Rude photographers......

I wanted to make an example of a rude photographer I came across

early one morning while at Arches National Park. I had crawled

through the "North" window, wanting to take a popular picture of

Turret Arch through this window. I looked over & saw two

photographers standing there, one of them with an irritated look on

his face. I hurried up, crawled down the rocks & out of the

way....went over & set up my tripod near these guys.

 

A few minutes later, an attractive young woman & her mother crawled

over the same location. This photographer goes "God, these

people"....then he yells out "People, could you please hold off for a

few minutes?". They crawled through & came over near us. I noticed

this guy was firing off shot after shot, while talking to his buddy

non-stop. Then, an older guy crawled through.....this photographer

yelled out the same thing, asking him to hold off for a few minutes.

The old guy crawled through (I was polite enough to let him use my 17-

40mm wide angle lens for a few pics). The (rude) photographer went

on about the previous evening at Delicate Arch.....he asked some

people there to stay out of his pictures. I guess some lady yelled

back at him & said "This is a national park!!"

 

Which is correct. I don't think photographers have any right to tell

people to get out of their way......one exception maybe being

Antelope Canyon, for a half-minute or so.....maybe thats not even

right.

 

When I got back to the parking lot, this guy & 2 others were standing

there babbling about the Rolling Stones....I doubt he was anything

more than a hobbyist.

 

My point to all this is.........we as photographers should be polite

to other people. Rude photographers like this guy give us all a bad

name.

I agree.

 

We should also be chivalrous. After yelling at the attractive woman, you should have nutted him and stole his camera equipment.

This reminds me of a nice article by Darwin Wiggett, <a href="http://www.naturephotographers.net/articles0303/dw0303-1.html">here</a>.

The attractive young woman looked to be around 20 yrs old, blonde, blue eyes, in her sweats & t-shirt.....still looking hot. She obviously was into photography, as it was 6:30 am in the morning when she showed up there.

 

Which supports my argument all-the-more: this guy was an idiot!!

Search on Naturephotographers.net for Pet Peeves.

I see nothing wrong with POLITELY asking someone to briefly step aside (and if they refuse, oh well...), but I, too, get irritated by photographers who think it's their mission to get a shot, at the expense of anyone else's enjoyment of the area. Besides, this guy wasn't exactly shooting anything that hasn't been done a million times before. Heck, half a million times it's been ME up on that rock shooting Turret Arch! Shoulda pushed him off his perch.

I like that Darwin article; with a name like Darwin how can you go wrong? If I showed up at some location and was faced with dozens of photogs all jockeying for position, my first thought would be "Hm, time to find a different shot..." No disrespect to some of the fine Moab shots we see around here, but... I guess I don't see big value in reproducing images that have been done soooo many times before. Maybe there's an man vs. nature shot in it, showing the gangs of photographers lined up, fighting each other trying to show the beauty of their surroundings...

 

Aside from pissing off attractive young ladies and other bad karma, there's another reason to watch our manners out there. Too many of these stories get around, and you might see new restrictions on what photogs are allowed to do. The National Park Service hasn't always been accomodating to shooters in the past; wouldn't want to give them any excuses to make things harder. Just $.02...

I find that asking very nicely if I could get an unobstrocted shot does wonders. I usually explain it will only be for a moment with an explanation as to why that moment is important (such as the light is about to change or something). Most are happy to help. Often you encounter some nice conversation. Other times I'll ask people, who get out of the way on their own, if they can stay put so I can get a sillohette in the scene or something. Generally, honey catches more flies.

 

When someone is not cooperative, there is little you can do. If you stammer and fret, they may stay longer out of spite. If its a must have shot, I would take it and try to incorpoate the person or group or PS them out later if they are relatively small in the scene.

 

Tourist spots, car shows and other crowded areas are very difficult. You frequently have to alter your shooting technique. Sometimes that is good because more original ideas can be explored.

 

On a recent trip through San Francisco, I stopped by the overdone and cliched windmill in Golden Gate Park. The place has benches set up right in front of the thing. A lady was breastfeeding right in the middle of everyone's shots. I wonder what the reaction would have been if she was asked to get out of the way.

I feel I have no right to ask anyone to move, so if the conditions do

not change, I will just wait until they clear the area. If the conditions are changing, I'd ask them to move as a favor to me. Recently

I've found myself doing the opposite, waiting for "models" to move in

the picture. This often makes for better stock sales...

<a href = "http://terragalleria.com/stock-photography.html">Terra Galleria Stock Photo</a>

In NY we politely yell,"hey,Im taking a f--king picture over here"(think Brooklyn accent).Sometimes we photographers do get too absorbed in our own importance and act like jerks.

Next time don't crawl through the window, crawl to it and set up your camera right there, and take lots of pictures of photographers who are all fidgeting, waiting for you to move.

 

Well, we wouldn't do such a thing, would we? But it would be the sort of symmetry people have in mind when they say "what goes around, comes around."

 

Be well,

This is funny to me because the first and last time I took this completely overdone shot, the same thing happened. Only, the people who got in the way included a Native-American woman dressed in traditional dress, so the photographers shouted "Get out of the way", followed by "No, wait...Point over that way" click click "Now, get out of the way... " True story. I can see if you are doing a shot that is actually unique, but to get all hot and bothered about a stupid postcard shot like that shows just how unprofessional you are on so many levels. :)

That guy obviously was a foolish, Hells Angels, "I am the god of postcard photography."-type of guy. I think it would be a priviledge to have a 20-something year old woman shooting in my presence. I don't see many people my own age shooting at strange hours, much less women out there.

 

Sometimes people move out of the way when I don't want them to! Once they see you shooting their direction, they feel bad and just move when in reality my shot was based on their presence. I must admit that I did get irritated at Joshua Tree once. While shooting a sunset, one guy practically set his tripod up with his ass on my lens. I consider that to be disrespectful. Ok so you decide to walk by when I'm shooting. Thats cool. But don't park your butt a foot from my face.

As a photographer, I have no problem asking people to stay out of my frame for a moment or two, but I ask nicely & see it as them doing me a favor that I should be thankful for & not necessarily expect. If I am shooting something that includes a main access point in my frame, I wouldn't even bother asking as its pointless & is my burden since I am the one who decided to include it in my frame.<p>

On the flip side, if I am walking about & notice someone setting up to take a photo, if possible, I try to stay out of their way until they are done with the shot.

Haven't been to Arches in years, but this did cause me to think of the times I've been out photographing various waterfalls here in Oregon and people were so incredibly polite... quickening their pace to get out of the way as I fiddled with my gear. Had to share that.

Hmmm... it is not easy to enjoy being (BEING, instead of photographing) in Antilope Canyon thanks to all the photographers there, putting up a huge tripod around EVERY corner and trying to get every other human being out of the way (and into the way of the next photographer). And this was early may 1999, suppose it is much worse now in 2004 and around summer.

 

Can't blame the native Americans for keeping some of their sacred places to themselves...

 

And yes, I brought a camera, and no, I have Never Ever asked somebody to move aside because I think I have more right to photograph a place than that other person has a right to be there, but that is just my opinion :-)

Saw a couple in Canyonlands on the plateau (not needles, not the maze, but ...?) near the famous arch on the edge (forgot the name) who wanted everybody to move aside, FAR away from the arch (in quite a demanding tone), but they never looked trough the arch and down, missing the best part...

here is how to tel lthey weren't pros

 

1.) they were there during a season of h=increased tourism (after Memorial

Day and before labor Day).

 

2.) They weren't there before dawn and finished slightly thereafter , or after

sunset.

 

3.) they didn't understand that photos of big things with people make

interesting photos.

 

4,) "Rude photographers like this guy give us all a bad name. " well it is better

to pay attention to your behaviour (and lead by example) then to worry about

people who don't get it.

 

Bravo to the woman who told them off.

I was going to post something similar recently. Last week (before Memorial Day!:) I was in the Great Smoky Mtn. National Park. I was up before dawn and everything was great - then. After cruising and shooting along The Motor Nature Trail and seeing no one, I headed up towards Clingman's Dome. Still there wasn't much traffic. I would pull my car off the side of the road - not even in an "official" parking area, and hop down the bank to shoot some waterfalls, etc. Every time - and I'm talking 8 or 10 times - someone had to pull off too, even if there wasn't enough room to do so. In one instance, I was shooting some Amanita mushrooms and a couple came running up, practically screaming "Where's the bear? Where's the bear?" (If they see someone taking a picture, there *has* to be a bear, right?) A moment later, this same couple stood *between* my camera and the mushrooms, stomping on one of them, and began shooting the same thing with an APS P&S Kodak. I moved on. Next stop was in some high altitude fir forests near the top. Same thing, except this time, I was photographing a very old Frasier fir that was lit really well. Some guy sees me, locks up his breaks, and hurls himself out of the car. Again, he gets between me and the tree, and this time whips out a *video* camera, panning up and down the tree for 5 minutes. (I bet his neighbors can't wait to see that action!) Finally, I headed back, but on the way, thought I'd grab one more "road shot". Again, I pulled well off the road and hopped over the bank. I was in a stream with my tripod, clicking away, when I heard a noise. I looked up. There was a man *running* at me, almost tumbling into the stream, screaming "What kind of camera do you have?", while waving his wildly in the air. I mumbled "canon" under my breath and folded my tripod. He went into a long dissertation about how much better his Fuji is than a Canon, how he only paid half price, new, blah, blah, blah, and proceeded to follow me all the way back to my car, never shutting up the whole way. After getting in and buckling up, and this guy's mouth still running a mile a minute, I interrupted him and asked "Say, you haven't seen anyone else around here have you?" He looked both ways and said "No!" I said "Exactly! Now why would I want to spend my day with you?" I started my car and drove home. Perhaps I snapped and was overly rude to this last guy, but I figure that I might've saved some other poor photographer a similar experience. End of rant . . .

Just a funny sidenote.....I saw this same guy at Canyonlands, just as I was driving away from one of the overlooks. He was standing there talking to someone. I was tempted to pull over, whip out my camera, & yell out "Buddy, could you PLEASE step aside, you're blocking my shot!!"

First, I agree with ellis. I'm usually gone before tourists get there. For $50 you can arrange with most parks to be in before they open. Second, I would never ask somone to move. If they ask, I'll say thanks and work fast. Third, being I don't do stock photography, I would rather get off the beaten path and find something less photographed and more original. It's maybe why I live a couple of hours from antelope but never photographed there.

 

However, I have had some bad experiences with other photographers. I had one guy setup right in front of me; a couple of yards. Granted, it was dark and he _may_ not have saw me, but once I said good morning and he saw I had my tripod set up and my camera perched on it, you'd think they would be polite and move? No! It was so-and-so and I should have been happy about his presence. This was right out the backdoor of a cottage I was renting!

Beau, you must have accidentally hit upon some "idiot pheromone" with an unlucky combination of innocent things like soap, shampoo, laundry detergent, sunscreen and maybe Waffle House coffee or something.

 

You need to go home and throw out everything scented and buy different brands, or those poor helpless idiots will be forced to come crashing through the woods after you, wherever you go!

 

Now if you get the right combination next time, you will instead be followed by beautiful, sensuous people with nothing better to do than cook French food for you and massage your temples.

 

I can vouch for Lever 2000, Tide with Bleach Alternative and Altoids cinnamon gum: no trouble attracting hapless idiots. Alas, no effect on sensuous Cordon Bleu masseuses either...

 

Be well,

Sometimes it works the other way around. Two years ago in April I was at Bryce Canyon, photographing sunrise from the rim trail. At this section in Bryce there is a fairly long stretch (say at least a half mile) with a paved path that is literally five feet from the canyon rim, and every 20 yards or so there are small benches next to the path where you can sit down to enjoy the view. It was a cold sunrise and I was the only person around for quite a ways. To avoid getting flare on my lens I set up in the shadow of a pine tree that was right on the edge of the rim, but the only shaded area for quite some distance in any direction.

 

At this point I'm shooting away when a man and his daughter come walking down the path to enjoy the sunrise. Of course of the 5 or 6 benches in the near vicinity of me (all with an identical view of the hoodoos) they decide to walk right past most of them and plunk themselves down on the bench right behind where I'm shooting. About 10 seconds later I hear from behind me "hey buddy could you move out of the way, you're spoiling the view for me and my daughter". My usual instinct would be to shrug my shoulders and move away just to avoid this jerk, but given the shot I'm trying to make, I really want to stay in the shade of this tree. So I tell the guy why I don't want to move. His response "you've taken enough shots from that spot, why don't you just move along". So its not just photographers who lose all politeness in national parks. So I moved 50 yards or so down the trail. Within a minute of setting up in my new spot, guess who's walking down the path behind me heading back to the parking lot.

 

Ed McGuirk

<I>Beau, you must have accidentally hit upon some "idiot pheromone" with an unlucky combination of innocent things like soap, shampoo, laundry detergent, sunscreen and maybe Waffle House coffee or something.</i><BR><BR>Jim's probably right - although I really didn't get to the Waffle House that morning. I used to live near the Smokies and we always referred to them as "Tour-ons", which is a cross between a tourist and a moron. I was trying to think of a "Tour-on" repellant - the opposite of Waffle House coffee, if you will. Lacking such a discovery, I thought that perhaps an Osama costume might work, but with my luck the Park Service would shoot me in the butt with a dart and relocate me to Afghanistan. Best wishes . . .

"I find that asking very nicely if I could get an unobstructed shot does wonders..."

 

This was my quote. After reading some newer responses, I should clarify that I believe requests for a quick moment should be made sparingly for those "critical" shots where it is actually and reasonably important to you. Anyone so requested can decline.

 

I did so recently in a sense. During the same SF trip, I was early in line for a boat tour of the bay (along with others seeking a good position or seat) I took a only few point and shoot pics. At one point some guy with his freinds crassly declared to some of us, "Those who are not taking pictures should get out of the way!" There were actually plenty of other, less desirable but, suitable vantage points available to them. I would have moved if asked in a civilized manner. (Though I don't think these guys would have let me back to the spot and others would have probably moved in anyway) After a little while, I gave the spot to a nice German couple.

 

Photograhpy and human nature makes for an interesting topic doesn't it?

I've got a better one. This is a phenomenon I've learned to call the 'invisible deflector field', and is basically the weird effect of people walking around or behind you to try stay out of the way of your camera.

 

Oddly, the strength of the effect is directional proportional to the size of my camera. I was standing with my 10D at the end Grand Haven Pier the other day, and I'd say half the people walking by 'altered' the path they took even though my camera was at my side. Must be that sinister looking 20mm Sigma 1.8 I guess. 'Shhh.....he's taking pictures...lets not get in the way'. Mind you, my camera is at my side and I'm a pretty low profile photog.

 

Now, if I had been standing there with my RB and 180mm or 250mm lens, my experience is that half the folk would refuse to walk in front of me even though my camera would be parked at my side. Don't you love it when people stop next to you waiting for you to snap the shot asking obiediently when they can pass, even though your camera is swinging at your side with the back open or lens off it?