Scratches on negatives - camera or processor?

I have found scratches on a few negatives in the last two batches of films

that I've had processed. Holding the negatives horizontally, the scratches run

left to right. Are these more likely to be caused by my camera or by the

machine processing the negatives? (before I take some more film back to the

same place for processing...)

Take a dummy roll of film (outdated, already exposed to light by mistake etc) and run it through the camera. Rewind the film leaving the leader out and then take it out of the camera. Roll the film out of the camera and examine if there are any scrathes. If there are, compare it with the scratches on the film you got from the lab. If there are no scratches of was probably the lab, their processing or printing machine.

It's probably the processor - although, depending on who did the processing, they might

deny that. I've had some nasty experiences with minilabs in the past - and since you are

talking about scratches, I once saw a kid at a minilab pulling the negs out of the processor ( I

guess he was being impatient ). That would certainly cause scratches. There is also the

possibility that particles of one kind or another can get into chemistry when it's mixed. If

you can, only use professional labs for your processing. It's been my experience that

minilabs at big box retailers are only concerned with moving quantity of material at the

fastest rate they can. I'm sure there are exceptions, but as a general rule, go to the

professionals who actually care about your work.

I would say its the processor, I can't really see the camera doing the scratching.

I too would suggest the processor. Film scratches from the camera are rare, while mini-labs that abuse film, eith intentionaly or unintentionaly, are common, if not the norm. Either use a quality processor or be prepared to have some processing problems from time to time.

 

- Randy

A camera can cause scratches, but it is normally the processor. (my local labs are at least willing to say when I come in "Mail it out this week" if they are having a issue. (One reason why I go back to them) To make sure run a cheep roll though your camera, and send it to another lab to see if you have scratches, if you don't, it is most likely the processor.

 

It can be fustrating, here is a great example of a great shot ruined by a processor.<div></div>

Good advice.

 

There are three or four places that this is likely to occur in the lab:

 

1. On entry to the film processing machine, or on exit.

2. When run through the hand "antistatic" brush right at the printer.

3. The printer itself- the gunk around the print frame.

4. The sleever that semi-automatically installs your negs in a sleeve.

 

I'd suspect the antistat or sleever if the lab is well maintained- because techs can get a little rushed and bang through these processes. If it's a good lab and worth it, talk to them about handling. Otherwise chances are good that any "lab in the box" will periodically do the same thing to you. Often, just some communication will fix the problem- at least for you, the "more particular" customer.

Incidentally, the method(s) you wish to use to print these damaged negatives will make a tremendous difference on how bad it shows up.

 

Minilabs use a Diffusion light system (traditionally) because it hides minor imperfections like dust or scratches, but prints a reasonably sharp image.

 

A CONDENSING enlarger will create a sharper image; but your scratches and dust will have to be retouched out after the fact- you can almost never avoid this when using such an enlarger / process.

 

A little trick that a lab tech showed me once is like this, (and sounds kind of nasty, but it works.)

 

Take your finger and get some oil from beside your nose or another oily spot on your face, and rub it into the scratch on the negative. This OFTEN fills the scratch enough that it is FAR less apparent upon printing.

 

Another thing to check is which side of the neg is scratched. The emulsion side is far worse a condition; the shiner, base, side can be dealt with using professional fillers or the tip above.

What kind of camera? I have a Richoflex that would demolish negatives even though I could not see what was causing it. If it's the camera, other rolls would be effected as well (in theroy)

Are you sure they aren't running from right to left? If right to left, it's the camera, left to right, it's gotta be the lab ;-)

 

In my experience, deeper scratches, and especially emulsion scratches, are the camera's fault. Here's what you can do right now to figure out for certain what it is:

 

Look at two rolls of film with scratches. If they're in the exact same spots on both rolls, literally identical marks, then it's your camera. If they are all over the place, it's the processor.

 

Incidentally, I'd just like to say that every pass through a machine of any sort, no matter how gently, is going to put hairline scratches on film. Even dust that goes in the sleeves with the negatives will scratch it as you take the film in and out of the sleeve. You can have a clean room environement and still get scratches due to dust. It's just unavoidable with the medium. However, scratches that actually *print through* will be much deeper. I've noticed that all the scratches I obsess about from passes through my minilab printer (which I have meticulously cleaned by taking the printer heads and rollers apart and dusting them religously without successfully eliminating the problem) don't do one bit of hurt on the prints, but the couple of customer rolls I've printed with camera scratches show up very plainly on the prints, unfortunately.

 

One more thing: nose grease can cure scratches on prints if the scratches aren't on the emulsion (dull side of the film) and they aren't deep enough. Also, condenser printers show more scratches than diffusers printers (yes there is such a thing as condenser color printing). IDK or care with how digital machines do it; 300dpi printers are the reason I went out and bought my own lab :-) I'd assume digital ice can fix them, but it "fixes" things like grain too, so unless you have the fine setting on which takes forever on your scanner, removing scratches digitally is a royal PITA. T

I have a question.

 

How do you tell the scratches are from left to right or right to left? Or do you mean they are on the emulsion side or the base side?

 

Thanks,

Tammy

It's impossible to tell just from examining the film. The base side of film is just as easily scratched in a camera as in the lab if the camera's pressure plate is scratched or dirty and the velvet lined gate of the film cartridge is also a likely place to suspect. Either of these could cause scratches in both directions and it may not be repeatable since the offending particle that caused the scratch may have left the scene of the crime, leading one to suspect the lab is at fault when it isn't.

 

john castronovo

tech photo & imaging

"Tamara Horton - Western NC , feb 14, 2007; 10:50 a.m.

I have a question.

How do you tell the scratches are from left to right or right to left? Or do you mean they are on the emulsion side or the base side?

 

Thanks, Tammy"

 

Sorry Tammy, that was supposed to be funny ;-)

 

The emulsion/base scratch part was serious though. Really they could run in either direction depending on all kinds of different factors, so I was poking fun at the poster's original post, as the processing machine, camera itself, and printer can all introduce opportunity to start with the "begining" with the leader, or end with the tape first.

I've just started using an old 120 folder, and I've seen scratches on all 3 rolls so far. One color and two b&w films. I though it was the camera, although I can't really find any chips or dents that may cause it.

 

It looks like the emulsion side is scratched, but since this is a negative I don't quite understand how the stripes end up being white.

 

This is the worst one of the bunch. Note that one scratch deviates slightly in direction from the other ones. <br>

 

<a href="/photo/5698481"><img alt="Crop from original scan, 2400dpi Agfa X-tra 400" title="Crop from original scan, 2400dpi Agfa X-tra 400" src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/5698481-sm.jpg" border="0" height="140" width="199"></a>

 

<a href="/photo/5698468"><img alt="2400dpi, Agfa X-tra 400" title="2400dpi, Agfa X-tra 400" src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/5698468-sm.jpg" border="0" height="199" width="191"></a>

Thanks - I haven't seen any more scratches since these turned up - but then I've changed the lab I take my film to. Shame though, as three rolls out of five were affected, taken on a probably never-to-be-repeated holiday. And the hassle I had to persuade security at the airport not to x-ray them! I'm much happier to blame outside influences than my Canon 300V.