RETINA-ROTELAR 135mm f/4 fits?

Discussion in 'Classic Manual Cameras' started by gregory_nicholson, Oct 20, 2005.

  1. I recently purchased a RODENSTOCK RETINA-ROTELAR 135mm f/4 lens and
    while it has Retina printed on the front of the lens it would not
    fit on my Retina S camera. The lens mount is very similar to my
    other Retina lenses but it just doesn't fit all the way into the
    camera. I also have the Schneider-Kreuznach 135 f/4 and the two
    lenses look identical except the Rodenstock is about 5mm shorter. Do
    you know which camera this lens fits?

    Also, I have Ivor Matanle's "Collecting and Using Classic SLR's" and
    the only Rodenstock 135 f/4 bayonet mount lens listed fits the
    Retina cameras. This lens should be a Retina "S" mount but it just
    doesn't fit. Any ideas?
     
  2. Hey there,
    There were two different lines of lenses for the Retina cameras, and they are NOT interchangeable. One line was made by Rodenstock, and one line was made by Schneider-Kreuznach. It would seem as though you have a lens from the other line.
     
  3. Gregory, according to my retina books ,they say this lens does fit the s mount.Could the Lens mount have been adapted to fit another camera? I believe that some of the retina lenses fit another camera as well,maybe Contax? This is a memory deep in my mind that might or might not be true. Good Luck
     
  4. I think it really just depends on what lens was came factory equipped on the camera. If the camera was released with a Rodenstock standard lens (50mm) fitted, then that camera can only accept Rodenstock accessory lenses. If it was originally equipped with a Schneider-Kreuznach standard lens, then it can only use the Schneider accessory lenses. However, it is possible that your lens has had the mount altered, but most likely you are trying to put a Rodenstock lens on a Retina that was made for the Schneider-Kreuznach lenses.
     
  5. Danny, I was under the impression the two mounts were "C" and "S". The C mount fits the Retina Reflex and some of the Range-finder cameras. The "S" mount fits the Reflex S, III, IV and the IIIC Range-finder. I also read, the Rodenstocks were sold in Europe and Schneider-Kreuznach lenses were sold in the US. Is it possible the US cameras have a different mount than their European counterparts?

    Michael "Could the Lens mount have been adapted to fit another camera?" That is my thinking, I've read about Retina lenses being modified to fit Voigtlander leaf-shutter cameras of the same vintage. I thought I read the process involves machining and the lens will still fit the Retina. This lens will not seat into the camera's lens mount and thus not "bayonet on".
     
  6. Danny, Thanks for the enlightenment. A Retina "S" mount camera that originally came with a Rodenstock 50mm? I don't see that happening, or finding one soon. The only "hits" on Rodenstock items, that I thought I could use, have been this lens and a Rodenstock 30 f/4 Eurygon. That's after about six months of searching. Thanks for your responses.
     
  7. Actually, there seems to be a Retina Reflex S on "the auction site" right now that has a Rodenstock 50mm f2.8 lens fitted. Even more oddly, it is in Europe! I guess this shows that the theory of Rodenstock lenses being for the U.S. Retinas and the Schneider lenses are for the European market doesn't hold as much water as many think.
     
  8. The retina reflex S, III and IV shared a lens mount with the IIIS rangefinder cameras. The entire lens is removed and replaced; rodenstock/schneider is NOT an issue with these cameras. The IIIC rangefinder had interchangeable front elements, in which case one had to match rodenstock or schneider, as appropriate, elements to the camera. The original (first version) retina reflex shared this system. Some, but not all, lenses for the reflex S,III,IV, coupled to the rangefinder on the IIIS; some lack the rangefinder cam. In particular lenses intended for the Instamatic Reflex used the same lens mount but lacked the rangefinder cam. Two thoughts: one, it's possible your lens was intended for the instamatic reflex - although I can't imagine why it wouldn't fit a reflex S. two: the lens mount for a Voigtlander Bessamatic was nearly identical - the lens mounts were designed by Deckel, who made the shutters. The lenses don't normally interchange between the Bessamatic and retina reflex. The difference is in one of the lobes - do a google search, one time I found a page that explained the difference, and how to machine one type of lens to fit the other camera. Are you certain your lens was intended for a retina and not a bessamatic?
     
  9. 1) The Retina S and the Bessamatic indeed have the very same lens mount. In both cases a small piece of metal was added in the lens bayonet, with the specific purpose of preventing cross-compatibility. This was done for commercial reasons. It is a relatively easy process to machine out this part. I've done it and now I can use my Retina lenses on my Bessamatic and the other way round. Of course, the lenses also remain compatible with the camera they were originally intended for.
    2) I've never heard of a Rotelar in a Bessamatic mount, and I doubt very very much whether such ever existed (certainly not with the name Retina on it!) You may have found a lens modified to be also used in a Bessamatic (as above), but as already said this should not affect installation on a Retina. You should perhaps try and make a close comparison between the mount in the Rotelar and another lens.
     
  10. In Europe at least Retina IIIc cameras were available with Schneider or Rodenstock lenses. Also earlier Retinas were sold with wide variety of lenses, even Kodak (if someone wanted). I have Retina IIIc of both manufacturers and their lenses do not fit machanically to wrong bodies. I would quess that something similar with later Retinas.

    Kerkko K.
     
  11. My fourth edition of Croy's "Retina Way", referring to folding Retinas, says you must use Schneider aux. lenses with Schneider base lenses and Heligon aux. lense with Heligon base lenses. My memory is that only Schneider lenses were sold on Retinas imported into the US by Kodak (EK prefix to camera serial numbers) and on Retinas sold in PX's and Ships Service stores overseas.I have also read here that for best results the serial number of the aux. lens should match the serial number of the base lens. I find that a little hard to believe however.
     
  12. "My fourth edition of Croy's "Retina Way", referring to folding Retinas, says you must use Schneider aux. lenses with Schneider base lenses and Heligon aux. lense with Heligon base lenses. I have also read here that for best results the serial number of the aux. lens should match the serial number of the base lens."

    That is exactly what Herr Dr. Croy and manufacturer's information is telling. Also it is easy to belive that each lense front and back element are a mached pair, like insert of every Hasselblar magazine still today. With understanding of tolerance system you get pretty good results. With maching pairs you get still better results but with higher cost and loosing interchangeability. Like already Mr. Henry Ford thought.

    Kerkko K.
     
  13. To clarify my reply when I talked about matching serial number "here" meant here on photonet, I don't think Croy mentions serial numbers.
     

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