Scams on the bay...warning red light.

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by luigi v, May 26, 2006.

  1. Back from "hell" (moving home, a nightmare of a month), back on the internet, back to the forum...
    Hope all of you are well...
    But what's been going on since the last month or so?
    I browse on the bay window shopping for Leica bits and pieces and suddenly I find all the Leica equipment
    I want/wished to buy at an unbelievable unrealistic affordable problem though: fifty per cent of
    it is suddenly located/made in China instead than Germany from zxyvdc1234 seller with zero feedback
    registered on the 25 of may 2006 and the other fifty per cent is on a buy it now for 900 USD from 100%
    feedback bay member please contact me outside the bay on my hotmail account ...and the trend seems to
    be just ever growing...I just stop browsing and give up my search, too many items seem to be just
    I many people are falling/getting fouled? Is there (there must be...) so many people out
    there suddenly willing to buy Leicas and/or willing to be frauded?
    I just start not trusting anybody anymore, even when the deal seems to be true-ish (have a look at item
    7418244045, item 7623722949, item 8941203127 to name a few...).
    Anybody on the forum got fouled (well, I hope not...)?
    Just to light up the warning red light if still needed...
  2. SCL


    In 4 years of buying & selling on Ebay (mostly Leica gear) I've had only one poor experience (never lost any money or got scammed though). Sorry you're not doing better. The good deals are there if you engage in due diligence and have lots of patience and are a good communicator.
  3. Camera gear and dates are two things I would be leery of getting on the internet, despite all the heartwarming stories you hear about both.
  4. Yes, it does seem to be silly season on eBay at the moment. There's one joker registered in
    Italy (but the goods are said to be in London) who is offering Leica stuff at silly prices
    (including a 1.2 Noctilux - they always seem to choose this one - see item 8817948298). His
    listing is plastered with the warning that 'for some reason he can't be contacted via eBay so
    contact him direct, and don't bid'!
  5. I reported him to eBay - he was listing an Ebony Large Format camera that was sold last week. And only two days ago he used a different Seller ID and did the exact same thing. I believe that he hijacks other people's seller-IDs and then posts all this stuff. The listings have been removed by eBay. Whenever you see something like that, please report it to eBay - there are too many people who are not as experienced with eBay who might buy from these guys and never see their money again (and certainly not the items they thought they bought).
  6. rj


    Similarily, I'm currently selling something on ebay and the winning bidder, actually the guy who used buy it now, won't pay and won't answer. I have to wait a week to wait a week to register it as a non-payment auction and then another week to wait for the buyer to respond and pay (which he won't). A serious time waste and a PITA.
  7. The paranoia and lack of common sense still continues to amaze me online.

    I have been using ebay for years, bought and sold items from $100 to $250,00 sans problems.

    I in fact purchased an M6 new and 50mm lens a couple yrs back from a guy (dealer) in China. No problems.

    PEople seem to be continually frightened by borders which is ignorance.

    I suggest using a bit of common sense. It is that simple. Ask questions and know what to ask. That is, follow the old saying, "buy the seller, not the product."

    It amazes me how people sell when they do not reply to Q's, are burdened to provide information or images, state obviously strange things as you have described.....

    If they do not have the ability to answer a Q, etc...or have strange unreasonable requirements, h@ll with them, they can keep it...fools.
  8. I bought all my Leica gear on eBay and most purchases were at a bargain price. I have an M6 classic (which did have to go to Sherry for $350, but I bought it for $1500 with a mint latest 50 'cron). I have 8 lenses for the M6 and a dozen vintage and new filters, hoods, and caps. Never a problem. All purchased within a year and a half of each other. But I walked away from a few deals that just didn't look right. It's not hard to spot them.

    There was recently silver 35 crons (3 available) up there for $500 on a buy it now. No way.
  9. I have been buying and selling on the bay since 98. Those scams aren't the problem since
    you must be a fool to think a 50/1.2 Noctilux can be had for $800. The problem is that it
    has become standard practice to exaggerate the condition of the item. I returned a 500c to
    Shutterblade last week that was advertised as EX "with very slight use". What I got had
    peeling vulcanite and generally looked like a dog had chewed on it. Enough for me. Now I
    only buy from KEH.
  10. I have had no problems with buying or selling items on eBay for many years. I realize that there are serious scams everywhere (not just eBay), but, if you have any doubts, simply, don't buy!
  11. Yes, recently a lot of fraud: on one, when you click on the "contact me now" hotlink it sends you to a scam ebay site that tries to lift your password. I sold an M7 and 4 lenses about 3 months ago, and since then I've seen my pictures on 4 different ads (that I've reported to ebay).
  12. Don\'t give up too soon RJ. There\'s a Rankin and a handful of others who Buy It Now to lock up the deal but drag out paying until they have collected from others.
  13. This is quite a serious issue. I recently went through the process of buying a SWC/M. In that process I followed the SWC/M auctions on the auction site. Very bad.

    Two things go on. The first is that within a day of a genuine listing a listing at ridiculous prices, same serial #, same pictures, same description and denominated in RMB with a low feedback China based seller would appear. I kept reporting these and they would disappear - but the question is where is eBay's root cause analysis and enduring action?

    Second a seller in Belgium sold two 903SWCs for large amounts - both to low feedback China based bidders - the same bidder. Blind Freddy could see that he should have ditched that bidder when they first bid, let alone letting them win. The bidder is now deregistered with -- guess what - non paying feedback for those items.

    Both buyers and sellers to blame and most particularly eBay is not seeming to deal with the root cause.

    Roger I feel for your problem.

  14. @Raymond: That is true. I agree. People tend to exagerate condition. But they do it everywhere.

    I purchased a 35ASPH from a long standing member here stating it was perfect etc. and it arrived to me with stiff movement and worn out missing paint, etc.

    I couldn't believe it. He was a long standing member here, so I didn't feel the need to ask for images after his description.

    Especially knowing how sensitive Leica people are to condition of their gear, ore than any other I could say.
    The problem as it seems to me as "condition" is such a subjective thing....

    I had an E-type Jaguar that I had for years, drove daily and restored maintained myself, for example.

    I ended up selling it, via ebay, and the fellow couldnt believ the poor condition, etc. and what it needed.

    I was actually offended! It was my baby!

    So, one must remember many are not blatantly lying about condition to make a buck, but it is a subjective thing.

    This is why it is so important to obtain detailed images.

    If a seller is not willing to provide them and do whatever necessary to make you feel comfortable (that is, within reason, buyers online can be incredibly impossible to please and expect so much more many times than if one were buying locally).....

    walk away!

    Sellers should be doing all they can to help and provide all the info they can and make buyers feel comfortable..within reason of course.

    Keep searching Luigi. With ebay one requires serious patience. After years of doing it, one can easily read between the lines. One geds the good feel or the bad.... Perhaps this takes time?

  15. "...most particularly eBay is not seeming to deal with the root cause."

    Mike, with millions of auctions going on the site daily what can you really expect them to do in dealing with the "root cause"? As you yourself said, you report them and they disappear. That's pretty good. Most of these scamming auctions would NEVER work if people used prudent good sense and not let their own greed cloud their judgement. In big city streets all over the world scammers sell shrink-wrapped digital cameras boxes filled with rocks to great success to the greedy who think they are getting some great deal. And also if it was a real camera, likely getting stolen goods. Do most people care? Of course not. Nice that someone is more than happy to get a great deal on what they know is a new camera stolen out of a delivery truck but are pissed off when they are scammed into buying a box full of rocks. The real root problem may be found in people's greed and the ability for the scammers to prey on such. Going further the "root" problem of crime and the social and economic forces that create it are far bigger than something eBay can be expected to deal with. If eBay posted in big read letters on the front page of the site that said: "DO NOT BE STUPID AND GREEDY. IF IT'S TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT LIKELY IS!" and people read and heeded this then the scammers would go away as they would get no business. Obviously, with all the scams that continue to show up on eBay those morons ignore such advice and keep lapping up the scams.
  16. The commonest one I have seen lately is stolen accounts. IMHO, don't answer any e-mail that ask your eBay ID and password and when you sell, spend a moment with photo software and add your ID on the pictures so scammers can't use it. Also if you see the seller is doing a 1 day private auction, be aware.<p>
    Good luck everybody.<p>
  17. Hi Richard,

    I hear what you say. My difficulty is that there are clear patterns about some of these rorts. Whilst I took the time to report them they disappeared when I stopped reporting them they stopped disappearing. The pattern is so clear that it is pretty susceptible to the use of some software solution.

    Second point is that I am reasonably clear for myself that the rorting listings, the non-paying high bidder and a third element - the second chance offer are all part of a single scam.

    I know with millions of auctions that it is hard; I've also had good deals on eBay; ultimately I observe that the quality of the marketplace appears to be falling.

  18. Well, truth is that its just as likely you'll be ripped off on this forum than on Ebay; it's just that the people here will do it with a straight face.

    I recently responded to a WTT 35mm f.25 VC for 35mm 1.7 VC and some cash, a listing here that stated that the 2.5 was in "perfect condition." I responded that mine wasnt perfect but the glass was fine etc. We traded. I get the 2.5 and its certainly not "perfect - worn paint etc, which doesnt really bother me because I buy my gear to use, not to sit on a shelf. What DID bother me was I then got an email from the other guy complaining that MINE wasnt perfect! What a twat.

    On the flip side, I recently picked up an M2 "user" on Ebay for $510. It was advertised with some crummy pics and noted it had a dent on the top. When I received it, it looked almost like it had never been used before with the exception of a miniscule indentation on the top plate caused by the meter (very common on unmetered leicas, as you know). Crystal clear viewfinder, ssilky smooth film advance, shutter dead on at all speeds. I'm sure I could turn around and legitimately sell it for $800.
  19. I have well over 200 trades on Ebay. Only two photography ones went sour. About 50% of all computer ones had a problem, and a couple of others went belly up. Generally speaking, I don't deal outside the UK. Ebay's much vaunted "Safe Trading" claim is worthless. Neither they, nor Paypal will do anything constructive to deal with a fraululent trade, but at least, in the UK we have the benefit of excellent trading laws, and a low cost (in my case, nil cost), Court system to enforce them.
    I recently received damages & costs through Preston County Court for ᆪ350 - but Ebay still refused to remove the negative feedback that this crook left for me.
    My one exception to this rule is Russia. I dipped my toe in, at very little cost, and was very pleased. I have since purchased a number of Leica copy lenses at silly money. Not all have been kept, but the dealings have been genuine. I had the unbelievable experience recently of telling one dealer that an Elmar copy, described as optically perfect, had two minor blemishes, and he immediately offered to send out a free replacement. Not only that, I said that the Jupiter 8 he supplied at the same time was sharp, but had poor contrast, and he told me that he would send out an Industar 26M at the same time as the other lens, & I could pay for it if I was satisfied with it. That is trust on BOTH sides.

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