has the higher UV transmission though. If you can't locate that stuff, do drop me a note and I can help, I have several here, also a 135mm lens.</p><div></div>

<p>Sorry, just saw that the front thread is 43mm (not 34.5mm), makes it much easier.</p>

<p>Thanks for the suggestions. I already have a UV-transmissive filter and quite a variety af adaptor rings, and I'm mulling over my eBay options.</p>

<p>I have worked in this area and results and techniques used may be found here <a href="http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos">http://www.pbase.com/kds315/uv_photos</a> and here <a href="http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/">http://photographyoftheinvisibleworld.blogspot.com/</a><br>

Cheers, Klaus</p>