Rollfilm View Camera w/ Movements. . .

I've been wanting to get serious about architectural photography for

some time now. I was considering a shift lens for my Nikons, but the

cost is prohibitive for something less versatile than a view camera.

Used, a 35mm shift lens costs something like $500.

 

Can I get a decent used monorail (or maybe a field camera with good

movements) with a wide lens and a rollfilm back for $500? I do shoot

a fair quantity of medium format stuff, typically with a TLR, but I

don't really want to shoot sheet film. Considering the cost/frame,

and also considering that I don't make huge prints, I'd like the

option of shooting 120. Am I going to find anything in this price

range, or should I just shell out for the 35mm shift lens? I don't

need anything elaborate or pretty, just functional. And the lens

doesn't have to be anything special, either -- after all, all it's

got to do is beat 35mm, and it'll have four times the film area to do

so. Plus, it won't have to cover 4x5 with movements; it'll be good

enough if it covers 6x7 or 6x9, depending which back I get.

 

So, is there something out there?

 

Thanks in advance for you advice.

I don't think you are going to be able to do it for $500. You ill be able to come close

but it will still be over. Since you noted that your primary interest is architectural

photography then you will need a camera with reasonable movements. If you are not

daunted but the weight and size of a monorail there are several that should be

available used in the 200 to 300 range (Calumet, Toyo D, Graphic, and even the older

Linhof Kardan's). If you do decide you want a field camera make sure you get one

with sufficient movements to meet your primary need. As for lenses there are any

number of options that will be under $300, even a 65mm Angulon for as little as

100-150 (although its performance is way below that of current lenses). A good

rollfilm back (Horseman, Wista, etc.) will cost you in the range of 175 - 250 for either

a 6x7 or 6x9 depending on the condition. Soooo .... adding up the lower numbers

you may come close but it will be tight, even tighter when you add a tripod (if you

need one) and a light meter (if needed).

 

As for trading off between this and a Nikon shift .. there really isn't a tradeoff ... the

shift lens is superb optically for waht it is but you will not get what you need to do

'serious' architectural photography. Further, are you really sure you want to go the

rollfilm route? You can go with sheet film and as long as you take only a few shots of

each subject keep your film costs in the same ballpart without sacrificing anything in

size and giving yourself the ability to operate somewhat faster.

 

I suggest you rent both the shift lens and a LF rig before you buy and see what you

want ... LF is a dramatic change from 35mm in terms of shooting style and

philosophical approach to your subject as well as in in size, weight and cost.

 

Good luck

How about an old Graphic View camera, the second model with a Graflok back and a Graflex roll film holder (get the model with a wind lever--they have better film flatness). You'd have all the movements you'd ever need. You might come in under $500. The problem is lenses for such a set up. For architectural photography you need wide lenses and most common lenses with a roll film holder are, of course, normal or long. I shoot with a Shen Hao with a Graflex 6x7 back and need something shorter than the 90mm Super Angulon I have. I've been toying with the 65 mm Super Angulon f/8, which, it is said, will only barely cover 4x5, but will have some coverage on 6x7. (They show up for little money on E-Bay.) You'd have to check into minimum bellows extensions on whatever camera you bought (I'm not sure about the Graphic View--see the Graflex site for specs.)

 

View camera movements will do a great deal more than a shift lens, but all told I'm not sure you could get going for less than $500.

Plenty of used monorails out there for around $300 for the body. Stick to classic lenses, and you might be able to put something together for around $500. I would get a 4x5" with a Graflok-type back, and if you want to use rollfilm, get a rollfilm back. There are fewer choices in dedicated medium format view cameras, but one option in your price range would be a used Galvin 6x9 monorail.

I wrangled over the same issue for a couple of years, Andrew. Considered field cameras, view cameras, the Calumet Cadet, the Crown Graphic, even the nifty li'l Gowland Pocket View - anything to keep it affordable, reasonably lightweight, flexible and compatible with standard rollfilm backs.

 

Putting together a *quality* LF kit for less than $1,000 turned out to be a fairly daunting task. First, I wanted good rollfilm backs, not just affordable ones. Good and affordable ain't an easy combo. If film flatness and reliable transport are important to you (obviously this is a rhetorical statement), you'll want the better backs. Otherwise you wouldn't bother with the LF route in the first place.

 

Then there's the issue of getting a good and affordable wide angle lens without too many compromises. Again, not an easy task.

 

After about two years of shopping, studying and asking questions I realized there was no way, short of stumbling across one of those unpredictable bargains, I was gonna get what I needed for less than $1,000-$1,200.

 

Then, a couple of years ago, I was in a nasty car wreck that left me with a permanently banged up back, neck and gimpy right leg. No way I could comfortably hunch over a ground glass finder, or tote the necessary gear required for reliable results in LF, especially the heavier tripod.

 

In the end I got a 28/4 PC-Nikkor. The only remaining challenges have been finding the best film for the job and recognizing that it's all a compromise. For my purposes it was a good compromise.

 

Not that I don't still think pretty often about going with LF gear, if only to use with 120/220 rollfilm.

hi andrew:

 

places like equinox photographic in oregon tend to have a ton of classic lenses.

fee-bay will have a bunch too, and you can check out graflex.org's "lens chart" to see

if the image circle will cover whatever format you choose to use. ( the lens chart is

burried in the "lens area")

 

a used 4x5 graphic view will not be able to take a lens wider than maybe 90mm since

the bellows is fixed. paq.net published a conversion to install a bag bellows and

allow it to be an ultra wide camera ...

 

good luck!

 

- john

If architectural means you will be wanring to shoot interiors, that's probably the most financially demanding form of photography. If you can confine yourself to exteriors, for awhile, at least, your $500 budget could work, given some patience in finding the rght items.

 

For a camera, the Graphic View II mentioned above is good, but only if with a Graflok back, and in excellent working order. These have been around a long time and it isn't uncommon to find one that is worn out. I like the Calumet CC400 series a little better. They have a simpler focusing arrangement and Calumet still provides lensboards and, I think, some other support. Both of these have full movements, though the range of most of the movements is somewhat limited. Burke & James sold several view cameras. Their "Orbit" in the 4" X 5" size is the same as the Calumet. The 5" X 7' Orbit, however, has a removable back that you can adapt a Graflok back to, and be able to use the less expensive rollfilm holders. The Calumet has a spring back and the holders that will fit are more expensive and harder to find. The "Saturn" is similar to the 5" X 7" Orbit, but with a bigger monorail and rack and pinion focusing. The "Grover" is an entirely diferent camera. It is somewhat finicky to use, but has a longer rail and very liberal movement capabilities plus a removable back on all sizes. The B&J wooden flatbed view cameras also have very great movement latitude. Their biggest disadvantage is that for full bellows extension they require an extension bed piece that very often has been lost. At one time there were four up on eBay, and only one was complete. They, and the Grover, are also often missing knobs, but they are easy to replace if you don't mind an appearance mishmash.

 

Regarding lenses, it seems to take thirty-eight pages to say much about them. I've written a thirty-eight page booklet which I will send you no chatge, if you give me your address. It won't tell you what lens to buy, but it will give you the background for an intelligent choice.

If you get a 4 x 5 camera, and use it with a 120 roll film back, you are in effect multiplying the focal length of any lens by a factor of approximately 1.6. Thus, a 90 mm lens is considered moderately wide angle for 4 x 5, but is a normal lens for 6 x 7. To get something that will function as a reasonable wide angle lens, you will have to get a very short focal length length lens, and such a lens is likely to be quite expensive. If you want medium format with movements, it would be better to get a view camera designed explicitly for medium format and appropriate lenses for it. Such a camera is likely to be pretty expensive.

 

I know about this because I've been through it. I have had a Horseman Technical Camera for 40 years. I also have three Horseman lenses designed for that format, 65 mm, 90 mm, and 150 mm. Such a system would probably work quite well for what you want to do, although its movements are limited compared to a monorail 4 x 5 view camera. Unfortunately, you may find it a bit too expenive. But you could look around for such a system at ebay or at dealers in used equipment. Of course you could always check the papers for my obituary to see if my wife wants to sell it. ;-)

Ok. A rollfilm adapter could be had for, lets say, $150.

 

Fair condition Speed Graphic with a good 127mm $150

 

Older 4x5 monorail with Graflok back to fit rollfilm adapter $200

 

sure, it can be done. probably even cheaper. just wait around for a good deal.

Earlier this year I saw on e*bay a guy bought a like new cambo 23SF for around $500(seller was robert white I think) and later sold it for $850. I'm still feeling anguish missed that deal.

If you can live with 6x6 or 6x7 images, then you should be able to accomplish this with a proper view camera (no offense intended, Graflex fans) for under $500. With a bit of luck and some patience and time, you should eventually be able to find a Galvin view camera for $250; a late-version Graflex 6x7 back for $75, and a 55mm Mamiya TLR lens for $125-150.

 

Of course, you'll need to remove the lens from the Mamiya TLR mount and then figure out a way to adapt the shutter so it'll work with a cable release (the cheapest, easiest way is to reinstall the elements in another Copal 0 shutter which, with luck, you can find attached to a Tominon 105mm lens from a Polaroid copy camera for $30 or so) but it will cover 6x7 with just a hint of darkening in the corners. If you can live with 6x6, it won't be as wide as it is with 6x7, but you'll cover the format completely and gain a few mm of rise/fall in return.

 

Another source of good quality lenses for medium-format view cameras are the Mamiya Press/Universal and Polaroid 600SE lenses. You'll have to remove them from their helical focusing mounts and then adapt the factory shutter release linkage so it still works (which isn't hard, but does require some mechanical ability and access to tools), but the end results are quite cost-effective. I assembled a four-lens outfit -- 50mm/f6.3, 75mm/f5.6, 127mm/f4.7, and 150mm/f5.6 -- via eBay over the course of a year for around $650 (nearly half of which was for the 50mm lens) and for the money, these lenses are remarkable performers. Plenty of movement for 6x9, although the 50mm will run out of rise/fall after 5-7mm (which isn't a problem for me, though, as I shoot 6x6 and it has plenty of rise/fall for this format), but for the money...

 

If you're going to shoot only 120, be wary of budget-priced 4x5 lenses as their shortcomings may be more visible due to the greater degree of englargement your prints will need; on the other hand, you'll also be using only the center portion of the lens, which may compensate for the difference in englargement and then some.

 

The bottom-line is that, Yes, you can do what you propose and IMO, this is a good way to get started with a view camera, especially if you shoot color.

Calumet CC400 $125-$200

 

Ilex 65mm Acugon $225-250

 

23 Graphic holder (perferably with a lever rather than a knob, and perferably a newer Singer model) $100

 

or

 

 

Calumet C2 rollfilm holder $100

 

 

Definitely doable, but you might spend closer to $600.

Well I suppose anything can be done if you're willing to put up with enough aggravation, problems, and limitations but realistically no, I don't think you can get an outfit you'd be happy with starting from scratch and buying a monorail camera (a Graflex for architecture?), wide angle lens (a maximum of 65mm if you're going to use roll film, preferably 58mm or even shorter, and for architecture you'll need plenty of movements, all which equates to cost), tripod and head suitable for a monorail camera, roll film back, backpack or case to carry it in, dark cloth, color correction filters, and loupe for under $500, not if they are all in good condition and properly working. This even assumes you could use your existing camera as a light meter (more weight to lug around, larger back pack needed). If that isn't feasible then you have to throw a light meter into the cost. You might eliminate the loupe by using the 50mm lens from your 35mm camera as a loupe. You might eliminate the dark cloth by using a black T shirt. You might buy a broken camera and fix it, all of these and other cost savings measures might get you under $500 but how happy will you be using a makeshift outfit like that?

I concur with Brian above. Anything worth doing is worth doing right, and if

you have been doing architectural photography already with the Nikon and

want to step it up a notch and do it right, you'll need the proper equipment.

Don't put obstacles in your way with compromises. Since I constantly shop

around for deals I can say that for your price point I could barely buy the

proper lens. You should seriously consider shooting 4x5 film in b&w while

you practice and them shoot color. Don't forget that as important as the camra

is, the lighting setup for interiors work, and knowing how to use it is even more

important. It is an interesting career path and I would prefer to see you obtain

equipment that will motivate you to get out and do it. Best of luck.

I have a tripod, a head, a loupe, and a light meter already. I also have a backpack. I won't be using color correcting filters, as I plan to shoot mostly B&W; I'll probably just use a yellow filter, maybe sometimes a green one. I've been looking on eBay, and I might be able to do it -- there are a lot of wide angles out there that don't quite cover 4x5 but will work for 6x7 w/ moderate movements. A lot more will cover 4x5 with no movements. Wide angles with big coverage are where you start spending real money.

The problem is cheap cameras tend to lack the ability to use really short lenses. A wide lens for 6x7 is going to limit you in the search for cameras. Neither of my cameras could easily handle something that short. If you could live with 4x5 film then doing it for much less then $500 would be easy.

Hi Andrew. I was reading your post just above and was thinking, gee that 6x7

frame is sure going to be fun with movements; and your going to need a real

wide lens with that framing.

 

I own three rollfilm backs. They look real pretty sitting in my drawers for over a

year or more now. Their just not fun to use, but some love em I guess. I always

found removing the gg and replacing with the back a chore. (Btw, I have a

back for ya at a decent price.) Once you get any back you need to measure it

and mark the gg since not all 6x7 or 6x9 frames are alike. Since it seems that

you'll be shooting outside alot, and I guess in town, are you looking just to

have fun and practice or are you looking for a market?

 

I was thinking that working with a 6x7 or 6x9 frame on a LF monorail would

probably drive me to a pc lens for the 35mm real fast. What's your print sizes?

Recognizing that you may need to make some compromises, the camera that might meet your needs is the old Calumet wide-field view camera. You would want to make sure the bellows is in good shape. Because these cameras don't have a Graflok international back, you would need a Calumet C2 slide-in 6x7 back. I've seen these cameras sell for about $250.

 

As for a lens, I was thinking of an old 58mm Grandagon XL. These will just barely cover 4x5, so they would have decent movements for 6x7. I've seen these sell for about $350.

 

A question that I would have is whether or not the Calumet wide-field camera can handle a 47mm lens with a 1" recessed 4x4 lensboard? Perhaps someone else knows. The 47mm lens on 6x7 corresponds well to a 75mm lens on a 4x5. Assuming that you could purchase other lenses, if it will handle a 47mm lens, then you would have a camera that would handle just about any reasonable architectural situation.

 

As to compromise, you may need a fairly recent C2. I've heard older models don't work so well sometimes. Also, the Calumet wide-field is a fairly heavy camera, although not prohibitively so.

I use a 6x9 slide mount that I got from in from The Stock Solution ( http://www.inkjetart.com/sp/ ) to mask off the 6x9 area of my view camera. These mounts are perfect for this because the outer dimensions of the mount are 4x5.

 

Earlier I recommended a Calumet cc400 as possibility, but that wouldn't be a good choose for roll film holders unless you limited yourself to the Calumet holder or other holder that can slide under the ground glass such as the Horseman or Toyo roll holders, because it doesn't have a graphloc back. The bale opening does however have plenty of room for a slide holder.

 

The other reason the cc400 isn't going to work is as other have pointed out it's minimum extention isn't really short enought for a 6x9 wide angle, even with a recessed board. There was a wide angle version of the cc400 with a bag bellows and recessed board, but they are harder to find and more expensive. Probably a better option would be an older model Omega (Toyo) monorail. You would need a recessed lensboard and eventually a bag bellows to get full movements, but an Omega or Toyo can be had for as little as $200- and still be fully compatible with current accesories. Another option would be a used Calumet Cadet Wide body with bag bellows.

 

The cameras I've mentioned are all pretty hefty, and don't lend themselves to backpacking (that's one of the reasons they can be had for so little; the other being there were alot of these suckers made), but often do come with their own "anvil" cases. When I was in college lugging around cc400 for my architectural class, I just put the case into a $20 "Pop Cart", which was basically a folding plastic crate on wheels, and was able to easily move from site to site. Since most architectural is done in urban areas where there is plenty of pavement or sidewalk to roll a cart on, this is a viable alternative to backpacking.

 

If backpacking is important to you then the camera you want is an older model Series III Arca Swiss (which have many incompatibilities with current Arcas, but costs about $400, and significant movements can be made with a 65mm on a deep recessed board using standard bellows. The leather wide angles bellows really versatile however.) Another good chose would be a Linhof Kardan Super Color, that would cost about the same.

There's a Galvin 2x3 monorail on the 'Bay right now, in your price range, go buy it. Once a year a Gowland 2x3 might appear, another good choice.

 

Graphic 2x3's come up now and them, though I personally wouldn't recommend them, old, hard to work, limited movements. But I did buy one with a lens and rollfilm holder for under $300. I got rid of it because the RFH was unreliable, the rise was not enough, and it was a crappy little camera.