Recommend 35mm SLR for "spare" classroom camera

A friend needs to purchase (with school $) a camera for high school

students who are in a photography class. The basics are that she

teaches deaf students and they would be offered use of the camera if

they wanted to take the class.

 

Requirements are fairly strait forward. Affordability and durability

are at a premium. Of course good image quality is important too.

 

* Full manual mode required

 

is the only real requirement

 

I could use any recommendations. I have her looking at bhphotovideo.

I never got a real solid answer on price, but she pointed out

the "special deals". The Pentax ZX-L (Kit) and the Nikon N65 (kit).

They were about $350.

 

For this type of situation what are your thoughts. Good deal? More

money = higher quality = break less?

 

I'd also be interested in the "kit/50 mm/zoom lens" thoughts or any

recommendations on what to get/not to get.

 

Your help is much appreciated.

 

Thanks

-Drew Engblom

Why not get a fuly manual Nikon or Pentax? A N65 is overkill if you are just going to use it in manual mode. The all manual cameras are generally more durable and the lenses cost less.

If all you want is manual mode, why buy an auto-everything camera? Instead of the Pentax ZX-L, take a look at the Pentax ZX-M. It is as close to totally manual as you can get on a reasonably-priced SLR, giving you manual focus with metered manual, shutter- and aperture-preferred exposure. B&H has it with the 50mm f2.0 lens for US$190 (plus shipping). It is as sturdy as any other "non-pro" SLR and is easy to learn and simple to use. And there are many K-mount lenses, used and new, available.

I'd suggest you look for a X series minolta. These are time tested and pros in the 80's used them(some still do). I just bought my first camera a Minolta X370s brand new with a brand new MD 28-70 3.5-4.8 lens and shot a few rolls .The result are great........it's even got aperture proirity and really bright viewfinder. Moreover it's available for 180 dollars brand new. For extra 100 bucks u can have a X700 body...brand new.

Now everyone knows how good , reliable and durable X700 is.It's a legend.

further , used minolta lenses are available cheap and they are in plenty.

 

.....for that price, you will never get any other camera (brand new) which is so affordable, reliable and has GREAT glass.

 

here [more money=high quality=break less] is not the correct equation. it is[ less money+high quality+no break for 20+ years+pro quality+features+........great pics ] is the true equation.

I would buy something that won't break when they drop it(and someone will!). I would go to the local camera store or repair shop and get something used or rebuilt that comes with a warranty. <p>

 

There are a dozen older cameras that would suit your purpose well. The benefit of these cameras is that they are mostly metal and are very simple. So the kids can learn the fundamentals and not be distracted by electronics. <p>

 

If your looking at around a $350 budget you could EASILY get a Nikon FM2 or FM. Other good choices are Olympus OM1, Pentax KX, Pentax MX, Pentax K1000. Heck for that kind of money you could get a couple fully rebuilt Pentax Spotmatics. All of these cameras above are very rugged and reliable. Probably more so than any new cameras in your budget. Good luck with your decision.

To the already excellent suggestions, I'd say to consider a Canon FTb or FTB-n (no real difference - the "n" model shows the shutter speed in the viewfinder, and there are some plastic pieces on it where there aren't on the FTb) and some basic primes.

 

These are tough, all mechanical cameras - a battery is only needed to operate the in-camera meter. It also has a mechanical self-timer and mirror lock-up.

 

 

Regards,

The Minolta X300-700 series bodies are bargains, as are Minolta MC/MD lenses. Avoid relics like old Canon FTbs, most Nikkormats, or Minolta SRT series bodies that need no-longer-available mercury batteries.Cameras without working meters are pretty much useless to students.

After teaching nature photography classes it seems in the 'new' inexpensive cameras most able to take a bit of abuse are either the various Pentax cameras or specifically the Minolta X700. Nikon, Canon and other Minolta cameras, although fully featured seem just too fragile. I personally don't like the newer Minolta to teach from because the f-stop info is on the camera body, not the lens, so it is a little harder to teach basics.

 

I personally agree with a lot of the posters that used cameras are generally a better option, and then there are a ton of choices.

Nothing further to discuss, absolutely go with the Nikon FM. They take every kind of lens ever made by Nikon, including the old non-AI lenses which can be found everywhere dirt cheap. they even work well with brand new D type AF lenses. Nikon lenses are higher quality than old Pentax lenses and are much easier to find than authentic Pentax lenses. If one cant be found I have had wonderful luck with Minolta X series and SRT 201's. There is a seller on Ebay named Titterington, I have purchased 3 cameras from him, all in top condition. He is a dealer from Kansas City, look for him.

I'll agree with the last post in regards to Nikon lenses being easier to find over their Pentax counterparts. But in suggesting Pentax I think most people including myself were of the train of thought that such a class might only need 50's. If that is the case than any above mention mechanical camera would do fine. But if the you would like to add an inexpensive wide angle and maybe a short tele of good quality I too would suggest Nikon. In fact I would really really suggest Nikon. I spent months looking for the "right" lenses for my Pentax's.

How about 5-10 used cameras? For $350 you shouldn't have too much trouble getting 5+ screw mount cameras. The older cameras didn't have much plastic. Obviously you run the risk of getting a lemon but you should easily get 3+ a CLA. Look at the non-hot name brands. Ricoh,Mamiya or I guess even the models they made for Sears.

 

The Mamiya I bought to throw in the car and forget about cost me $20. It needs a tune up but since we are talking kids you have to figure they'll drop any camera you give them. If not worse.

There are plenty of Pentax lenses on the market, at least in the US. If your budget is super tight you can also use screw mount lenses with a $20 adaptor. Thus you can get several lenses plus a camera and be under your $350 budget.

 

The ZX-L is quite a camera, by the way. It has a Depth of Field preview (lets you see exactly what will be in focus when you take the photo) an Infa Red Timer, useful to take self-photos or work with out a shutter release cord, glow-in-the-dark features and is a much more solidly built camera than the N65.

 

I don't know what lens they are currently pushing, but it is usually a 28-80mm fsomething to 5.6. Not bad, but certainly not the best optic in the world. I suspect for your class it will more than suffice.

nikon fm, fm2 or fg(they could go auto exposure on that and

these are a little cheaper but they may be less durable) plus

lens 35 f2.8 or 50 f2 and for fun a series e 100mm f2.8 (I think I

got the aperture right)

Not to be argumentative, but I would not want to add the confusion of stop down metering to these kids, as would be the case with an assortment of screwmount lenses or adapters. Chances are they'll never use another camera in the same fashion. And it would be really confusing if say they used a camera with a fully automatic 50mm, but then they have to stop down meter with another lens fitted via an adapter. Not to mention the "Class-has anyone seen the screw mount adapter?" factor. Keep It Simple. :)

Definitely go with one of the used manual cameras. They teach the basics and should outlive any of the plastic autofocus junk you can buy for new. Consider Nikon FM, Nikon FE, any Nikkormat, and the Pentax K1000.

 

The Pentax is probably the best value now, as you can find them on eBay with lens for about $120-$150.

First of all, the 625 Mercury Battery is NOT a problem. A 25-cent rubber O-ring in the chamber can allow just about ANY of these older classics to work GREAT with CHEAP, WIDELY AVAILABLE 675-size Zinc Air Hearing Aid batteries. Those batteries wear out fast, but they are DIRT CHEAP, and put out the correct voltage for the meters: 1.4 V is close enough to the 1.35 V PX625 that no re-calibration is needed. (a 2 month battery life for a 75 cent battery is a GOOD DEAL!)

 

2nd of all, MANUAL FOCUS cameras offer GREAT durability, image quality, and affordability, and make the best teaching vehicles.

 

That being said, here's my short list of GREAT student cameras, assuming that anything that uses the 625 battery gets the #9 Rubber O-ring in the chamber conversion treatment. EVERY ONE of these cameras can be gotten for under $200 with a 50mm lens!: Of the Fully Manual Metering class:

 

1) ANY Minolta SRT! Great ones can be found for WELL under $100 including lens on ebay, and the VERY BEST (a MINT SRT-102 or 202) will still cost less than $200 with a FAST f1.4 lens

 

2) Olympus OM-1 or OM-1n

 

3) Nikon FM

 

4) Canon AT-1 (I've had bad meter reliability with the FTb)

 

5) Pentax K-1000 or the very similar Pentax KM

(The Pentax MX is much better, but much rarer and more expensive)

 

If the option of adding automatic exposure control is desired, the list is:

 

1) Minolta X-570 or X-700

2) Nikon FE

3) Olympus OM-2 or OM-2n

4) Canon AE-1

 

 

In general, I recommend either a 50mm normal lens, or a roughly 28-90mm zoom from a good supplier as the first lens.

BTW for a budget of $350, I could sell you 2 fully working Minolta SRT-101s, both with 50mm lenses, plus a near mint condition Minolta Celtic 28mm lens and a 75-205mm Vivitar Telephoto Zoom, and an Electronic Flash Unit.

 

Each camera would be cleaned and modified to take the 675 Zinc-Air batteries, and would have the seals and Mirror Bumpers freshly replaced, AND have copies of the instruction manuals.

 

These cameras are as reliable as tanks, and, except for the light meter, they are completely functional WITHOUT batteries. As are the Nikon FM, Olympus OM-1, and Pentax K-1000, but those cameras would cost more.

You can buy a Rebel XS N camera kit for $300 at Best Buy <a href="http://www.bestbuy.com/Detail.asp?m=1581&cat=1589&scat=&e=11099224">here</a> (with free shipping).

<p>

I have an old Rebel X that is still going strong after about ten years of use and abuse. The Rebel came in two versions at the time. Rebel X had no pop-up flash. Rebel XS had a pop-up flash. The Rebel XS N is the updated version of the XS, offering a more refined body and E-TTL flash compatibility.

<p>

My old Rebel X is a testament to how durable and resiliant this all-plastic camera is. I have dropped it, knocked it, run it through heat and snow, as well as countless rolls of film, and it just keeps going and going. The body is light weight and resilient, thanks to its shock absorbant plastic body. To all those plastic naysayers out there, it's tough to beat the resilience, impact characteristics, and lightness of a well-design plastic body.

<p>

For high quality, reliability, a good deal, forward technological compatibility, manual controls as well as Av, Tv, P, and idiot modes, the Rebel XS N is a good choice. And you can go out to any Best Buy to play with it.

<p>

An even better deal is the Rebel G kit at Amazon for $284

 

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005PJYX/ref%3Dpd%5Fsbs%5Fp%5F3/103-2959208-2291842">here</a> (also with free shipping). It comes with tons of stuff! I just noticed it. As far as I know, the Rebel G and XS N are virtually identical, but the XS N is made specifically for sale at Best Buy.

<p>

The nice thing about the Rebels is that you get 9.5% partial metering with all of them. Most cameras at this level don't have partial metering. Usually they are all center-weighted metering and matrix metering. With an old manual focus camera, it will usually only be center-weighted metering.

I think it more important that each student have access to a full set of filters, than an endless assortment of lenses. This makes it important that you keep it simple and keep the varity of equipment down. This makes it a lot easier to maintain the equipment.

 

My photo instructor has recommended the new Nikon full manual, non auto camera. Minolta, Pentax or whatever known brand you chose is safe. But above all, keep it simple. Don't hand out expensive lenses until the students have demonstrated some degree of responsibility. Keep all equipment the same or your friend will be teaching different versions of the same material over and over.

 

It could be done on the cheap by buying each camera with a standard 50mm lens, a screw on close up "filter", a 2x tele converter, and a set of filters. This would give 1st year students all they need to learn the basics. Look into getting service contracts on the cameras.