Second Shooter's Images- What do you do?

<p>I have a student coming with me in 2 weeks to shadow on a wedding and shoot a bit. I told her I would include her good images in with the bride's package. How do I handle this on an editing side? Do I edit her images the way I would anything else and give her the edited images to use in her own portfolio? Do I let her edit, sacrificing continuity in the design?<br>

How do you handle a second shooter's work?</p>

<p>I edit all image files that come to me from a second shooter so that the image files have a feel and a continuity with my image files. I would enjoy having them process the photos but when I've tried that in the past and it just doesn't work: the image files can, and sometimes do, turn out to be very different. It's like two artists paint a scene in their own style and the pictures can be very different depending upon how they approach processing.</p>

<p>I give the second shooter their RAW images and they can process in thier personal style and use them only for personal portfolio and not for web use. They are to give credit to my company as lead photographer but they can take credit for thier click and image. No usage allowed beyond personal portfolio to show to actual clients they may have some day.</p>

<p>After we finish the wedding shoot, we return to the studio and I download her stuff to my desktop and a copy to a hard drive. I then extract her cards and give them back to her to do her own editing, and she is free to keep anything she wants, and use it for self promotion as long as she clearly states that it was done while second shooting for me.</p>

<p>I load her work into Lightroom, edit it in the LR browser, and load that edit into my master file and sort by time shot so the time line is integrated with mine ... then correct and convert all those keepers for the client presentation. If she has a better shot than I do of any given scene I'll use it in the album presentation. </p>

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<p>Betty you want to make sure that your cameras are time synced so that you can put them all together and in order of time stamping makes sorting all that much easier. I work with a partner photog and we edit our own however any special things are completed when the album is being put together. For a true second I do all the editing. <br>

I think there is a difference between a second and a shadow. If she is going to shadow you she's going to get the same shots as you - or you can direct her to get profile shots while you are doing full face or zoom in while you are wide... that way she will get something different than you. My partner and I this a lot - we shoot oposite of each other and are always communicating... so we are not in each others shots... which can be a big problem with new second shooters.<br>

Good luck with that - should be fun!</p>

<p>So much to say, yet so much have been set already...<br>

As both an educator and a shooter, I can only add <em>educate</em> . Regardless of her official title with you on the job, she wants to learn. In the class, we can only teach so much but out in the field is where the fun begins.<br>

As for editing the work, you should choose and edited as needed. Costumers hired you for your style and not the student, however, if time permits see if you can spend it going through stuff showing why you shot the way you did as to what you were looking for and going through her stuff giving feedback. Back in wonderful medium format days we were teaching to be mindful of what one's shooting and why he/she is taking that picture because a wasteful shot is a waste of money. Digital changed that.<br>

Betty, thank you for your post and I hope you will have fun with your protege.<br>

Adam</p>

<p>You edit the images, and keep the images. She should not be able to use them on her website, only on her blog with your permission if anything and must site you as the photographer lead. As well, you will retain copyright of those images and they cannot use them in advertising. If they have a problem with this, hire someone who knows what they are doing. The only point of him/her being there is to be another eye, but working for YOU. </p>

<p>Cathy and David Bock-<br>

Honestly, I have no issue helping her learn the ropes and take her own images, edit them herself, and use them for her site or portfolio. They are HER pictures, afterall.<br>

I'm not there to limit her, I there to give her a venue to shoot.</p>

<p>Betty,<br>

What you arrange regarding the images is between you and her, BUT what about your clients' permission? If your second shooter doesn't have their permission for her to use them, that's a problem.<br>

My staff photographers and second shooters never get images. They're working for me and the images all belong to my studio. The releases I have from my clients are for my studio, not others.<br>

This is not only a common practice among studios, but also with all companies. There is a famous story about the 2 employees who created the Superman concept. The comic book company they worked for made a fortune and the actual creators died penniless. While this may seem unfair, remember that they were being paid a salary for all their creations that bombed as well. The company takes the risks, therefore they retain the profits. You can't have it both ways....-Aimee</p>

<p>She has permission from the clients to use her images for her own portfolio as examples of her work and on her website per my contract. She is working for me, but she is covered under my contract as in "students/second-shooters/and/or assistant freelance photographers"<br>

The client is well aware that their images will be used as example work.</p>

<p>If you have contract wording covering use of a clients images for self-promotional or educational purposes ... then it is between the photographer and second shooter.</p>

<p>When I worked for an ad agency, all my ideas and work was their property, and I could not profit from it separately. However, I could and would use the ideas and work to solicit gainful employment whether freelance or as an employee of another ad agency. The only caveat to that would be a non-compete contract which is usually for a set time period and very specific in wording. Without a non-compete contract, there is no way for the ad agency to deny my "right to work" soliciting other gainful employment.</p>

<p>Using the comic book example above ... while the Superman concept developed in the employ of the publisher could NOT profited from directly (which was the property of the publisher), the authors could not be stopped from soliciting other work in the comic industry based on their previous work for the publisher ... unless there was an iron-clad non-compete contract barring such activity. </p>

<p>The correlation to wedding photography would be that a second shooter could not sell prints to a client of a studio they did work for without permission from the studio. That would be profiting separately from property of the studio. However, the legal ground for denying use of the work to get other work is at best shakey ... and most likely illegal unless a specific contract exists between the studio and contract worker. </p>

<p>I suggest that studios that deny their second shooters the ability to use the images they shot to get more work consult your lawyer. </p>

<p>Hi I am a second shooter for 2 different photographers. I only shoot in Black & White. <br>

We start off by sinking the camera times! Basically what happens with me is they give me a card to use for the wedding, take the card after the wedding. The cards are all downloaded into LR, edited, sorted, renamed.<br>

If I want to use any of the images, I have to go to their studio with my own CD/DVD, copy my images and only use them for self promotion purposes...if I put them in a portfolio book as a hard copy, they are to have the name, address, and phone number of the studio I shot for somewhere clearly visible on that page ( I take some of the studio's mailing labels). <br>

If I put them on a personal webpage, at the top of the page (in very large print) it is to say "All Images taken while working for Blah Blah Blah at 116 Main Street, Somewhere, Somewhere, 123-555-4523. I also have to send the studio a link to view the page and include a link to their home page on my website.<br>

If I want them on a slide show, they are to have the studio copyright on the actual image during the slideshow, with the studio name, address, and phone at the end like credits of a movie.<br>

I am not able to use them in any other way. I have no problem with this at all!<br>

The images a second takes are the property of the studio they take them for. The second only has the right to use them with permission of the studio. <br>

Don't know if this helps or not...</p>

<p>Torri said' "The images a second takes are the property of the studio they take them for. The second only has the right to use them with permission of the studio."<br>

That's only true if it's in writing, or this is a work for hire arrangement. Otherwise a photographer's work belongs to them when it's created.</p>